Our Friends the Saudis

[W.G.Ewald]

If there were a prize for Most Irresponsible Foreign Policy it would surely be awarded to Saudi Arabia. It is the nation most responsible for the rise of Islamic radicalism and militancy around the world. Over the past four decades, the kingdom's immense oil wealth has been used to underwrite the export of an extreme, intolerant and violent version of Islam preached by its Wahhabi clerics.

Quite so. There may be no sound reason to oppose the Saudis, or even to assume their kingdom will go the way of all monarchies sooner rather than later. But treating them as a highly trusted ally with veto power over American diplomacy is a bit much. Personally I was taken aback when a liberal friend, the brilliant Jim Chapin, shortly after 9/11 described the Saudis to me as a viper clasped to our bosom, but can understand where he was coming from. In any case, Saudi Arabia shouldn't be granted any kind of veto power over our negotiations with Iran, any more than Taiwan had over our dealings with China. Be friendly. . . absolutely. Keep them informed. . . of course. Stand ready to defend them against external aggression. But remember, Saudi Arabia is the international affairs equivalent of the rich heir who never worked a day but gives nice parties. A thin reed upon which to base American diplomacy in the Mideast.

Our Friends the Saudis | The American Conservative

@The Messiah

 

[SajeevJino]

But most of the Bulk amount transfer to terrorists came from KSA .!!

 

[The Messiah]

To understand the current dynamics you will have to analyze how the al-saud family came to rule arabia and what was the role of the british to solidify there partnership with al-saud family and also with wahabis. In a one line messiahesque style the british supported the wahabis in the 20th century so as to loosen the grip of the ottoman empire and further there own while the al-saud tribe was the modern day version of the fsa.

 

[The Messiah]

[PDF]http://www.kanaanonline.org/articles/00361.pdf[/PDF]

 

[nrupatunga]

Why a 15-minute phone call threatens Saudi Arabia's decades-old alliance with US

The historic 15-minute phone call between President Barack Obama and Iranian counterpart Hassan Rouhani may have cost the U.S. one of its key friends in the Middle East. The U.S. and Saudi Arabia have been allies for some 80 years, with the U.S. offering military protection to the world's second-biggest oil producer.

Riyadh is deeply skeptical of Iran's charm offensive and frustrated by an alleged lack of consultation over Washington's changing stance toward a country once branded as a member of the so-called "axis of evil." Only five years ago, the Saudis urged the U.S. to strike Iran -- which is situated just across the Persian Gulf from the kingdom.

The extent of Saudi frustration at being left out in the cold by the U.S. became apparent last month when it rejected a seat on the United Nations Security Council. It was the first country to do so, and the move surprised even its own diplomats who had been preparing for the role for years.

The U.S. agreement with Russia not to strike Syrian President Bashar Assad in response to August's alleged chemical weapons attack, but instead to remove his chemical weapons arsenal, also angered Riyadh. "The most important thing between allies is that they strategize together before declaring any decisions," the source told NBC News. "The Kerry-Lavrov agreement has clearly shown that the Americans want to reshape the Middle East without consulting us. You can't just forego strategic alliances like that and claim to be allies without any form of consultation."


"Well it's about time that we distanced ourselves from the U.S.," a Saudi businesswoman :shocked::shocked::shocked:told NBC News, speaking on condition of anonymity. "When you rear a pet snake, the least that you can expect is that you will eventually be bitten. I just don't understand why we had allowed ourselves to become so dependent."


Asked if the rift could have serious long-term implications, Sir Tom, associate fellow at think tank Chatham House said: "I don't think so. Who is Saudi Arabia going to turn to? China and Asia are a major market for them, but you would have to ask what would be the American response? It probably wouldn't get to that."

Shashank Joshi, a research fellow at the London-based Royal United Services Institute, added: "The Saudi Arabians do not have enough leverage to prevent all these things they fear, so they have to swallow what the Americans give them." "It is much less serious than Saudi Arabia would like us to believe."

 

[W.G.Ewald]

On Monday, Secretary of State John Kerry met with Saudi King Abdullah to try and warm relations between the two countries. "A true relationship between friends is based on sincerity, candor and frankness," said Prince Saudi al-Faisal, the Saudi foreign minister, after the meeting.

But Kerry certainly wasn't frank about Saudi Arabia's brutal treatment of women; according to The New York Times, "Wary of inflaming Saudi sensitivities, Mr. Kerry sidestepped a reporter's question about whether Saudi women should be allowed to drive, casting the debate as one 'best left to Saudi Arabia.'"

Kerry: Question of Women Driving 'Best Left to Saudi Arabia'

 

[t_co]

Why a 15-minute phone call threatens Saudi Arabia's decades-old alliance with US

Syria was a masterstroke from Putin. Not only did he successfully protect his client, but he also broke one of the twin legs in the US-Mideast alliance system. Now, if the US tries rapprochement with Iran, the US will lose Israel as well.

 

[nrupatunga]

Syria was a masterstroke from Putin. Not only did he successfully protect his client, but he also broke one of the twin legs in the US-Mideast alliance system. Now, if the US tries rapprochement with Iran, the US will lose Israel as well.

Do you feel that it can happen?? i mean usa siding with iran so much as to sideline israel??

And wrt syria, only time will tell how much did this cost russia, iran. Both know syria can never repay the money russia,iran hve spent on syria. So how long will they keep backing syrian regime for some reasons best known to them. Whereas saudis et al have all the money to throw much around.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Prince Bandar bin Sultan, Saudi Arabia's Gatsby Master Spy

When the prince was the ambassador he was the toast of Washington, and plenty of toasts there were. Bandar bin Sultan smoked fine cigars and drank finer Cognac. For almost 30 years as Saudi Arabia's regal messenger, lobbyist, and envoy, he told amazing stories about politicians and potentates, some of which, surprisingly, were true. Washington journalists loved him. Nobody had better access to more powerful people in higher places, or came with so much money, so quietly and massively distributed, to help out his friends.

Over the years, Bandar arranged to lower global oil prices in the service of Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan and both the Bushes. At the behest of the CIA's Bill Casey, and behind the back of Congress, Bandar arranged for the Saudis to bankroll anti-Communist wars in Nicaragua, Angola and Afghanistan. He was thick with Dick Cheney, and he was so tight with the George H.W. Bush clan—the father, the mother, the sons, the daughters—that they just called him "Bandar Bush."

 

[t_co]

Prince Bandar bin Sultan, Saudi Arabia's Gatsby Master Spy

Russian President, Saudi Spy Chief Discussed Syria, Egypt - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

The report starts by presenting the conditions under which the Russian-Saudi meeting was convened. It states that Prince Bandar, in coordination with the Americans and some European partners, proposed to Saudi King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz that Bandar visit Moscow and employ the carrot-and-stick approach, which is used in most negotiators, and offer the Russian leadership political, economic, military and security enticements in return for concessions on several regional issues, in particular Syria and Iran.

King Abdullah agreed with the proposal and contacted President Putin on July 30. In a conversation that lasted only a few minutes, they agreed to Bandar's visit and to keep it under wraps. Bandar arrived in Moscow. The visit was secret. The Saudi Embassy did not follow the usual protocol for Saudi officials visiting Russia.

In Moscow, a preliminary session was held at Russian military intelligence headquarters between Bandar and the director of Russian Military Intelligence, Gen. Igor Sergon. The meeting focused on security cooperation between the two countries. Bandar then visited Putin's house on the outskirts of the Russian capital, where they held a closed-door bilateral meeting that lasted four hours. They discussed the agenda, which consisted of bilateral issues and a number of regional and international matters in which the two countries share interest.

Bilateral relations

At the bilateral level, Bandar relayed the Saudi king's greetings to Putin and the king's emphasis on the importance of developing the bilateral relationship. He also told Putin that the king would bless any understanding reached during the visit. Bandar also said, however, that "any understanding we reach in this meeting will not only be a Saudi-Russian understanding, but will also be an American-Russian understanding. I have spoken with the Americans before the visit, and they pledged to commit to any understandings that we may reach, especially if we agree on the approach to the Syrian issue."

Bandar stressed the importance of developing relations between the two countries, saying that the logic of interests can reveal large areas of cooperation. He gave several examples in the economic, investment, oil and military arenas.

Bandar told Putin, "There are many common values "‹"‹and goals that bring us together, most notably the fight against terrorism and extremism all over the world. Russia, the US, the EU and the Saudis agree on promoting and consolidating international peace and security. The terrorist threat is growing in light of the phenomena spawned by the Arab Spring. We have lost some regimes. And what we got in return were terrorist experiences, as evidenced by the experience of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and the extremist groups in Libya. ... As an example, I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics in the city of Sochi on the Black Sea next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us, and they will not move in the Syrian territory's direction without coordinating with us. These groups do not scare us. We use them in the face of the Syrian regime but they will have no role or influence in Syria's political future."

Putin thanked King Abdullah for his greetings and Bandar for his exposition, but then he said to Bandar, "We know that you have supported the Chechen terrorist groups for a decade. And that support, which you have frankly talked about just now, is completely incompatible with the common objectives of fighting global terrorism that you mentioned. We are interested in developing friendly relations according to clear and strong principles."

Bandar said that the matter is not limited to the kingdom and that some countries have overstepped the roles drawn for them, such as Qatar and Turkey. He added, "We said so directly to the Qataris and to the Turks. We rejected their unlimited support to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and elsewhere. The Turks' role today has become similar to Pakistan's role in the Afghan war. We do not favor extremist religious regimes, and we wish to establish moderate regimes in the region. It is worthwhile to pay attention to and to follow up on Egypt's experience. We will continue to support the [Egyptian] army, and we will support Defense Minister Gen. Abdel Fattah al-Sisi because he is keen on having good relations with us and with you. And we suggest to you to be in contact with him, to support him and to give all the conditions for the success of this experiment. We are ready to hold arms deals with you in exchange for supporting these regimes, especially Egypt."

Economic and oil cooperation

Then Bandar discussed the potential cooperation between the two countries if an understanding could be reached on a number of issues, especially Syria. He discussed at length the matter of oil and investment cooperation, saying, "Let us examine how to put together a unified Russian-Saudi strategy on the subject of oil. The aim is to agree on the price of oil and production quantities that keep the price stable in global oil markets. ... We understand Russia's great interest in the oil and gas present in the Mediterranean Sea from Israel to Cyprus through Lebanon and Syria. And we understand the importance of the Russian gas pipeline to Europe. We are not interested in competing with that. We can cooperate in this area as well as in the areas of establishing refineries and petrochemical industries. The kingdom can provide large multi-billion-dollar investments in various fields in the Russian market. What's important is to conclude political understandings on a number of issues, particularly Syria and Iran."

Putin responded that the proposals about oil and gas, economic and investment cooperation deserve to be studied by the relevant ministries in both countries.

Syria first

Bandar discussed the Syrian issue at length. He explained how the kingdom's position had evolved on the Syrian crisis since the Daraa incident all the way to what is happening today. He said, "The Syrian regime is finished as far as we and the majority of the Syrian people are concerned. [The Syrian people] will not allow President Bashar al-Assad to remain at the helm. The key to the relations between our two countries starts by understanding our approach to the Syrian issue. So you have to stop giving [the Syrian regime] political support, especially at the UN Security Council, as well as military and economic support. And we guarantee you that Russia's interests in Syria and on the Mediterranean coast will not be affected one bit. In the future, Syria will be ruled by a moderate and democratic regime that will be directly sponsored by us and that will have an interest in understanding Russia's interests and role in the region."

Russia's intransigence is to Iran's benefit

Bandar also presented Saudi Arabia's views about Iran's role in the region, especially in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Yemen, Bahrain and other countries. He said he hoped that the Russians would understand that Russia's interests and the interests of the Gulf states are one in the face of Iranian greed and nuclear challenge.

Putin gave his country's position on the Arab Spring developments, especially about what has happened in Libya, saying, "We are very concerned about Egypt. And we understand what the Egyptian army is doing. But we are very cautious in approaching what's happening because we are afraid that things may slide toward an Egyptian civil war, which would be too costly for the Egyptians, the Arabs and the international community. I wanted to do a brief visit to Egypt. And the matter is still under discussion."

Regarding Iran, Putin said to Bandar that Iran is a neighbor, that Russia and Iran are bound by relations that go back centuries, and that there are common and tangled interests between them. Putin said, "We support the Iranian quest to obtain nuclear fuel for peaceful purposes. And we helped them develop their facilities in this direction. Of course, we will resume negotiations with them as part of the 5P+1 group. I will meet with President Hassan Rouhani on the sidelines of the Central Asia summit and we will discuss a lot of bilateral, regional and international issues. We will inform him that Russia is completely opposed to the UN Security Council imposing new sanctions on Iran. We believe that the sanctions imposed against Iran and Iranians are unfair and that we will not repeat the experience again."

Erdogan to visit Moscow in September

Regarding the Turkish issue, Putin spoke of his friendship with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan; "Turkey is also a neighboring country with which we have common interests. We are keen to develop our relations in various fields. During the Russian-Turkish meeting, we scrutinized the issues on which we agree and disagree. We found out that we have more converging than diverging views. I have already informed the Turks, and I will reiterate my stance before my friend Erdogan, that what is happening in Syria necessitates a different approach on their part. Turkey will not be immune to Syria's bloodbath. The Turks ought to be more eager to find a political settlement to the Syrian crisis. We are certain that the political settlement in Syria is inevitable, and therefore they ought to reduce the extent of damage. Our disagreement with them on the Syrian issue does not undermine other understandings between us at the level of economic and investment cooperation. We have recently informed them that we are ready to cooperate with them to build two nuclear reactors. This issue will be on the agenda of the Turkish prime minister during his visit to Moscow in September."

Putin: Our stance on Assad will not change

Regarding the Syrian issue, the Russian president responded to Bandar, saying, "Our stance on Assad will never change. We believe that the Syrian regime is the best speaker on behalf of the Syrian people, and not those liver eaters. During the Geneva I Conference, we agreed with the Americans on a package of understandings, and they agreed that the Syrian regime will be part of any settlement. Later on, they decided to renege on Geneva I. In all meetings of Russian and American experts, we reiterated our position. In his upcoming meeting with his American counterpart John Kerry, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov will stress the importance of making every possible effort to rapidly reach a political settlement to the Syrian crisis so as to prevent further bloodshed."

As soon as Putin finished his speech, Prince Bandar warned that in light of the course of the talks, things were likely to intensify, especially in the Syrian arena, although he appreciated the Russians' understanding of Saudi Arabia's position on Egypt and their readiness to support the Egyptian army despite their fears for Egypt's future.

The head of the Saudi intelligence services said that the dispute over the approach to the Syrian issue leads to the conclusion that "there is no escape from the military option, because it is the only currently available choice given that the political settlement ended in stalemate. We believe that the Geneva II Conference will be very difficult in light of this raging situation."

At the end of the meeting, the Russian and Saudi sides agreed to continue talks, provided that the current meeting remained under wraps. This was before one of the two sides leaked it via the Russian press.

Coldly threatening terrorism against the Winter Olympics like a mafia strongman? How did Bandar think Putin would react to that, given that Putin has enough warheads to glass every city from Casablanca to Baghdad and still maintain a viable deterrent against the US?

 

[t_co]

Now let's shift to the House of Saud's inept handling of the Saudi-US alliance:

Did the Saudis really think that the US would take on Syria, Hezbollah, Iran and Russia on their behalf?

Now let's look at the Saudi reaction. First, they refused to take their seat at the Security Council. So what? With the predictable exception of Kuwait and Bahrain, who is going to be heartbroken at not having the Saudis sit at the horseshoe table? Kosovo?

And now comes this threat of a "major shift" in the US-Saudi alliance.

What in the world is Bandar talking about again?

First, does Bandar really believe that the US vitally needs the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Does he not realize that the US will be self-sufficient in energy pretty soon? Or does he not realize that the days when ARAMCO was the key to the strength of the dollar are long gone and that now the strength of the dollar depends mostly on US military and financial power? And even if Saudi Arabia was vital to the strength of the dollar, does Bandar really think that he can threaten US vital strategic interests with impunity?

Second, if Bandar wants to shift away from the alliance with the US, where does he think he could shift to? Most definitely not China, which has a very serious "Islamic problem" on its hands in its western provinces; not the EU, which is faithfully committed to its colonial status in the US empire, and nobody in Africa - even less so after the recent carnage in Kenya. Nobody in Latin America for sure, if only because of its long history of anti-US struggle and its large Arab population which know what kind of sick ideology Wahabism is.

In Asia, maybe the desperate rulers of North Korea or Myanmar would want to explore options, but that's about it.

So unless Bandar thinks he can punish the US by shifting its alliance to some "heavyweights" like Kuwait or Bahrain, one can only be left wondering of what Bandar has in mind.

Think about it: first he threatens Putin with terror attacks during the Sochi Olympics [3] and now he threatens to "dump" the US. This would be comical if the House of Saud was not sitting on a huge amount of money which they have - and will - use to spread terror and Wahabi extremism all over the planet.

Which brings me to my last questions: does Bandar really not understand how fragile his regime is? Does he seriously believe that he can threaten both the US and Russia and get away with it?

Maybe the poor man believes that the Bush clan will do something about it, but if so, then that hope misplaced. Sure, the Bush family and the House of Saud are old accomplices in all sorts of ugly deals, but not only are the Bush people currently not in power, they will always love their money more than they will love their friends. And the truth is, neither the Bush family nor even the US need the Saudis all that much.

The reverse, however, is not true. The Wahabi house of Saudi is sitting on top of a treasure trove of Shi'ite oil (the oil rich regions of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia are also the ones where a repressed Shi'ite minority lives). Both Bahraini and the Saudi regimes have held on to power only thanks to a ruthless and systematic repression against its population, especially Shi'ites. For the Wahabis, to stay in power means killing Shi'ites, lots of them. And to do that, one needs a "protector" at the Security Council. In the case of Saudi Arabia, this protector has always been the US. But just imagine what could happen if the US withdrew its protection of the kingdom at the Security Council. Imagine what kind of signal that would send to the repressed Shi'ites in these two countries?

Without even going into an R2P (responsibility to protect) situation, it is pretty obvious that the Saudi regime only serves "at the pleasure of the US President" and that it could be summarily dismissed.

But Bandar seems to be completely oblivious to that.

Bandar must have gone clinically insane. Either that or it is the entire House of Saud has gone mad, maybe as a consequence of its degenerate lifestyle. Who knows?

If Bandar is "retired" - administratively or physically - sooner rather than later, then its option one. If not, then its option two. But either way, the writing is on the wall for the House of Saud.

Asia Times Online :: Middle East News, Iraq, Iran current affairs

A bit over the top, but mostly true.

 

[t_co]

Saudi Arabia has led the entire Muslim world into a corner, whereby every other 'pole' on earth (the US/UK, Russia, China, the EU, India) views their interaction with the Arab 'pole' through the lens of proselytizing via semtex and/or separatism.

 

[dhananjay1]

Bandar bin Sultan It up there with Maximus naughtius and Bigus Dicus.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Bandar bin Sultan It up there with Maximus naughtius and Bigus Dicus.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

I just think "Bandar Bush" is funny.

 

[nrupatunga]

The Saudis, the Iranians and us(as in indians)

The below photo is pet theme for obama bashers