Sorry, Kashmir Is Happy

Virendra

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@ A chauhan
He desribes how the stone pelting incidents are more fun and games by rowdy youth groups rather than some real "resistance" agains the Indian state.
Aha, so that shows the duplicity. How would a sane person make a call between foul cries "for fun" and genuine grievances if Kashmiris would take Army and law & order so lightly. Beating a jawan would seem fun too? We've seen that happen. Is it a joke for them? Why are they playing with fire when they complain of having sufffered so much already?
I think this daring comes from the realisation that Indian Army and more so the police and para military would be soft on them.

I would love to see if someone could show me this equation to have existed in PoK at any point of time. I hope you know what the neighbors do at signs of trouble on their part of this heaven? The likes of Musharraf employ the likes of Osama to sweep the region with a lashkar of Talibs and well to say it sweetly "do a mass clean up".

More mall, more movies and more industries. This will give the youth a sense of belongingness with India. But for that we need peace in the valley.
It will give them the sense of prosperity and fluent life. It has nothing to do with the sense of belongingness with India.
I don't think that the people with confused loyalties can be bought by just some malls and factories. Even if it did, would lack depth of real patriotism.
I would have been happier if they had first asked for kashmiri pandits to come back. Only then the fantasies of Kashmiri prosperity would have any meaning.

Regards,
Virendra
 
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ejazr

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@Virendra

I am not sure how that shows duplicity.

The HR violations incident was in the early 90s, the stone peltings are happening now in 2012. As I mentioned, the main theme is how the situation has improved. And the fact that the police arrested a couple of youth for damaging a transformer and that the "protest" was in relation to this criminal act shows how the situation has changed. It reiterates how Kashmiris have moved on and how the security profile of the state is vastly different from what it is potrayed by some so called anti-India Kashmiri activists in Europe and the US.

I guess it really depends on what perspective you have when you read the article but I can atleast tell you that Pakistanis won't be happy with what this article has to say and basically have called it "Indian propaganda" to white wash the situation in Kashmir.
 

Virendra

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I know but serious people don't create a fuss out of nothing, just for fun. They don't sound like people who've suffered and toiled.
They sound like idle toddlers who're looking for trouble without realizing the consequences of what they're doing.
And guess what will happen when any of them is dealt with, a huuuugee HR violation cry !!

You do something you're cursed, you don't and you're still a villain.
 

ejazr

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Well for what its worth, the bunch of youth stone pelting look like the section of kids looking for trouble, I don't get the impression from the article that they are being opressed or supprssed. And the fact that locals and Faesal Shah are corroborating this shows that even the local Kashmiris know that these group of kids are out there pelting stones and looking for trouble. Not some innocent kids "protesting Indian rule"
 

Ray

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ejazr,

Have you been to Kashmir?

If so, when was your latest visit?

I visited last year.

I will be going again now that one of my officer has got an important post wherein I can meet Govt officials as also the common man, including some old people who were my father's friends when he was posted there.
 
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A chauhan

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Yes the narration is objectionable and subtle in its bias towards Pakistan. It conveniently hides what started all this mess. It although sheds tears on what a man was supposedly forced to say but doesn't even mention of what the millions of kashmiri pandits were forced to do.
However I don't support the idea of deleting such threads from here. Instead such news should be posted here, scrutinized and its rots should be torn apart for the world to see. Atleast the ones browsing net who stumble here would know what the truth is.
Deleting such threads is counteractive to the best practices of our fraternity here at DFI.
Deceptive propaganda is not fought by looking the other way, but by meticuously and thoroughly debunking the myths that it sponsors.


Regards,
Virendra
You are correct!

@ A chauhan

The Ram Ram incident as the author points out is sourced from Shah Faesal, the IAS topper. He could be lying about it ofcourse, but I guess it means confirming with Shah Faesal if he actually said this story and if its really true.
And there have been cases of HR violations although these tend to be exagerated ofcourse. Any place where we quell insurgencies there is bound for this to happen. It happened in NE, it happened in Punjab and it should not be a surprise to know that it happened in Kashmir as well. If you have an article that says there has been no HR violations in Kashmir, then that would be biased.

At the same time, he talks about the militants and the lucrative business of their terrorism. He mentions that Shah Faesal's father had been killed by militants not by the Indian Army. He desribes how the stone pelting incidents are more fun and games by rowdy youth groups rather than some real "resistance" agains the Indian state.

To see conspiracy theories that the author supports the Pakistani pov in an article which is generally IMO a positive article from the Indian pov and shows that Indian Kashmiris are integrating with India would be an incorrect conclusion.
Being an IAS topper does not mean that he can't lie, rather it multiplies the possibilities of false anti-India or anti-IA propaganda by him.

It is possible that IA could have done some HR violations, yet they are not the reason behind the insurgency in J&K, but this article selectively points out the Indian part while being silent on the Pakistani part, which is highly objectionable.

To see conspiracy theories that the author supports the Pakistani pov in an article which is generally IMO a positive article from the Indian pov and shows that Indian Kashmiris are integrating with India would be an incorrect conclusion.
Ok! a positive article with a hidden silent anti-India campaign, i wont be surprised if the same author writes another essay after a week, on the same issue completely blaming India for insurgencies in J&K. I assert taking this article as a positive article will also be an incorrect conclusion !!.

Kashmiris integrating with India is a good development! but the author should have pointed out the correct reasons behind their integration with India, and not the forgiveness of Kashmiris.

@Virendra

I am not sure how that shows duplicity...

...I guess it really depends on what perspective you have when you read the article but I can atleast tell you that Pakistanis won't be happy with what this article has to say and basically have called it "Indian propaganda" to white wash the situation in Kashmir.
J&K is not a part of Pakistan and i doubt any Pakistani will criticize this essay, as it is fulfills their wish to blame Indian govt. and Army for insurgencies, although very slowly but it's happening in this essay, after all they are doing propaganda from 1948 with the same expectations.
 

ejazr

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^^^ Actually I did post it on a Pakistani forum and it was criticised by some Pakistanis as Indian propaganda and the thread even got removed mysteriously after a while, but that is besides the point here

In any case, I think I have made my point and I will leave it at that.
 
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Ray

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I would also like to say that nowhere in any country can you find 100% of the people satisfied with life.

If one read the Kashmiri history and the psyche, they love playing sides and for good reasons too.

Kashmiris have never had even 100 years of peace.

They have always been under some or the other ruler who were not 100% Kashmiri.

So, they have learnt how to be Great Survivors!

Read Lawrence's Valley of Kashmir.

I was sceptical, but my long tenure in Kashmir, as a child and as an officer in every rank has shown that Lawrence was ever so correct.
 
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Bhadra

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I would also like to say that nowhere in any country can you find 100% of the people satisfied with life.

If one read the Kashmiri history and the psyche, they love playing sides and for good reasons too.

Kashmiris have never had even 100 years of peace.

They have always been under some or the other ruler who were not 100% Kashmiri.

So, they have learnt how to be Great Survivors!

Read Lawrence's Valley of Kashmir.

I was sceptical, but my long tenure in Kashmir, as a child and as an officer in every rank has shown that Lawrence was ever so correct.
But That is a historical fact perticlary after the advent of Islam in Persia and then Afghanistan. Lwrence or No Lawrence. Unfortunately before advent of Islam, Kashmir vally was the center for Budhist assault on Hinduism under Mahayana as Kashmir was its craddle.

The Kasmiri elites are stark oportunists and existentailists.
 

A chauhan

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^^^ Actually I did post it on a Pakistani forum and it was criticised by some Pakistanis as Indian propaganda and the thread even got removed mysteriously after a while, but that is besides the point here

In any case, I think I have made my point and I will leave it at that.
Then those Pakistanis are unhappy with the later part which tells that Kashmiris prefer India, while we Indians are unhappy with the first part which falsely blames Indian govt. and IA for insurgencies.

This is what i am trying to say from my very first post, remove the false part and i'll praise the essay, remove the true part and Pakistanis will praise it.
 

amitkriit

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According to me me a separatist working against the interests of my country is less worthy than a cockroach, doesn't matter whether he carries a gun or not. He deserves to be killed, method doesn't matter.
 

Bhadra

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Kashmir is stuck up on two nation theory.
Indians believe that two nation theory is creation of The Muslim elitist Jamindars who thought / think they can not coexist with Hindu majority and accept Hindu rule having ruled India for 400 years. They created Pakistan. For them Kashmir being Muslim majority but being part of India is negeation of their theory or it would falsify theor reason for creation of Pakistan. The idea also appeals to the fundamentalists of Kashmir for whom Islam is above everything else.

On the contrary, Indians wish to hold on to Kashmir almost for the same reason, that India is secular nation where a Muslim majority state can coexist with other Hindu majority states. It is an Indian constitutional idea and ideal and no one would wish it to fail.

Is not that a great dilemma for Kashmiries. For them the only solution of the problem is death of an idea called Pakistan as the safe place for Islam. If Pakistan gets divided or destroyed they would have no ideal to look upto.

Those who wish well to Kashmir must look forwards to destruction of that theocratic state called Pakistan. Hard choices have no options.
 

drkrn

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why didn't the then king sign instrument of accession .had he done it before independence there wouldn't have been these problems.
 

drkrn

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why didn't the then king sign instrument of accession before declaration of independence .had he done it before independence there wouldn't have been these problems.
 

Contract Killer

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Keep on developing the state with education, infrastructure, investment, Jobs etc etc. And all this Separatism crap will be left behind.
 

peacecracker

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Any information of demographics of Kashmiris(valley) staying in various parts of India? In Which City they are highest in numbers?

My Question is, These Kashmiris must be knowing Muslims in India are living without any fear or persecution?
 

The Messiah

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This article is tilted more towards India than pakistan.

Evil govt remark is about how kashmiri elite and those outside view govt.
 

ejazr

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Any information of demographics of Kashmiris(valley) staying in various parts of India? In Which City they are highest in numbers?

My Question is, These Kashmiris must be knowing Muslims in India are living without any fear or persecution?
We have a thread that is dedicated to tracking public opinion on Kashmir that will clear up a lot of myths surrounding this issue

You can check it out here
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...17-tracking-public-opinion-jammu-kashmir.html
 

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