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hey Iran is a Jahail according to the Pakistanis as they are shias remember ? another H&D Policy
Pakistan political discussions
- Thread starter A.V.
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Sandrocottas
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Will disintegration of pakistan be beneficial to India?
Dear indians,
I get irritated by constantly hearing on TV that it is in india's interest that pakistan be disintegrated.
I am of the opposite opinion due to following reasons and i request my dear forum members to debate the same.
A) Anyway organisations like LeT are already hell bent on creating terrroist incidents in Indian. A taliban ruled pakistan will be only a little worse. We Indians have to take proactive steps ourselves to make India secure from terroist strikes like how there are no terrorist incidents in usa after 9/11. Hence, instead of lamenting pakistan's fate, our destiny is in our hand.
B) Thakn god, we have a scular congress led government in power ( please do not flame me. There are some congress policies which i do not like). But A secular government like congress gives hope to minorities and insulates everyone from evil designs of our neighbours.
C) In power, Taliban may not like to blow their chances by nuking india. But ,they shall be definitely interested in selling nuclear weapons to muslim states. This shall be a direct headache to USA and Israel and not to India.
D) A fragmented paksitan will definitely put cold water on the passions of kashmiris. They will realise that india is the only stable country and might think of ways to come closer to India.
E) A fragmented apskistan will be under direct control of USA and organisations like Let will close down.
F) A fragmented pakistan after a few months of pomp and rhetoric will slowly reconcile to friendship will india as their resources will diminish further.
G) India will be able to reach out to Afghanistan and oil economies of central asia based on transit agreements with smaller balochistan and sindhudesh..
I request forum members to please debate the above point of view.
Dear indians,
I get irritated by constantly hearing on TV that it is in india's interest that pakistan be disintegrated.
I am of the opposite opinion due to following reasons and i request my dear forum members to debate the same.
A) Anyway organisations like LeT are already hell bent on creating terrroist incidents in Indian. A taliban ruled pakistan will be only a little worse. We Indians have to take proactive steps ourselves to make India secure from terroist strikes like how there are no terrorist incidents in usa after 9/11. Hence, instead of lamenting pakistan's fate, our destiny is in our hand.
B) Thakn god, we have a scular congress led government in power ( please do not flame me. There are some congress policies which i do not like). But A secular government like congress gives hope to minorities and insulates everyone from evil designs of our neighbours.
C) In power, Taliban may not like to blow their chances by nuking india. But ,they shall be definitely interested in selling nuclear weapons to muslim states. This shall be a direct headache to USA and Israel and not to India.
D) A fragmented paksitan will definitely put cold water on the passions of kashmiris. They will realise that india is the only stable country and might think of ways to come closer to India.
E) A fragmented apskistan will be under direct control of USA and organisations like Let will close down.
F) A fragmented pakistan after a few months of pomp and rhetoric will slowly reconcile to friendship will india as their resources will diminish further.
G) India will be able to reach out to Afghanistan and oil economies of central asia based on transit agreements with smaller balochistan and sindhudesh..
I request forum members to please debate the above point of view.
Sandrocottas
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Dear forum members.
Correction in above post.
I get irritated by constantly hearing on TV that it is in india's interest that pakistan NOT be disintegrated.
Correction in above post.
I get irritated by constantly hearing on TV that it is in india's interest that pakistan NOT be disintegrated.
p2prada
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There is an EDIT button on the bottom right of your post. You can make corrections there.
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I think this disintegration is only a matter of time now. We need to prepare for the day when we are dealing with a hostile but cut to size state of rump Punjab, friendly Sindh and Baloch and a Pushtunistan that is looking towards Afghanistan.
I don't think it will be any worse than it is now. May be a bit more chaotic for a time but good for all of us.
The West Punjabis will not be of any use to anyone in that case, a landlocked state depending of the goodwill of Sindhudesh (friendly to India) for sea access, India for their water and much of their trade and constantly fearful of the tribal hordes coming from the Northwest.
They deserve every bit of that fate!
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Not easy, given the demographics of India, vast coast line and boundaries adjoining hostile neighbors. All we can do is, to take measures to increase and improve our internal security forces and better intelligence networks both internal and external. Despite all this, there is no guarantee that attacks wont happen, but surely they will be decreased by several folds.
Secular or non-secular govt. does not come into the question as long as Pakistan exports the terrorism.
Taliban will never get the chance to lay its hands on nukes. Pakistan will be made nuke nude in event of Taliban taking over Pakistan completely by western countries.
There is no passion in average Kashmiris for secession, it is the separatists backed by Pakistan that stoke these inflamed passions. They will come closer to India, slowly but surely.
Difficult to tell at this moment. Balochs and Sindhis will favor India while NWFP, FATA will be completely independent and Punjab might be dependent on America since they will be a land locked place.
Definetely, not as Pakistan but as independent smaller countries.
That is the biggest advantage of dismantling Paksitan.
J
JattDaDanda
Guest
India should send some special assasins to take care of Hafiz Sayeed , Dawood Ibrahim and other little stooges who are trying to spread there terror in India. This is a best time to infiltrate and do the dirty work the dirty way.
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Pakistan 'A STATE' not a NATION
videos posted on you tube.
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 1
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 2
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 2
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 4
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 5
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 6
videos posted on you tube.
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 1
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 2
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 2
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 4
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 5
YouTube - Tariq Ali on Pakistan - 6
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Its like "Bandar ke haath me hathoda".
They have gone berserk with the stolen nukes and missiles, not knowing what to do and crying for attention and H&D. The trouble is no one thinks they have any H&D and no one pays any attention unless they threaten self destruction yet again and beg the world to save it from itself.
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15th they live in the 12th century AD i have always maintained that The pakistanis establishment is a bunch of Zia ul haq Juniors with a Twisted mind and a much more twisted soul they are the prefect study for monsters
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Kidnappings for ransom spike in Pakistan
By NAHAL TOOSI – 7 hours ago
KARACHI, Pakistan (AP) — The three gunmen forced the car carrying the Hindu filmmaker to stop along the bumpy street, then injected him and his driver with a sedative. The driver woke up a few hours later. The filmmaker was gone.
Six months later, in April, Satish Anand was recovered in Bannu in northwest Pakistan, according to an official involved in negotiating for his release. He is one of the most prominent Pakistanis yet to be abducted, and militants are suspected.
The rise in kidnappings comes as a floundering economy leads more people to commit crime in this Muslim-majority country of 170 million people. It's also a result of the overall erosion of security as Pakistan faces spreading Islamist militancy. Criminals are suspected in most kidnappings, but the Taliban and other militant groups are thought to earn a slice of the money — possibly millions of dollars, officials say.
Police say militants and criminals are hard to separate, making it difficult to trace the money obtained through ransoms. Some criminals call themselves Taliban to inject more fear into negotiations, while others work in cahoots with militant groups.
"There's a nexus between these miscreants, these militants, and the criminals," said Malik Naveed Khan, top police official for the North West Frontier Province. "The police do not have enough resources to fight militancy and crime at the same time."
Although there have been some high-profile kidnappings of foreigners, including the eventually recovered American U.N. employee John Solecki, most abductions target Pakistanis.
The kidnapping wave is especially acute in Peshawar and Karachi, two major cities that have long been magnets for militants.
Peshawar is the main town in Pakistan's northwest, a region along the Afghan border that is most troubled by the insurgency. Businessmen and entertainers are favorite targets.
The number of kidnapping for ransom cases registered in the North West Frontier Province has risen from 57 in 2006 to 147 in 2008, police said. So far this year, 71 such cases have been recorded in the region of more than 20 million residents.
Last year, a 27-year-old male model from Peshawar decided things had gotten so tense that he started to carry a pistol to protect himself. It came in handy months later, when three men grabbed him and shoved him into a car.
"I was just like, 'What's happening?'" he recounted to The Associated Press, his eyes welling with tears. "At first, I was just blank. Then I realized I had my gun. I pulled it out, put it at the back of the driver's head and threatened to blow a hole in it."
The men quickly pushed him out of the car. He asked that the AP not publish his name due to security fears, and has since left the frontier city.
The southern port city of Karachi is also a prime hunting ground for kidnapping rings because it is home to many of the business elite. It is Pakistan's most populous city, with more than 16 million people.
The Citizens Police Liaison Committee, a well-established and largely volunteer-run organization that works with police to retrieve abductees, said the number of kidnappings for ransom in 2008 in the city was 92, up from 64 the previous year. In 2006, the figure was just 28.
In any case, official statistics are probably an undercount. Many families don't file complaints due to threats by the kidnappers. Sharfuddin Memon, the head of the committee, gave the account of the kidnapping of the filmmaker, Anand, who is not speaking to the media.
An intelligence memo obtained by the AP warned of a growing Taliban presence in Karachi. It said many militants use the hub as a primary base for fundraising through illegal activities, including kidnapping for ransom.
The sums demanded can run into the millions of dollars, though the captors often settle for less. In one recent case, a kidnapping ring was demanding $2.5 million. The victim was recovered by security forces, and said he'd been kept in chains that turned so hot in the sun they burned his skin.
In April, a 21-year-old Karachi man belonging to a family involved in henna manufacturing was snatched.
He was at a factory when four armed men showed up, demanded him by name and whisked him away. Then they called his family and threatened to kill him unless relatives paid a sum they couldn't afford.
Days later, his father was still in shock.
"I am trying to stay strong. He is my only son!" the 51-year-old patriarch told AP. He asked that his son's and family's name be kept confidential to avoid harming ongoing negotiations for his release.
While well-armed, organized gangs are often behind the long-term abductions, "short-term" kidnappings also are up, said Zubair Motiwala, a former president of the Karachi Chamber of Commerce and Industry. In such kidnappings, the abductors typically grab someone and drive them around in a vehicle for a few hours while negotiating with relatives. Motiwala said he knows at least eight people taken captive in the past four years.
Such kidnappings are probably fueled by an economy in such bad shape that it recently received a $7.6 billion bailout from the International Monetary Fund. The economy has recently shown some signs of stabilizing.
But it's a vicious cycle. The security situation puts off would-be foreign investors, adding to the economic struggles that are fueling crime in the first place.
It doesn't help that Pakistan's government institutions, especially the under-equipped, undermanned and corruption-riddled police, are already weak. The growing militant movements target security forces and further chip away at people's confidence in the government's ability to protect them.
Many Pakistanis have begun to arm themselves for security. Others have turned to bodyguards and upgraded protection around their homes. Many try to keep a low profile and restrict their movements, even varying the routes they take.
The militants who grabbed the 21-year-old Karachi man in April have repeatedly threatened to kill him if the family doesn't pay up, but have also extended their deadlines. The victim's father was desperate for the militants to come to terms.
"I request that they have mercy in the name of God," he said.
Associated Press writers Ashraf Khan in Karachi and Babar Dogar in Lahore contributed to this report.
The Associated Press: Kidnappings for ransom spike in Pakistan
By NAHAL TOOSI – 7 hours ago
KARACHI, Pakistan (AP) — The three gunmen forced the car carrying the Hindu filmmaker to stop along the bumpy street, then injected him and his driver with a sedative. The driver woke up a few hours later. The filmmaker was gone.
Six months later, in April, Satish Anand was recovered in Bannu in northwest Pakistan, according to an official involved in negotiating for his release. He is one of the most prominent Pakistanis yet to be abducted, and militants are suspected.
The rise in kidnappings comes as a floundering economy leads more people to commit crime in this Muslim-majority country of 170 million people. It's also a result of the overall erosion of security as Pakistan faces spreading Islamist militancy. Criminals are suspected in most kidnappings, but the Taliban and other militant groups are thought to earn a slice of the money — possibly millions of dollars, officials say.
Police say militants and criminals are hard to separate, making it difficult to trace the money obtained through ransoms. Some criminals call themselves Taliban to inject more fear into negotiations, while others work in cahoots with militant groups.
"There's a nexus between these miscreants, these militants, and the criminals," said Malik Naveed Khan, top police official for the North West Frontier Province. "The police do not have enough resources to fight militancy and crime at the same time."
Although there have been some high-profile kidnappings of foreigners, including the eventually recovered American U.N. employee John Solecki, most abductions target Pakistanis.
The kidnapping wave is especially acute in Peshawar and Karachi, two major cities that have long been magnets for militants.
Peshawar is the main town in Pakistan's northwest, a region along the Afghan border that is most troubled by the insurgency. Businessmen and entertainers are favorite targets.
The number of kidnapping for ransom cases registered in the North West Frontier Province has risen from 57 in 2006 to 147 in 2008, police said. So far this year, 71 such cases have been recorded in the region of more than 20 million residents.
Last year, a 27-year-old male model from Peshawar decided things had gotten so tense that he started to carry a pistol to protect himself. It came in handy months later, when three men grabbed him and shoved him into a car.
"I was just like, 'What's happening?'" he recounted to The Associated Press, his eyes welling with tears. "At first, I was just blank. Then I realized I had my gun. I pulled it out, put it at the back of the driver's head and threatened to blow a hole in it."
The men quickly pushed him out of the car. He asked that the AP not publish his name due to security fears, and has since left the frontier city.
The southern port city of Karachi is also a prime hunting ground for kidnapping rings because it is home to many of the business elite. It is Pakistan's most populous city, with more than 16 million people.
The Citizens Police Liaison Committee, a well-established and largely volunteer-run organization that works with police to retrieve abductees, said the number of kidnappings for ransom in 2008 in the city was 92, up from 64 the previous year. In 2006, the figure was just 28.
In any case, official statistics are probably an undercount. Many families don't file complaints due to threats by the kidnappers. Sharfuddin Memon, the head of the committee, gave the account of the kidnapping of the filmmaker, Anand, who is not speaking to the media.
An intelligence memo obtained by the AP warned of a growing Taliban presence in Karachi. It said many militants use the hub as a primary base for fundraising through illegal activities, including kidnapping for ransom.
The sums demanded can run into the millions of dollars, though the captors often settle for less. In one recent case, a kidnapping ring was demanding $2.5 million. The victim was recovered by security forces, and said he'd been kept in chains that turned so hot in the sun they burned his skin.
In April, a 21-year-old Karachi man belonging to a family involved in henna manufacturing was snatched.
He was at a factory when four armed men showed up, demanded him by name and whisked him away. Then they called his family and threatened to kill him unless relatives paid a sum they couldn't afford.
Days later, his father was still in shock.
"I am trying to stay strong. He is my only son!" the 51-year-old patriarch told AP. He asked that his son's and family's name be kept confidential to avoid harming ongoing negotiations for his release.
While well-armed, organized gangs are often behind the long-term abductions, "short-term" kidnappings also are up, said Zubair Motiwala, a former president of the Karachi Chamber of Commerce and Industry. In such kidnappings, the abductors typically grab someone and drive them around in a vehicle for a few hours while negotiating with relatives. Motiwala said he knows at least eight people taken captive in the past four years.
Such kidnappings are probably fueled by an economy in such bad shape that it recently received a $7.6 billion bailout from the International Monetary Fund. The economy has recently shown some signs of stabilizing.
But it's a vicious cycle. The security situation puts off would-be foreign investors, adding to the economic struggles that are fueling crime in the first place.
It doesn't help that Pakistan's government institutions, especially the under-equipped, undermanned and corruption-riddled police, are already weak. The growing militant movements target security forces and further chip away at people's confidence in the government's ability to protect them.
Many Pakistanis have begun to arm themselves for security. Others have turned to bodyguards and upgraded protection around their homes. Many try to keep a low profile and restrict their movements, even varying the routes they take.
The militants who grabbed the 21-year-old Karachi man in April have repeatedly threatened to kill him if the family doesn't pay up, but have also extended their deadlines. The victim's father was desperate for the militants to come to terms.
"I request that they have mercy in the name of God," he said.
Associated Press writers Ashraf Khan in Karachi and Babar Dogar in Lahore contributed to this report.
The Associated Press: Kidnappings for ransom spike in Pakistan
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This is a video from my friend KashifKhan, a lad from Lahore who now resides in the United States and runs a private firm. To quote ad verbatim, "it is a shocking exposé of Pakistan Army's treason in FATA areas of the North West Frontier Province (NWFP) by Pak investigative journalist Hamid Mir before the onset of "all-out war" against Taliban in April 2009. The Pak Army was waging a fake war by targeting civilian areas and studiously avoiding Taliban and Al-Qaeda strongholds." I leave you to make up your own minds:
YouTube - Pre-Swat Taliban War: Army Treason
YouTube - Pre-Swat Taliban War: Army Treason
