Pakistan, Caste and dilemma of quislings

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

Turkic peoples
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples

........ As racial purity has never been a Turkic membership criterion, many vastly differing ethnic groups have throughout history become part of the Turkic peoples through language shift, acculturation, adoption and religious conversion............

Most of us probably have certain image in mind that Turks were some homogeneous pure aryan fair blue eyed race. Its kind of like thinking of 19th-20th century Ganga-Jamuni Urdu as some ancient pristine pure language.

 

[dhananjay1]

Turkic peoples
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples


Most of us probably have certain image in mind that Turks were some homogeneous pure aryan fair blue eyed race. Its kind of like thinking of 19th-20th century Ganga-Jamuni Urdu as some ancient pristine pure language.

Never heard of blue eyed Turk stereotype. Turks looked liked central asians before marrying local women.

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

Never heard of blue eyed Turk stereotype. Turks looked liked central asians before marrying local women.

Sorry for the blue eyes. thoda zyada gora ho gaya...

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

I was visiting Pakistani forum and it seems the 'ancient pakistan' kind of internet tribe is slowly increasing. These are usually small number of elite young or at least Post independence born generation men usually with a relative in military (and hence mostly punjabi). They are trying to create new narrative (pakistani identity is a narrative still under development. It is a dynamic process you can observe unfolding). So far mostly they are lone wolfs struggling with their individual identity crisis, active on internet forums and social media.

https://m.facebook.com/AncientPakistan.pk/

They are inventing new phrases and repeatedly using it on internet hoping to make it mainstream (e.g. Gangadesh for India, children of the indus, indus nationalist).

These man-child kind of people are supporter of terrorist army and jihad in kashmir like any other pakistani jihadi, but they themselves are usually not religious.

An example of their discussions :

....Does this imply that there is a possibly that Brahamins of India are populations with the "Pakistani" genetic component who migrated through the subcontinent when the climate changed in modern day Pakistan? Some migrated East while some stayed, likely with a reduced population due to reduced carrying capacity of the land. Population then rebounded when climate conditions improved.

It adds credibility to Pakistan being the inheritor of the IVC and its decedents still living in Pakistan today with a portion of the ancient population dispersed in the nation state of India as Brahmans who mixed with the local population........

From what we can see, North Indian populations are indistinguishable from South Indian populations, who are Dravidian. This means that the current North Indian population are descendants of the original Ganga inhabitants, and hence Dravidian as well. This then obviously means that the Bharatas tribe and there allies must have merged into the local Ganga culture and peoples.

It's this merging which formed what we call Puranic Hinduism or Brahmanism and out of this Vishnu, a Ganga god.

....I went abroad to study. I had been taught all my life about this Ummah and how Muslims support one another.

Yeah...then I saw the world.....

And Ramayana was written where exactly? Lahore was never part of the Ganga cultural circle. Punjab and Sindh were VEDIC territories and considered Dasyuvarta (North India) off limits.

Similarly, you folks called the Indus Valley as "Vahika Desa" and called us "Mlecha".

So clearly there was a conflict between the two groups.

Hence, Vedic society had no real caste system. This was an invention in the Ganga.

But, if this chain of thoughts is continued logically too far, it can lead to dangerous conclusions:

~MOVING FORWARD~
To use the Two-Nation Theory (as it's presently defined) to defend Pakistan's existence is futile. The movement for Pakistan achieved its objective in 1947...now we need to move on. We don't have a non-Muslim majority threatening Muslims anymore, so we cant use the two-nation theory for our internal challenges. Pakistan needs to celebrate its Indus culture and long celebrated Indus history of acceptance and tolerance and truly form into a united multi-ethnic nation, rather than this "Islamic Republic" which we are being forced fed. This is why I believe the two-nation theory should be redefined to the cultural two nation theory.

Which can make some others feel insecure:

division is only due to religion.if culture is reason then culture of our all four provinces punjab sindh balochistan and kpk is different and with this cultural logic each province will demand independent separate country

Don't let racism dilute our Imaan.

 

[ezsasa]

I was visiting Pakistani forum and it seems the 'ancient pakistan' kind of internet tribe is slowly increasing. These are usually small number of elite young or at least Post independence born generation men usually with a relative in military (and hence mostly punjabi). They are trying to create new narrative (pakistani identity is a narrative still under development. It is a dynamic process you can observe unfolding). So far mostly they are lone wolfs struggling with their individual identity crisis, active on internet forums and social media.

https://m.facebook.com/AncientPakistan.pk/

They are inventing new phrases and repeatedly using it on internet hoping to make it mainstream (e.g. Gangadesh for India, children of the indus, indus nationalist).
View attachment 24849

These man-child kind of people are supporter of terrorist army and jihad in kashmir like any other pakistani jihadi, but they themselves are usually not religious.

An example of their discussions :











But, if this chain of thoughts is continued logically too far, it can lead to dangerous conclusions:



Which can make some others feel insecure:

at some point somebody will ask them, if this means they were not muslims since the beginning as they are led to believe in their text books. then we can say, if your forefathers were not muslims you could always do a ghar wapsi.

 

[indus]

at some point somebody will ask them, if this means they were not muslims since the beginning as they are led to believe in their text books. then we can say, if your forefathers were not muslims you could always do a ghar wapsi.

Let them invent as many stories as possible. Fact remains they are offsprings of the raped and converted on point of sword. But I m more interested if these terminologies find their way into Indian SM. Indian media and left liberal folk are quick to adopt such terms and proliferate in our country. Happened with NotInMyName and KisanLongMarch.

 

[Khalsa_Panth]

Fact remains they exist only as long as US sponsorship remains, so who cares?

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

at some point somebody will ask them, if this means they were not muslims since the beginning as they are led to believe in their text books. then we can say, if your forefathers were not muslims you could always do a ghar wapsi.

Which church will do that and what will be their caste status after that? They would need a King or a Mehdi, but Allah has stopped sending Avatars and Gurus since long time.

Fact remains they exist only as long as US sponsorship remains, so who cares?

Can converting to Protestant Christianity help continue US sponsorship?

 

[indus]

Since discussion is going on about caste quislings a question popped into my mind. It may sound stupid but I want to know whether Evangelists are active in Pakistan too. I mean they too are an ethnic divided society similar to distant cousins Indians. Christ shld have had a free run in Pakistan by now. Joshua is listening or not???

 

[Raweg]

Since discussion is going on about caste quislings a question popped into my mind. It may sound stupid but I want to know whether Evangelists are active in Pakistan too. I mean they too are an ethnic divided society similar to distant cousins Indians. Christ shld have had a free run in Pakistan by now. Joshua is listening or not???

In india Christ & Allah works with unity against hindus. one have votebank other have highly influential international lobby so combo makes it deadly.
In pak Christ is alone so Allah tie him on cross if he moves any left or right

 

[Kazah]

I was visiting Pakistani forum and it seems the 'ancient pakistan' kind of internet tribe is slowly increasing. These are usually small number of elite young or at least Post independence born generation men usually with a relative in military (and hence mostly punjabi). They are trying to create new narrative (pakistani identity is a narrative still under development. It is a dynamic process you can observe unfolding). So far mostly they are lone wolfs struggling with their individual identity crisis, active on internet forums and social media.

https://m.facebook.com/AncientPakistan.pk/

They are inventing new phrases and repeatedly using it on internet hoping to make it mainstream (e.g. Gangadesh for India, children of the indus, indus nationalist).
View attachment 24849

These man-child kind of people are supporter of terrorist army and jihad in kashmir like any other pakistani jihadi, but they themselves are usually not religious.

An example of their discussions :











But, if this chain of thoughts is continued logically too far, it can lead to dangerous conclusions:



Which can make some others feel insecure:

a few days back a paki was bragging to a gora on fb that his ancestors stopped alexander from invading greater pakistan ...

FML

 

[dhananjay1]

Since discussion is going on about caste quislings a question popped into my mind. It may sound stupid but I want to know whether Evangelists are active in Pakistan too. I mean they too are an ethnic divided society similar to distant cousins Indians. Christ shld have had a free run in Pakistan by now. Joshua is listening or not???

Missionaries were active during British period, now they are not because otherwise they would be despatched to hell by momins. Paki Punjab now has more christians than Hindus and Sikhs combined. All converted from the lowest Chura caste during British period.

 

[Mikesingh]

Lies taught through pakistan textbooks

1. Pakistani school curriculum witnessed some major changes during the General Zia-ul- haq regime.  Pakistani curriculum teaches history in Urdu, Islamic Studies, Pakistan Studies, English, and even in Physics, Mathematics and Chemistry.  The emphasis on the Islamic history which is taught in every other subject. There are chapters dedicated to the life of prophet Muhammed and his companions in English, Urdu, and Islamiat (Islamic Studies). In the science subjects, there are chapters about the contributions of Muslim scientists in the development of modern science.
2. The emphasis of curriculum is not to mention much about Pakistan's cultural heritage. Instead it attempts to pretend that Pakistan's cultural association is with the Arab world.  This curriculum totally ignores the fact that Pakistan has many non- muslim minorities living in the country. Hence students are not introduced to other cultures and there is no concept of cultural harmony, tolerance and other social factors. In fact, even the muslim history is taught from a Sunni point of view.
3. Excluding and manipulating historical periods  The most blatant lie in textbook accounts of Pakistan’s history is by virtue of omission, which is in effect the denial of our multicultural, multi-ethnic and multi-religious past. It is a common complaint that Pakistan’s history is taught as if it began with the conquest of Sindh by the Umayyad army, led by the young General, Muhammad bin Qasim in 711 AD.  Most textbooks in Sindh at least do mention Mohenjo-Daro and the Indus Valley civilization, but it is not discussed in a meaningful way and there is no discussion about its extent and culture. Important periods and events during subsequent centuries are also skimmed over, like the Aryan civilization which introduced its powerful social system and epic poetry (Mahabharata in which Sindh and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa play important roles), the Brahmin religion, a thousand years of Buddhism with its universities and the Gandharan civilization which was spread throughout present day Pakistan.
4.  No students of Pakistani schools can tell us that Pakistan was once part of the empires of Cyrus the Great and Darius of the Achaemenid Dynasty and later of the Sassanian Empire with the legendary rule of Naushirwan, “the Just”. Similarly, hardly anyone would be aware that Asoka whose capital was in Pataliputra in the east of the subcontinent also counted Sindh, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Punjab as part of his domain.
5. The result of these omissions is disastrous on the minds of the youth in Pakistan. Instead of seeing themselves as heirs of many civilizations, they acquire a narrow, one- dimensional view of the world. This is contradicted by what they subsequently see in this global world of information technology and shared knowledge. That this is also in direct contravention of Islamic teachings does not occur to the perpetrators of a lopsided curriculum in our schools.
6. The first assertion in the Holy Quran is Iqra bi Ism I Rabik [and no restrictions are put on the acquisition of knowledge].  Instead, we have bans on books, digital platforms such as YouTube and even newspapers in this Islamic Republic of Pakistan.  — Hamida Khuhro is a historian and former education minister for Sindh
7. Wars with India  The most blatant lies in Pakistani history textbooks are about the events that are still in our living memory. Among the many examples, the three given below are about the wars of 1965 and 1971, and the partition carnage of 1947. The reason for the falsehood lies in our distorted view of nationalism. Rather than let children learn from our historical mistakes, we show them a false picture. Thus we are doomed to repeat the mistakes generation after generation.  The following excerpt regarding the 1965 war is taken from fifth grade reading material published by the NWFP Textbook Board, Peshawar in 2002 — “The Pakistan Army conquered several areas of India, and when India was at the verge of being defeated she ran to the United Nations to beg for a cease-fire. Magnanimously, thereafter, Pakistan returned all the conquered territories to India.”
8. The Punjab Textbook Board published the following text on the causes for the separation of East Pakistan in 1993 for secondary classes — “There were a large number of Hindus in East Pakistan. They had never truly accepted Pakistan. A large number of them were teachers in schools and colleges.  They continued creating a negative impression among students. No importance was attached to explaining the ideology of Pakistan to the younger generation.  The Hindus sent a substantial part of their earnings to Bharat, thus adversely affecting the economy of the province. Some political leaders encouraged provincialism for selfish gains. They went around depicting the central Government and (the then) West Pakistan as enemy and exploiter. Political aims were thus achieved at the cost of national unity.”
9. “While the Muslims provided all sorts of help to those non-Muslims desiring to leave Pakistan [during partition], people of India committed atrocities against Muslims trying to migrate to Pakistan. They would attack the buses, trucks and trains carrying the Muslim refugees and murder and loot them.” The latter except was taken from an intermediate classes textbook — Civics of Pakistan, 2000.  Some more examples of totally contorted and misleading, yet ingenious and amusing, narrations of the history of Pakistan can be extracted from a single text, A Textbook of Pakistan Studies by M D Zafar.  “Pakistan came to be established for the first time when the Arabs led by Muhammad bin Qasim occupied Sindh and Multan. Pakistan under the Arabs comprised the Lower Indus Valley.”  “During the 11th century the Ghaznavid Empire comprised what is now Pakistan and Afghanistan. During the 12th century the Ghaznavids lost Afghanistan and their rule came to be confined to Pakistan”.
10. “By the 13th century Pakistan had spread to include the whole of Northern India and Bengal. Under the Khiljis Pakistan moved further South to include a greater part of Central India and the Deccan”.  “During the 16th century, ‘Hindustan’ disappeared and was completely absorbed in ‘Pakistan”.  “Shah Waliullah appealed to Ahmad Shah Durrani of Afghanistan and ‘Pakistan’ to come to the rescue of the Muslims of Mughal India, and save them from the tyrannies of the Marhattas…”  “In the Pakistan territories where a Sikh state had come to be established, the Muslims were denied the freedom of religion.”  “Thus by the middle of the 19th century both Pakistan and Hindustan ceased to exist; instead British India came into being. Although Pakistan was created in August 1947, yet except for its name, the present-day Pakistan has existed, as a more or less single entity for centuries. — A H Nayyar is a physicist and retired professor. He co-edited an SDPI report titled “The Subtle Subversion: The State of Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan.
11. This is how history is taught at Pakistani schools and how beautifully it is distorted to promote an engineered ideology promoted by Zia-ul-Haq's regime. Studying the distortion and the design of curriculum will also help one understand Pakistan's interests in Afghanistan and Pakistan's relation with other countries and cultures. It will also help you understand the ideological conflicts with in the country.  Above aside, about half of Pakistan studies concentrates on teaching you about the actual land - which now, after a decade and a half of reading other books, I can summarize a few years of classes into: Pakistan has different soils in different regions, the rainfall varies, and there be mountains in the north and deserts to the west and east!

https://www.slideshare.net/farhanSyed112/lie-taught-through-pakistan-textbooks

 

[ezsasa]

Since discussion is going on about caste quislings a question popped into my mind. It may sound stupid but I want to know whether Evangelists are active in Pakistan too. I mean they too are an ethnic divided society similar to distant cousins Indians. Christ shld have had a free run in Pakistan by now. Joshua is listening or not???

Unlike us pakis have managed to ghettoise Christians, and above that they use blasphemy law to control them.

The question of large scale evangelicalism does not arise in paki land.

Remember cricketer Yousuf Yohanna was a Christian converted to Islam in last 10-15 years.

 

[darshan978]

I was visiting Pakistani forum and it seems the 'ancient pakistan' kind of internet tribe is slowly increasing. These are usually small number of elite young or at least Post independence born generation men usually with a relative in military (and hence mostly punjabi). They are trying to create new narrative (pakistani identity is a narrative still under development. It is a dynamic process you can observe unfolding). So far mostly they are lone wolfs struggling with their individual identity crisis, active on internet forums and social media.

https://m.facebook.com/AncientPakistan.pk/

They are inventing new phrases and repeatedly using it on internet hoping to make it mainstream (e.g. Gangadesh for India, children of the indus, indus nationalist).
View attachment 24849

These man-child kind of people are supporter of terrorist army and jihad in kashmir like any other pakistani jihadi, but they themselves are usually not religious.

An example of their discussions :










But, if this chain of thoughts is continued logically too far, it can lead to dangerous conclusions:



Which can make some others feel insecure:

MUSLIMS ALWAYS ARE HARDCORE RELIGIOUS NEVER BELIEVE
THEM THEY LIVE IN THEIR DREAM OF ISLAMISING EVERY PPL ON EARTH IN THEIR TINY PORTION OF MIND
THIS PAKJABIS CURRENTLY TRYING TO SET NARRATIVE THAT INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATION IS NOT SANATAN DHARM OR HINDU RELIGION..................................................................

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Turkic peoples
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples


Most of us probably have certain image in mind that Turks were some homogeneous pure aryan fair blue eyed race. Its kind of like thinking of 19th-20th century Ganga-Jamuni Urdu as some ancient pristine pure language.

Turks are MONGOLOIDS who were nomadic tent dwellers. The fake Turks of anatolia (Turkey) are not the Turks that India had to deal with in the medieval era such as the Kazakhs or Uzbeks (whom I've seen plenty of first hand). A person from Meghalaya or Tripura has far more physical similarity with people like Khilji and Babur than fake mughals like Saif Ali Khan. Even the word Gurkha is a derivative of the Mongolian word Gur-Khan. Urdu words such as Khandan and Ghar are also derived from Mongolian, not Persian or Arabic. If Bollywood ever bothers being accurate in their portrayal of medieval muslim armies, they would hire people from our North East to play the rulers and soldiers of invading Turkic armies. I dont know why this stupid image of Aryan-European appearance has been associated with Turks in India. The people of Turkey themselves admit that their original Turkic ancestors did not look European and it is only after extensive mixing with locals that Turkish people have their current appearance.

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

PTI MPA’s ‘hate remarks’: Christians warn of agitation

LAHORE: The Christian community will launch a protest movement and also move the court against “derogatory remarks” passed by Arif Abbasi – a PTI MPA from Ralwalpindi – on the last day of the Punjab Assembly session.

The resolve was expressed by the community leaders and its parliamentarians at a press conference here on Saturday.

They had gathered to protest the remarks the MPA allegedly uttered for a minority MPA, Tariq Gill.

The incident happened on the last day of the current assembly’s tenure, when both sides – the opposition and the treasury – were protesting against each other, raising slogans against rival party leaders.

Though Abbasi denied having said any derogatory words, Mr Gill insisted he did and all the minority MPAs , led by provincial minister Tahir Khalil Sindhu, walked out of the house.

Addressing the press conference, Shahzad Munishi, another minority MPA, said that Mr Abbasi’s remarks symbolised religious bigotry and hatred and should not have been used under any circumstances.

He said though Mr Abbasi denied it, the assembly recording stood witness to the fact.

“The Christians have helped created Pakistan as much as any other community and have been part of its progress as much as any other community. Segregating them in the name of religion and denying them (their) due rights and respect has been tragic. This social and religious division cannot go on,” he said.

Flanked by other MPAs, Tariq Gill said no Christian in the country had ever turned terrorist as they were a peaceful community, which believed in peace.

“My community cleans the country out of love for this soil. In the West, many Muslim brothers do the job. No human can, or should, be humiliated on the basis of his profession and any such attempt be condemned in (the) strongest possible words,” he said.

The Christians are a largehearted community and followed the God, who was merciful and liked forgiveness, he added.

“The community would forgive if he (Arif Abbasi) apologises. But if he does not, we will go to any length to protest (the remarks) and continue doing it. Within next two days, we will form an action committee to finalise the protest plan, which will include moving the court. We also demand (PTI chief) Imran Khan should intervene and make Abbasi apologise before it gets out of hand and cost him politically. Mr Khan should also not hold rallies on Christmas and Easters if he cannot ensure respect for the community within his own party,” he said.

Published in Dawn, May 20th, 2018

The article does not mention what words exactly. But must have called other member Choora/Bhangi obviously. In some older youtube videos form Pakistani news channel programs you can see panelists calling names to each other like that on television. Good that this time someone is raising voice because..

....Flanked by other MPAs, Tariq Gill said no Christian in the country had ever turned terrorist as they were a peaceful community, which believed in peace.

“My community cleans the country out of love for this soil. In the West, many Muslim brothers do the job. No human can, or should, be humiliated on the basis of his profession and any such attempt be condemned in (the) strongest possible words,” he said....

..because being peaceful is not always a virtue if it means being weak. Being powerless is enough reason for getting abused. It is simply because of imbalance of power.

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...rfere-in-our-strategic-decisions.81043/page-5

India would kick out all Abrahamics & end legal parity between Women & Castes if it really cared about its security||

Instead, it prefers slow suicide when West prefers fast||

Now, reply with Liberal (christian) screeching||

https://imperialenergyblog.wordpres...rialism-an-anglo-american-adaption-to-empire/

And guess who is winning and ruling since last few centuries? (Since European Christian-Jewish world came into direct contact with Indian continent, as technology and sea travel made the oceans separating the two partially irrelevant)

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Clash_of_Civilizations_map.png

Note the location of Pakistan on one of the faultlines.

the four ideals of cryptocalvinism: Equality(the universal brotherhood of man), Peace (the futility of violence), Social Justice (the fair distribution of goods), and Community (the leadership of benevolent public servants).

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ।।

And these ideals would be more attractive for most people given a free choice.

 

[Khalsa_Panth]

And these ideals would be more attractive for most people given a free choice.

Lions speak of strength, jackals of numbers।।

Most people given a christian education will choose Christianity this doesn't prove what you think it does.

You're a cuck।।

 

[Suryavanshi]

Sir he isn't a cuck he just knows about ground reality of the situation.