Italy will send Marines Back to India for Trial

[drkrn]

Your national spirit is admirable, I can understand and appreciate.
But this does not change that in court you have to prove guilt, that you give for granted.
My topics will have to be taken into account, everything will be explained because there are too many points of dispute. This is not only a subject, but a body of evidence that form a credible defensive system, which will go to court dismantled piece by piece if you want to get a sentence without doubt to public opinion.

So far we have briefly examined:
- The investigation. Fishing Boat, Olympic Flair, autopsy
- The witnesses. Fishermen, Coast Guard, the email
- Adm. Piroli report, ballistics

Now we see the trajectories of bullets
According to the reports of italian witnesses the boat was heading starboard side for a collision course. This is the report by the chief of the defense team, one of the two defendants.
http://rapidshare.com/files/1728309818/rapporto_latorre.jpg

In this case the boat always shows the left side, while the shots are on the right side.
http://rapidshare.com/files/1347212845/ang01.JPG
http://rapidshare.com/files/442561811/ang02.JPG
The speech is closed, because you can not find the holes on the opposite side.

Here you can see the shots on the vessel, 3 in all, are on the right side.
http://rapidshare.com/files/3398477644/ang03.JPG
http://rapidshare.com/files/1954220346/ang04.JPG
http://rapidshare.com/files/2529171841/ang05.jpg


But as Mr. Freddy Bosco says 21/3/2012 to Italian journalist Fiamma Tinelli they sailed in the direction parallel and opposite (ie to the South / South-East) have also examined this situation.
(actually in the same interview Mr. Bosco also claims that went to the South, and also that they went to the West. He is just ridiculous)

I reconstructed the scene in 3D so you can easily measure the angles between the wing of plank right of Enrica Lexie
http://rapidshare.com/files/2224510763/ang5a.jpg
and the boat approaching with parallel course and opposite.
Here you can see the scene with the boat at 500mt, 300mt and 100mt.
http://rapidshare.com/files/3532962065/ang06.JPG

And here you can see an enlargement with the position at 300mt and 100mt.
http://rapidshare.com/files/3562137342/ang07.JPG
In this way we can move in the scene and to measure the horizontal and vertical angles of impact at any distance.


Now let's see what can be measured on the St. Antony.
(the whole document is very large and complex, summarize here a few elements)
I'm lucky, because we have a bullet hole passing the right rear of the cabin, taken on two different occasions and certified label stuck to the police. This allows us to measure the angles of impact horizontal (in relation to the center line) and vertical.
http://rapidshare.com/files/2900001899/ang08.JPG
http://rapidshare.com/files/2333709581/ang09.JPG
http://rapidshare.com/files/2382537980/ang10.JPG

These measures of the angles of impact, horizontal and vertical.
http://rapidshare.com/files/3751233938/ang10a.JPG
http://rapidshare.com/files/4088486233/ang10b.JPG

The result is what you see: red trajectory actually measured (both vertical and horizontal), yellow lines that should have been with a shot from Enrica Lexie, respectively 500m, 300m and 100m.
http://rapidshare.com/files/3028994621/ang11.JPG

The presence of a bullet hole on the roof of the cabin allows us to have a feedback on the horizontal plane.
http://rapidshare.com/files/2849167581/ang12.JPG

This impact angle measured horizontal right upper back of the cab: 46,4°
http://rapidshare.com/files/2249073415/ang13.JPG
And this the angle of impact measured horizontally over the roof hole: 44,89° (is centesimal )
http://rapidshare.com/files/2266414462/ang14.JPG

Conclusions

The angles of impact of the bullets detectable on St. Antony are incompatible
- for the route of approach described by italian witnesses.
- for the route of approach described by the indian witness.
The consequence is that the boat approached the Enrica Lexie was not on the vessel St. Antony.

I know from experience that in complex investigations we composing a puzzle. There may be missing tiles, but not may be different tiles. It is not possible to put on.


Now you say that an Indian court will not consider all that so far I have briefly described. Fortunately, it's your opinion because you can not do a trial based on what he says the prosecution. Perhaps you could in remote times, but now they have to find space the arguments of the defense.
It may be that the defense lawyers remain inert and restricted to invoke the mercy of the court (they are paid by us very well!), It may be that the Italian authorities do not allow me to examine radar data and keep them tightly closed in the drawer. Anything can be.
But then public opinion, on the web, what will think?
Here we are showing that on web no one can control the information, and that the civil discussion of different positions is sought by all.

currently i didn't read any of your photos or documents because those are your countries investigations probably and are certainly of no value to discuss.

as @sayakared said until NIA presents its charge sheet we do not know what exactly happened there, to discuss about..

 

[Nino]

The NIA has taken the vision documents and expert reports that were sent, but oddly enough, does not speak or has not made "‹"‹known, perhaps to avoid the newspapers Indians should correct what has been written so far, or, more simply, can reveal the evidence collected in the investigation.

 

[drkrn]

The NIA has taken the vision documents and expert reports that were sent, but oddly enough, does not speak or has not made "‹"‹known, perhaps to avoid the newspapers Indians should correct what has been written so far, or, more simply, can reveal the evidence collected in the investigation.

how come you know such information of NIA.are you working with italian spy agency????

 

[Nino]

how come you know such information of NIA.are you working with italian spy agency????

Even if it was not sure I could tell you, no my friend, I made simply by having a trusted person to the General Management.

 

[sayareakd]

wait for the NIA to file chargesheet, then if you lay your hands on it, post it here and then we will discuss in details.

 

[Grifo]

currently i didn't read any of your photos or documents because those are your countries investigations probably and are certainly of no value to discuss.

as @sayakared said until NIA presents its charge sheet we do not know what exactly happened there, to discuss about..

Eye does not see, heart does not grieve, say in Roma

 

[drkrn]

Even if it was not sure I could tell you, no my friend, I made simply by having a trusted person to the General Management.

i call it B.S
a friend of my friend's friend told me something.............

 

[Grifo]

how come you know such information of NIA.are you working with italian spy agency????

If our 007 had taken the documents of the investigation keep them in a safe.
They are like a tomb, it's their job. And if anything sending out are just false papers.

There are some rumors came to journalists, but even these are jealous and often do not realize the importance they have. Not even your investigators are able to lock down everything, but it happens so here too.

 

[drkrn]

Eye does not see, heart does not grieve, say in Roma

i am not a judge dude

by the way a nice saying

 

[drkrn]

If our 007 had taken the documents of the investigation keep them in a safe.
They are like a tomb, it's their job. And if anything sending out are just false papers.

There are some rumors came to journalists, but even these are jealous and often do not realize the importance they have. Not even your investigators are able to lock down everything, but it happens so here too.

so they are just rumours

 

[Grifo]

wait for the NIA to file chargesheet, then if you lay your hands on it, post it here and then we will discuss in details.

Ok, but we will also discuss about what is not written.

You must accept that you are obliged to prove guilt. If we were in court so far have not been able to dismantle any of the objections that I did. You just said that these objections in an Indian court worth nothing.
I hope it is not true.

 

[sayareakd]

Ok, but we will also discuss about what is not written.

You must accept that you are obliged to prove guilt. If we were in court so far have not been able to dismantle any of the objections that I did. You just said that these objections in an Indian court worth nothing.
I hope it is not true.

I not obliged to prove the guilt, it is State through NIA that will do it for the crimes committed. Rest of the post frankly i dont understand.

 

[SamwiseTheBrave]

dont get what all these posts are about.... the needle of suspicion and public perception is very strongly against the italian marines, if the bullet profiles at the time of autopsy matched those from a NATO-Issue Berrreta then its common sense that the Italian Marines are guilty and ought to face the full force of the law. if the italian govt is so sure of their innocence and has a strong case, why did it refuse to send them back during xmas and risked a full blown int`l crisis ? that too by going against the SC ? that really damanged italy`s image in the eyes of the indian public and frankly i dont think your govt. even bothered todo damage control. it only speaks about the italian systems arrogance and hubris. if you are trying to change the online perception here on DFI, realize that a lot of damange has been done and its now a festering sore!

 

[sayareakd]

dont get what all these posts are about.... the needle of suspicion and public perception is very strongly against the italian marines, if the bullet profiles at the time of autopsy matched those from a NATO-Issue Berrreta then its common sense that the Italian Marines are guilty and ought to face the full force of the law. if the italian govt is so sure of their innocence and has a strong case, why did it refuse to send them back during xmas and risked a full blown int`l crisis ? that too by going against the SC ? that really damanged italy`s image in the eyes of the indian public and frankly i dont think your govt. even bothered todo damage control. it only speaks about the italian systems arrogance and hubris. if you are trying to change the online perception here on DFI, realize that a lot of damange has been done and its now a festering sore!

wait some more time, all the fog will be cleared.

 

[Grifo]

dont get what all these posts are about.... the needle of suspicion and public perception is very strongly against the italian marines, if the bullet profiles at the time of autopsy matched those from a NATO-Issue Berrreta then its common sense that the Italian Marines are guilty and ought to face the full force of the law. if the italian govt is so sure of their innocence and has a strong case, why did it refuse to send them back during xmas and risked a full blown int`l crisis ? that too by going against the SC ? that really damanged italy`s image in the eyes of the indian public and frankly i dont think your govt. even bothered todo damage control. it only speaks about the italian systems arrogance and hubris. if you are trying to change the online perception here on DFI, realize that a lot of damange has been done and its now a festering sore!

The autopsy, done at the Institute of Forensic Medicine of Trivandrum on 16/2/2012, and signed by the Director Prof. K. Sasikala, gave us the measures of the bullet found in the body of a victim: 7.64mm diameter and 31mm length. These measures are not compatible with the Beretta AR 70/90 supplied, which is caliber 5.56x45 NATO.
To I know this document is in Italy.

These measures, you can check, correspond to the cartridge 7.62x54R, Russian-made, which can be fired two guns: the rifle Dragunov and PKM machine gun. You may find who uses them, the Italian military does not use.

If you read the thread you'll see that the story is not as clear as you think.

 

[drkrn]

Ok, but we will also discuss about what is not written.

You must accept that you are obliged to prove guilt. If we were in court so far have not been able to dismantle any of the objections that I did. You just said that these objections in an Indian court worth nothing.
I hope it is not true.

your objections are unworthy to mention of.
it is

 

[Grifo]

your objections are unworthy to mention of.
it is

Ok, we have different opinions, we will see the topics in the trial

I made an abstract of my arguments of defense, with links for further information. Now everyone knows the reasons for the other.
If you want to continue the discussion, but saying only that they are not taken into consideration I do not know what to say.

- Abstract -

 

[ladder]

EU asks India to find urgent solution to Italian marines' case

Brussels: The European Union on Monday said it is following the case of two Italian marines in India "very closely" and noted that any decision on this case would be "very carefully assessed" even as an EU commissioner has called on the EU to stop free trade negotiations with India.

"We continue to follow the situation very closely as we have been from the very beginning that any decision on this case would be very carefully assessed from our side," an EU spokesperson for foreign affairs, Maja Kocijancic, told a news conference here.

According to media reports, the two Italian marines, Salvatore Girone and Massimiliano Latorre, may face trial under charges that provide for capital punishment if they are found guilty. The two were detained in India after shooting dead two Indian fishermen while guarding an Italian oil tanker off the southern state of Kerala in February 2012.

"We the European Union encourage India to find as a matter of urgency a mutually satisfactory solution to this long standing case in accordance with international law and UN conventions on the law of the sea," said Kocijancic who is the spokeswoman for EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton.

"This issue also has a bearing on the issue of global fight against piracy to which the EU is strongly committed. We will continue to follow the case," she added.

Meanwhile, the EU Commissioner responsible for industry and entrepreneurship, Antonio Tijani, who is from Italy , tweeted "Can we keep negotiating FTA India when death penalty is considerated against EU citizens fighting sea piracy?I think not."

EU asks India to find urgent solution to Italian marines` case

============

They seem to not have learnt a lesson.

Seems that periodic dosses are needed.

Well these buggers are no better than their Yankee brother. Or are they acting thus to show brotherly love.

 

[Razor]

EU asks India to find urgent solution to Italian marines` case

============

They seem to not have learnt a lesson.

Seems that periodic dosses are needed.

Well these buggers are no better than their Yankee brother. Or are they acting thus to show brotherly love.

More like a master-tame leash dog relationship