MiG-21 Bison crashes while landing in Rajasthan, pilot killed

sesha_maruthi27

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I have to admit, IAF does not care about there pilots..

Nor the care about winning a war..
Only a part of the blame can be on the IAF, the main role is that of the GoI which is not taking proper decision on buying new fighters and just keep on upgrading the old ones and also ditching the indigenous fighter development.....

Shame on the GoI and the defence ministry which is not taking proper care of the defence forces.....

:facepalm:
 

Alpha1

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I hope india gets rid of this flying coffin/widow maker soon! :
 

Blackwater

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Mig 21 has the reputation of being a flying coffin or a widow maker!
your f-7 is no exceptional too.

BTW Mig21- is very unstable aircraft specially at low speed. and in the absence of advance jet trainer in IAF .this is bound to happen.

IAF is not lucky as Pak army or PAF where u order planes in morning ,call ur financier saudis in afternoon and get delivery in evening from Chinese..

its shame despite of billion $$ of defense budget our procurement process, and sarkari babus nexus is the worst in the world
 

Armand2REP

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I hope this incident will end any debate of MiG-21 not being the flying coffin. It truly is... It is one thing to crash far too often, it is another to keep taking hundreds of brave pilots to the grave.
 

TrueSpirit

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It is one thing to crash far too often, it is another to keep taking hundreds of brave pilots to the grave.
Exactly, pilots going down with the plane is extremely disheartening. And, it is not just the Mig21's but Mig27 & Jaguar as well, that keep falling out of sky (& even Mig29).

Earlier IAF used to blame 55% crashes on human error due to direct transition from a Basic JT - IJT - No AJT - Mig21. Now, that we have Hawk for AJT, crash rates should have come down by 55%. I am not sure if the same has actually happened. Even after having Hawk AJT's for years, the crash rate has shown only marginal improvement, if at all.

Is there any other AF in the world with the a comparable crash rate (peacetime), at any point in history ? If there is one, what was done to ameliorate the situation ?
 
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t_co

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Exactly, pilots going dying with the plane is extremely disheartening. And, it is not just the Mig21's but Mig27 & Jaguar as well, that keep falling out of sky (& even Mig29).

Earlier IAF used to blame 55% crashes on human error due to direct transition from a Basic JT - IJT - No AJT - Mig21. Now, that we have Hawk for AJT, crash rates should have come down by 55%. I am not sure if the same has actually happened. Even after having Hawk AJT's for years, the crash rate has shown only marginal improvement, if at all.

Is there any other AF in the world with the a comparable crash rate (peacetime), at any point in history ? If there is one, what was done to ameliorate the situation ?
The VVF archives have been declassified - maybe checking their operational history with Mig-21s would shed some light?
 

Armand2REP

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Exactly, pilots going down with the plane is extremely disheartening. And, it is not just the Mig21's but Mig27 & Jaguar as well, that keep falling out of sky (& even Mig29).

Earlier IAF used to blame 55% crashes on human error due to direct transition from a Basic JT - IJT - No AJT - Mig21. Now, that we have Hawk for AJT, crash rates should have come down by 55%. I am not sure if the same has actually happened. Even after having Hawk AJT's for years, the crash rate has shown only marginal improvement, if at all.

Is there any other AF in the world with the a comparable crash rate (peacetime), at any point in history ? If there is one, what was done to ameliorate the situation ?
IAF has a crash rate per flight hour far and above the international average, not to mention far above any other country. The loss rates of aircraft per type are also higher in India than anywhere else. This isn't a foreign supply problem because dozens of nations use these aircraft, this is internal. Be it training, part acquisition, but I think the biggest culprit is maintenance cycles and shoddy aircrews. No one even looks at them.
 

TrueSpirit

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IAF has a crash rate per flight hour far and above the international average, not to mention far above any other country. The loss rates of aircraft per type are also higher in India than anywhere else. This isn't a foreign supply problem because dozens of nations use these aircraft, this is internal. Be it training, part acquisition, but I think the biggest culprit is maintenance cycles and shoddy aircrews. No one even looks at them.
maintenance cycles means HAL primarily, right ? They have always been a fav. punching bag for IAF...not sure if they alone are responsible for this sad state of affairs.

shoddy aircrews implies the ground staff & airmen, correct ? This is new & worth understanding.

Can someone throw some light on it ?
 

TrueSpirit

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The VVF archives have been declassified - maybe checking their operational history with Mig-21s would shed some light?
IAF personnel must have already done so & applied the know-how. But results are far from encouraging.

And, it is not just Mig21. Every single aircraft in IAF is highly vulnerable to crashes (Mig's & Jaguars, moreso).

However, despite Su-30MKI's well-known.susceptibility to FOB, it's fleet has experienced only 3 or 4 crashes in its 16 years of operational tenure (squadron service) in India, which by IAF's standard is a commendable feat.

I do not think there are any easy answers to this poser. IAF seems equally clueless. Lets see what's the culprit this time (tech. snag or something else). Most defence analysys say it is due to extremely poor safety culture in our nation, whatever that means.

What is PLAAF's crash rate, by the way ? Is it on par with Western AF's ?
 

Immanuel

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RIP :(

IAF's crews are some of the most skilled and well trained, there is no question of their failures in maintenance. People often fail to understand that IAF operates is by far the most extreme of environments. The Migs are being flown well beyond service life, at certain point, no amount of maintenance can guarantee safe flight.

The biggest culprit is offcourse human error which is due to lack of proper training in crucial stages. The Hawk is lst stage which is actually silly. IAF should have 4 stages of training for fighter pilots with LCA being the last step. IMO LCA twi seater trainer is the ideal LIFT and should be the last stage of training. Being a full fledged super sonic bird, it will bring in a crucial last step of training before pilots go into squadron service.

Stage 1: Pilatus mk-2 + HTT 40 (whenever it arrives)

Stage 2: IJT Sitara (whenever ready)

Stage 3: Hawk

Stage 4: LCA mk - LIFT trainer
 

Kunal Biswas

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Rest In Peace..

==============

The engines use on MIG-21bision have engine issues specially the fuel lines, these engines are imported so there spares, Ground crew and Pilots are skilled but not the spare and engines, IAF fly there birds at very high sorties..
@Twinblade
 
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Twinblade

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The engines use on MIG-21bision have engine issues specially the fuel lines, these engines are imported so there spares, Ground crew and Pilots are skilled but not the spare and engines, IAF fly there birds at very high sorties..
@Twinblade
Fuel line issue was an old one. Fuel lines on Indian MiG-21 were prone to failure due to higher ambient temperature. That issue has long been rectified by addition of a heat shield. However MiG-21 's crash rates are not the highest in Indian Airforce, that crown is held by MiG-27 and MiG-23 which not only have far more hardware failures, but also flies in a dangerous environment. MiG-21's crash rates are about the same as the average crash rates of all types put together (MiG-23, 27, 29, M2K, Jaguar and Su-30Mki). Given the age of these birds and how they are flown on an average of 180+ hours annually, the crash rates of MiG-21 are nothing out of the ordinary, especially since they have been used several times of their frame life by now.
 
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ladder

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A related development.

Flying MiG-21 violates fundamental right to life, officer tells HC
NEW DELHI: Flying a MiG-21 amounted to "violation of his fundamental right to life", a serving wing commander has told the Delhi high court, seeking redressal after a regular flight exercise in 2005 went awry, leaving him with debilitating neck and back pain that has rendered him unfit for flying and even day-to-day tasks.

The court on Tuesday directed the Centre to provide a list of MiG-21 crashes that have taken place till date and posted the matter for October 10, 2013.

The petition was filed by Sanjeet Singh Kaila, a serving officer in the Indian Air Force, who cited "violation of his fundamental right to life, especially the right to work in a safe environment" under Article 21 of the Constitution.

In his plea, Kaila said he was posted at Air Force Station Nal in Rajasthan as a Squadron Leader in 2005. On January 4 that year, he embarked on a regular flight exercise along with three other pilots. "Immediately after take-off, the petitioner experienced a drift to the left side of the aircraft. Simultaneously, the petitioner was informed by the other pilot flying the second aircraft, of a fire at the rear end of his aircraft. Assessing the emergency, the petitioner promptly carried out all the essential directives and got the tyres of the aircraft down for a landing," the petition said.

"The petitioner performed all the aforementioned actions despite the rear of the aircraft being engulfed in thick fire. Despite a near-complete engine/control failure and at grave risk to his own life, the petitioner continued to stay put in an almost uncontrollable aircraft so as to steer it away to safety from a nearby village... To save human life, the petitioner ejected only seconds before the crash of the aircraft."

Kaila said following the incident, he was injured and later forced to discontinue flying after a comprehensive medical examination showed he was suffering from cervicalgia and disc bulges of vertebrae (cervical spine). "The medical report also clearly mentions that the petitioner was rendered unfit for flying duties because of the incident. He was additionally instructed and advised by the doctors to even refrain from performing even day-to-day tasks," it said.

The petition further alleged that a reply to his RTI application revealed that the incident was caused due to a manufacturing defect and poor workmanship at HAL's facility. Kaila claimed that despite sending a representation to the government on December 25, 2012, seeking justice by compensating him for the loss suffered by as a result of the air crash, no response was given by the government.

The matter was filed before the court in May 2013. On May 22, a bench of justices Geeta Mittal and Deepa Sharma had issued notice to the government and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), respondents in the petition, seeking their response. On Tuesday, while HAL appeared through its counsel, no reply was filed by the Centre.
Flying MiG-21 violates fundamental right to life, officer tells HC - The Times of India
 

venkat

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what a handsome young lad!!! very sad!!! Rest in peace my dear brother and condolences to your family!!!
 

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