Israel-Palestine Conflict

Discussion in 'West Asia & Africa' started by Yusuf, May 17, 2009.

  1. I-G

    I-G Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,736
    Likes Received:
    55
    Three killed in Tel Aviv gay centre shooting
    AFP 2 August 2009, 06:48am IST


    TEL AVIV: A masked man opened fire on a crowd in front of a gay community centre in Tel Aviv late on Saturday night, killing three people and A wounded Israeli is evacuated following a shooting attack at a gay club in Tel Aviv. (AFP)
    wounding at least 10 others, Israeli emergency services said.

    A young man and a young woman were killed on the spot while the third victim died in hospital and one of the wounded was in serious condition, they said.

    The gunman, who was dressed in black, unloaded an automatic weapon on the young group of gays and lesbians at the entrance of the centre, located in the heart of Tel Aviv, and then ran away, witnesses said.

    Tel Aviv Police Chief Shahar Ayalon ordered the closure of a nearby gay bar in the city and urged such establishments to remain vigilant.

    "We are only at the first stage of the investigation, we continue our search and we are not sure of the motive of this attack since the centre has not received any threats recently," Ayalon said.

    Representatives of the gay community believe it was a homophobic attack.

    "It is not surprising that such a crime can be committed given the incitement of hatred against the homosexual community," the president of Tel Aviv's gay and lesbian community, Mai Pelem, told reporters.

    Pelem was referring to verbal attacks against gays from the religious community.

    Three killed in Tel Aviv gay centre shooting - Middle East - World - NEWS - The Times of India
     
  2. I-G

    I-G Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,736
    Likes Received:
    55
    Israel mulls buying S Korean fighter jets for training

    Israel mulls buying S Korean fighter jets for training

    Updated on Sunday, August 02, 2009, 18:07 IST

    Jerusalem: The Israeli Air Force is planning to purchase South Korea's T-50 Golden Eagle fighter jets in a bid to replace its ageing Skyhawk fleet, the Ha'aretz daily reported on Sunday.


    A three-member delegation of the Israeli Air Force is expected to visit Seoul next week to discuss the matter with their South Korean counterparts.

    This is the first time in 40 years that Israel is considering to purchase fighter jets outside the US.

    The report added that Israel is planning to purchase at least 30 jets to be used in the combat training exercises of trainee pilots.

    The T-50, produced by Korean Airspace in collaboration with the US company Lockheed Martin, took its maiden flight in 2002. South Korean has been using this light jet for training purposes.

    Israel is also considering two other jets for the purchase - the T-45, an American model of the British Hawk training aircraft, and the M-346, produced by the Italian firm Alenia Aermacchi. However, the South Korean jet appears to be in the lead, as its performance matches the F-16 fighter jets, the report said.

    The Skyhawk first arrived in Israel in 1968, marking the induction of US-made jets into the Israeli Air force.

    Israel mulls buying S Korean fighter jets for training
     
  3. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,692
    IAF strikes Gaza tunnel

    Israeli fighter jets hit arms smuggling tunnel in Strip's south after militants fire Qassam, mortar shells at western Negev
    Ynet
    Published: 08.10.09, 07:35 / Israel News
    Israeli Air Force fighter jets struck an underground arms smuggling tunnel in southern Gaza Strip overnight, following Sunday night's Qassam and mortar shell fire from the Strip at Israel.

    The pilots reported hitting their mark. The Reuters news agency quoted Hamas sources as saying no injuries were reported in the strike.

    Two mortar shells fired from northern Gaza Sunday landed within the Palestinian side of the security fence, causing no damage or injuries.

    The day also saw a Qassam rocket fired at the western Negev. The rocket landed in an open area near the Sdot Negev Regional Council. No injuries or damage were reported.

    The Color Red alert reportedly failed to sound at the launch, which was detected only by the explosion, heard by IDF soldiers stationed near the security fence.

    The last Qassam fire at Israel prior to Sunday night took place on July 16.
     
  4. RPK

    RPK Indyakudimahan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,882
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    13° 4'60.00"N 80°16'60.00"E
    Israeli warplanes strike Gaza: Palestinians - Middle East - World - NEWS - The Times of India

    GAZA CITY: Israeli warplanes struck the Gaza Strip early on Tuesday near the southern city of Rafah, Palestinian security officials said.


    The air strike followed the firing of a mortar round from the Gaza Strip into Israel, which injured one soldier, said an Israeli military official.

    The first Israeli air strike against Gaza since August 10 targeted tunnels under the border with Egypt to break the Israeli-imposed blockade on the territory.

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has warned on several occasions during recent weeks that the Israeli army would respond to each rocket or shell fired into Israel.

    On Monday a Palestinian was killed by Israeli fire and another man wounded when they approached the border with Israel on the northern edge of the Gaza Strip, Gaza medics said.

    Shortly after that incident three mortar rounds were fired from the Gaza Strip into Israel, wounding one soldier.

    According to the army more than 200 rockets and shells have been fired from Gaza since Israel's 22-day offensive against the Hamas rulers of the territory in December and January.

    Operation "Cast Lead", which led to more than 1,400 Palestinian deaths including hundreds of civilians and which devastated swathes of the coastal strip, was officially aimed at ending the firing of rockets from Gaza.
     
  5. alon9

    alon9 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Since this is just my second post on this forum...

    Since this is just my second post on this forum, may I be so bold and ask you all a few questions please?

    1. Am I the first Israeli to take part in this forum?

    2. What was the basis on which you formed your opinions before posting them on this forum?

    3. Have you ever lived in Israel, Gaza or Judea and Samaria? Because if you have, you have a clear and most powerful advantage in this kind of discussion over anyone else who can’t say the same - a personal stake, it is your HOME.

    4. Do you understand Hebrew or Arabic - the two languages in use by the two sides? Because if you do, you do not need to rely on translations alone in order to get at the important information and hear at least one of the sides in their own language.

    5. What people and what sources of news and information do you consider reliable enough to form a well founded, balanced opinion?

    I’ll finish with a remark on the title of this thread:
    Our conflict isn’t with a fictitious entity called “Palestine” but with all Arabs, hence it was and still is aptly named the “Arab-Israeli conflict”. Arab?Israeli conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    This is especially true when one reads the first post of this thread and is the reality in which we live, despite those who love to disregard or trivialize it.

    Do have a happy Jewish New Year and Shabat Shalom.
     
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,291
    Likes Received:
    11,485
    Location:
    BANGalore
    I think you are the first Israeli here. Welcome to DFI.

    Yes you may have problem with the entire Arab community, but it sure did start from the fact that you have a problem with the Palestenians. The Arabs support them because they (the Palestenians) are Arabs.

    Also Palestianian is a nationality, Arab is the entire people of that middle east itself. All Palestinians are Arabs, but all Arabs are not Palestinians.
     
  7. alon9

    alon9 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you Yusuf. :)
    Yusuf, are we children or are we responsible adults? Because only children care who started what or care to shift the blame to the other child, E.I. - “He did it!”.
    Fact remains we have peace accords only with 2 Arab countries out of 24 - only because those 22+ Arab countries have a personal vested interest as Arab states to keep Israel and Israeli’s (A.K.A. Jews) their eternal scapegoats (A.K.A. enemies). There can be no other rational reason for their staunch refusal for peace.
    A “fact” which I beg to differ. :)
    Indeed, and I was born yesterday and couldn’t figure this part out for myself until you wrote it here. :) Just kidding.

    Fact remains that there was no “Jordanian People” -EVER- in the history of human-kind, until the British were kind enough to reward King Abdullah I for his support. This fact is the same with many other Arab countries who have nothing to distinguish themselves from other Arab countries apart from political agenda’s of foreign nations.

    As for the “Philistines”, so long as they deny my right as a Jew to live in the only country founded by Jews for the JEWS, I will care enough to deny them any kind or form of imaginary “nationhood” or agree in any way that the Arabs who live in Gaza are different from the Arabs of Egypt or those of Judea and Samaria different from the average Jordanian.

    They are the same Arabs.
    The so called “difference” is purely a strategical/political one.
    So say we all.
     
  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,291
    Likes Received:
    11,485
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Its a big mess. On one hand its a political problem. On the other hand there is religion being played along.

    Yes Israel has the right to live in peace. I hope that one day everything will be fine out there.
     
  9. alon9

    alon9 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree on all accounts.
    Our problems are not simple, but I would like everyone to remember one thing when it comes to the Arab-Israeli conflict: it’s NEVER just about Israel vs. Philistinians, but 1 tiny Israel vs. 22 Oil-rich Arab countries + 1 Persian who effectively control the U.N. agenda, else no one can explain to me why ONLY the fake-people (A.K.A. the Philistines) have their own dedicated U.N. branch, the “United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East” => United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    No other refugee group on this planet enjoy a similar body of representation.

    Thank you very much Yusuf.
    Much appreciated.
    :)
     
  10. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,563
    Likes Received:
    23
    Yusufji the arab nations use the plastaniens as Political Captial and wepons aginst the Isralies the arabs are not at all concerned about the palstanies even a bit
     
  11. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,291
    Likes Received:
    11,485
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Yes i am aware of that. But then there has to be an end to all this at some point.
     
  12. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,563
    Likes Received:
    23
    no there wont be if this ended then where will the vested intrest go it will be a big slap in the face for all in the anti-Israle lobby
     
  13. youngindian

    youngindian Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,362
    Likes Received:
    73
    Obama and Palestine: Predictable disappointment

    As an early and enthusiastic Barack Obama supporter and a professor of international relations who teaches Middle East politics and American foreign policy, I have been often asked in class and in public forums, “What do you think Obama will do regarding Palestine?”My answers came down to that there was likely to be a dramatic improvement in the tone of American-Arab relations and with the Muslim world in general, but only within the limits of a continuing stalemate in Palestine.

    This prediction has turned out to be all too true, as welcome as better general relations are. I am more pessimistic now, nine months into the Obama administration. I would say now that even when or if the domestic agenda calms down, if some form of health care gets passed, the economy recovers and the withdrawal of troops in Iraq takes place as planned, there will be no substantive improvement in the plight of the Palestinians. Israel will continue its policy of changing the facts on the ground, each day making concessions on settlements, Jerusalem, the wall and a multitude of other anti-Palestinian activities all the more difficult.

    I have two reasons for this view -- one direct, one indirect. Although far from Palestine, the war in Afghanistan is now Obama’s war. This increasingly evident futile effort -- to do what? -- eliminate al-Qaeda? bring democracy to the country? secure Pakistan? The list grows with each headline. I realize the pledge to root out terrorist bases was largely a promise driven by the campaign. Democrats are eager to show they are as murderous as Republicans on any issue related to national security, especially during an election campaign. Obama, however, seems sincerely committed to his policy. “The right war, the right time. It is not a war of choice but of necessity.” So goes the rhetoric. What president ever says a war he supports is the wrong war fought at the wrong time and is not necessary? And of course the war in Afghanistan remains a politically cheap way to establish Obama’s national security credentials. How many Americans object to the killing of Muslims, so long as any connection, however tenuous, can be made with terrorism, however ill defined? Given the interconnectedness of political issues, Obama cannot afford to lose any domestic support. Muslims will thus continue to provide the pound of flesh demanded by the Shylocks of national security.

    Foreign policy elite retains hold on Palestine issue

    Although I more or less anticipated these dreary developments, I retained my hope for Obama’s Palestinian policy. Perhaps, I reasoned, by demonstrating “strength and resolve” in Afghanistan, he would buy some leeway in Palestine? Always a slender hope, this thread now seems severed. Despite the appointment of George Mitchell, the foreign policy elite which has dominated Palestinian issues for decades remains intact. Apart from some rhetorical flourishes, almost immediately recanted or “put into the context of our undying commitment to our greatest ally, Israel,” nothing has changed. Settlements expand, despite their manifest illegality and official condemnation by the UN, the US included sort of. The wall continues to lengthen, creating more misery for Palestinians. The military incursions continue at the slightest excuse, killing and maiming civilians, including women and children.

    I realize that Obama is much more skeptical than Bush-Cheney of Israel’s ultranationalist religious right. But how much difference will this make since the only viable opposition is also a right-wing party with a Palestinian platform virtually indistinguishable from the current extremist government that has avowed anti-Palestinian racists, like Avigdor Lieberman, in the cabinet? Let me suggest why I believe the Obama administration is not committed to substantive change in America’s policy toward Israel, which is to say America’s virtual absorption of the Israeli point of view in Palestine and the entire Middle East. Again, we must make an inference, since it is foolish to go by US rhetoric in this region. For any positive change to take place in Palestine, if America is to be taken seriously as an “honest broker” in the region, still the official policy, despite being thoroughly discredited, I believe it is imperative for Obama to discuss the danger of Israeli nuclear weapons.

    My principal reason for pessimism is that every time Obama or Hillary Clinton refer to the unacceptability of nuclear weapons in the Middle East, they refer to non-existent Iranian weapons and ignore hundreds of Israeli nuclear warheads. The American mantra reconfirmed by Obama-Clinton is “no nuclear weapons in the Middle East.” Who can disagree with this? Who wants nuclear weapons in the Middle East or anywhere else for that matter? The difficulty with the American mantra could not be more simple or compelling. It is false in its premises and false in the facts. Americans have accepted nuclear weapons in the Middle East, so long as they are Israeli. And Israel has had nuclear weapons for over 30 years, hundreds of war loads and missiles capable of reaching every capital in the region. Every time an American official intones the mantra that “nuclear weapons are unacceptable in the region,” the hypocrisy bell clangs. Therefore, my critical indicator of change in American policy regarding Palestine is this: Would Obama say that all nuclear weapons in the Middle East are unacceptable, including those of Israel? So far there has been a resounding silence, except for the hypocrisy bell. Clang! Clang!

    Much more is at stake than political consistency and the credibility dependent upon it. There is a much greater problem entailed in the mantra than a flagrant double standard. The very stability of the region, one of the principal objectives of American foreign policy, is being held hostage to this absurd mantra. So long as Israeli nuclear weapons are ignored, there can be no nuclear stability in the region. As every nuclear strategist knows, it is inherently unstable for only one adversary to have nuclear weapons. Nuclear deterrence, that is, nuclear stability, requires mutually assured destruction (MAD). This doctrine holds that stability requires that each nuclear power has the ability to retaliate effectively after the most devastating attack possible. This is called “second strike capability.” To be effective, it must inflict unacceptable damage to the nation which struck first. This has been the logic of nuclear stability ever since the Soviet Union developed its ability to strike the US. Its only assumption is the belief in the sanity of those who hold the nuclear triggers. Like it or not, precarious or not, MAD has worked. There is no reason to believe its fundamental logic no longer applies. It has applied regionally as well, as the case of India and Pakistan demonstrates.

    Of course, the assumption of sanity is properly called into question by religious and other fanatics. No one wants such true believers to have control of nuclear weapons. “Aha! Therefore, we have to stop the Iranians!” The problem with this corollary of the American mantra is that it ignores Israeli fanatics, who are more firmly in control of Israel and its nuclear weapons than Islamic fundamentalists are in control of Iran and its non-existent nuclear weapons. No one doubts that Israel would use nuclear weapons on the Arabs, whether or not they have been attacked with such weapons. Everyone fears that Israel, rather than be defeated, would resort to nuclear Armageddon. Indeed this is one of the principal reasons that America does all it can to avoid an Israeli defeat. To the degree this is true, American foreign policy is held hostage to the existence of the Israeli monopoly of nuclear weapons, a fortiori, when Israel is controlled by right-wing fanatics, as is the current case.

    There are alternatives to giving in to the threat of Masada. One is of course the denial of the American mantra. This would recognize the logic of deterrence by allowing Iran to develop a second strike capability vis-à-vis Israel. Or America could provide the second strike force by guaranteeing the nuclear security of every country in the region. America has provided nuclear deterrence for Japan for 60 years. America has made it clear that a Soviet or Russian attack on Europe would be considered an attack on the US. One can only wonder, however, if this protection applies to Muslim Turkey. If so, it has been kept very quiet. Or, thirdly, nuclear stability can be obtained by disarming Israel. Each of these options requires American acknowledgment of the existence and danger of Israeli nuclear weapons.

    Nuclear instability a risk

    Failure to do so condemns the region to nuclear instability, because (1) it gives Israel a free hand and (2) it gives other powers in the region an overwhelming incentive to develop their own deterrent capability. The American mantra that “nuclear weapons are unacceptable in the Middle East” is thus far more than hypocritical. It undermines American interests in the region, chiefly oil. And it imperils the lives and property of hundreds of millions of people. As a political realist, neither of these factors would, by itself or in combination, condemn American policy, if there were a reason to run these tremendous risks. What is this reason? The survival of Israel? There are two things wrong with making Israeli survival the predominant objective of American Middle East policy. It assumes that 5 million Israeli Jews are more important than more than 200 million Arabs, to say nothing of Turks and Iranians. No one even makes this argument in public, except the religious zealots of the Chosen People. Moreover, leaving human life aside, it assumes that resourceless Israel is more important than energy-rich Arab lands. Can one imagine an American capitalist making such an argument? Or an American motorist? From the realist perspective, unless it can be reasonably argued that Israel helps America meet its strategic objectives in the Middle East, America’s unquestioned support of Israel is absurd. One need not even get to the question of morality, the murder and oppression of millions of Palestinians, to conclude that America’s alliance with Israel comes at much too high a price.

    It is important to note that this conclusion does not even broach the difficult topics surrounding a viable Palestinian state. My point is that no serious discussion of these topics can be undertaken until American policy makers acknowledge the facts of Israel’s nuclear monopoly. For Israeli nuclear weapons have emboldened right-wing Israeli governments to further and deepen their oppression of the Palestinians. And Israeli nuclear weapons have intimidated American policy makers who do believe that a Palestinian state is not only just but necessary for good relations with the Arab world.

    I am compelled to warn that the next time we hear Obama intone the mantra that “nuclear weapons in the Middle East are unacceptable,” we should hear more than the “clang! clang!” of hypocrisy. We should hear the bell sounding the knell of political rationality. And what will take its place, if not the irrational forces of hatred, bigotry, racism and fanaticism?

    *Christopher Vasillopulos, Ph.D., is a professor of international relations at Eastern Connecticut State University.



    12 October 2009, Monday


    Obama and Palestine: Predictable disappointment by CHRISTOPHER VASILLOPULOS*
     
  14. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Location:
    Hyderabad and Sydney
    Although the parable was cuite balanced I want to clarify one point here that is quite often misconstrued.

    The partition of historic Palestine was based on Jewish majority and arab majority regions. The pre-1967 lands that were handed over to Israel were infact Jewish majority. These hews were native jews living there from the beginning under the Turkish Ottomans. The "migration" started to these areas only after WWII

    Now the wsidom behind the actual partition on the basis of religion can be debated, but the distribution of land was quite fair in that sense and the Arabs should have either accepted it or provided a better counter-proposal instead of denying right to self determination in the Jewish majority areas. For example, India had actually proposed a unitary state with a lose federal structure and autonomous Jewish and Arab provinces with safegaurds for minorities in each province.
    Check out this resource for some good info
    Myths & Facts Online - Partition

    On the second point, the initial struggle was purely a nationalist movement where Arabs including Christians were fighting a more extremist and radicalised Israeli society leading to the cycle of violence. It was only later that it was morphed into a religious Islamist and nationlist movement and got more and more radicalised.
    From a theological perspective, as long as the head of state allows full freedom of religion to practice and preach then control of East Jerusalem isn't a problem.

    Its more of an emotional/pride/nationalist issue which might not be so easy to resolve. Hence the need for East Jerusalem to be resolved with appriopiate reagard to Palestenians.
     
  15. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Location:
    Hyderabad and Sydney
    @alon9

    What do you think about the settlement expansion in the West bank? I know that there are very strong opinions for and against this among Israelis as well as overseas Jews mostly tilting towards an anti-settlement expansion stand
     
  16. alon9

    alon9 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    I’m a true Israeli patriot.
    I’m a proud Zionist.
    I voted for Benjamin Netanyahu for Prime Minister.
    And I love my country and support my government 100%.
    Saying all this will place me squarely on the right side of the political spectrum.

    This means that I support the right of Jews to live in their ancestral lands - 100%. That is not to say that I support banishment , discrimination or anything racist towards any Arab, nor does it mean that I don’t want peace. I support peace with all Arabs 100%.

    Please remember:
    1. That the clear majority of Israel’s population chose the right-wing political parties to represent them in the Knesset. One can easily and logically translate this to: “Most Israeli’s support Israeli’s and Jews right to live in Judea and Samaria”. As did all Israeli governments, ever since we stopped the Arab aggression of ‘67.

    2. That it was a left-wing government that supported the retreat of Israel of 96% of all Judea and Samaria, under the leadership of than Prime Minister Olmert, which has only managed to lead Israel to two wars: the one in Lebanon in 2006 and the last one in Gaza. At the same time, the last time Benjamin Netanyahu was prime minister (96-99), there were virtually no terror attacks perpetrated on Israel. From this one can conclude that a right wing party in government is not only a blessing for Israel but for Arabs as well.

    3. Remember WE - the Jewish people who live in Israel, will NEVER forget how we uprooted and banished 8,000+ Jews from their own homes and lands in Gush Katif in August of 2005, all in the name of peace and cooperation. What did we get for our pain and suffering? a world renown terror group in absolute control. A daily campaign of incitement to genocide. A rain of rocket attacks. More death and more terror.

    All of these facts resonate strongly with all Israeli’s and all Jews when they think about the lands where Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Salomon and all the Jewish prophets and all the historical monumental Jewish figures have once lived, fought, died and buried.

    Judea and Samaria hold the very heart of the Jewish experience: Jerusalem. Jerusalem that King David himself proclaimed his capital city. Jerusalem that is the only capital city of Israel and all the Jews. Jerusalem that was the site of Salomon’s temple and the second temple. Jerusalem that is mentioned in the bible 632 times but not mentioned once in the Quran. Jerusalem of the 1,204 synagogues.

    If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth If I do not remember you, If I do not exalt Jerusalem above my chief joy”. ~Psalm 137

    Sources
    Judea and Samaria Area - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Knesset - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Gush Katif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Israel's unilateral disengagement plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Benjamin Netanyahu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Psalms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  17. alon9

    alon9 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a very serious problem with this quote: “were fighting a more extremist and radicalised Israeli society leading to the cycle of violence”. It’s such a huge lie, it’s insane.

    1. The Arabs who lived in Judea and Samaria AFTER the partition and the creation of Israel were Jordanian Arabs. There was no such thing as “Palestinian”.
    2. The Arabs who lived in Gaza AFTER the partition and the creation of Israel were Egyptian Arabs. There was no such thing as “Palestinian”.
    3. Those Jordanians and Egyptians were engaged in terror attacks even back then, only it was known as “murder” or “theft” or “massacre”.


    Read: Palestinian Fedayeen - militants or guerrillas of a nationalist orientation from among the Palestinian people.
    Palestinian fedayeen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Or: List of attacks against Israeli civilians before 1967 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    The Jews bought land from Arabs who were happy to sell it, including the Arab mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem, and Jaffa. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73% of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners.

    • In 1931, the British offered new plots to any Arabs who had been “dispossessed.” Out of more than 3,000 applications, British officials found that 80% were false claims and not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.

    • In 1937 the British Peel Commission found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that “much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated
    when it was purchased.” To the extent there was a land shortage, the Commission found that it was “due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.”

    HISTORY:
    Jews avoided purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. According to British statistics, more than 70% of the land in what would become Israel was not owned by Arab farmers, it belonged to the mandatory government. Those lands reverted to Israeli control after the departure of the British. Nearly 9% of the land was owned by Jews and about 3% by Arabs who became citizens of Israel. That means only about 18% belonged to Arabs who left the country before and after the Arab invasion of Israel.

    Two Hundred Years War - The Historical Struggle for Peace, By Steve Kramer ,04 November 2007

    Israeli Government - http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism...me+First-+Terrorism+or+Occupation+-+Major.htm - Which Came First - Terrorism or "Occupation" ?

    JewishVirtualLibrary.org - Historic timeline of important events in Israel:
    Modern Israel & the Diaspora - (1950-1959) - Modern Israel & the Diaspora, (1950-1959)

    And:
    1920 Palestine riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1920
    Jaffa riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1921
    1929 Palestine riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1929
    Report of the Commission on the Palestine Disturbances of August, 1929, Cmd. 3530 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1929
    1936?1939 Arab revolt in Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1936
    1938 Tiberias massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1938
    1947?1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1947
    Arab Liberation Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1948
    Ben Yehuda Street bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1948
    Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1948
    Occupation of the Gaza Strip by Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1948
    Occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem by Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1948

    A brief history of the root of Arab terror, by Amos Ben Ami
    A Brief History of the Root of Arab Terror
     
  18. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    162
    The Palestinians' opposite poles

    Divide between Gaza and West Bank may affect thinking on an independent state

    By Howard Schneider
    Tuesday, December 15, 2009

    [​IMG]
    Two brothers, one living in Gaza and the other in the West Bank, reside in opposite poles of Palestine, each increasingly distinct, adding fresh obstacles to the quest for a two-state solution that envisions Israel and Palestine side-by-side

    [​IMG]

    JABALYA, GAZA STRIP -- Sami and Tayseer Barakat grew up together in the concrete warrens of this refugee camp in Gaza, but the common thread ends there.

    As young adults, Tayseer moved to the West Bank while Sami remained in Gaza. The choices have shaped the brothers' lives, values, prosperity and opportunities, and they have placed the two at very different points in what is now a three-way feud among Israelis and Palestinians.

    More than ever before, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank represent opposite poles of a future state of Palestine, each increasingly distinct, adding fresh obstacles to the quest for a two-state solution that envisions Israel and Palestine existing side by side. Gaza has become imbued with a narrow Islamist culture that considers Israel's elimination the ultimate goal; the West Bank, in contrast, has become relatively open and secular, with its government trying to resolve disputes with Israel through politics and diplomacy.

    In the process, the two Palestinian territories have grown increasingly antagonistic toward each other.

    The notion of a single "Palestine" seems to be receding, for the Barakat brothers and all Palestinians, a process accelerated by Israeli policies that restrict travel into and out of the Gaza Strip and limit its economic growth in a bid to undercut support for the area's ruling Islamist Hamas movement. Gaza and the West Bank are not only run by competing governments but also differ in indicators such as birthrates, population growth, cultural and religious attitudes, and prosperity. What is a two-hour car trip seems like a world away, with travel and other restrictions making it difficult for friends to visit and family members to gather.

    Where the West Bank is enjoying renewed economic growth and an emerging sense of possibility, Gaza -- dependent on foreign aid even in the best of times, because of its large refugee population -- has become a place of makeshift jobs, handouts and smuggled goods, still not able or allowed to rebuild after a punishing three-week war with Israel that began last December.

    Doubts have deepened about how and whether two places so different can be knit back together. As the different lives being lived by the Barakat brothers suggest, the divergence has a momentum of its own.

    In one, an aspiring lot

    On a Thursday in the West Bank, men and women gather at Ramallah's Ziryab restaurant for the start of the weekend. They sip beer and smoke in a room decorated with original art and sculpture, much of it made by Tayseer Barakat, the owner and the younger of the Barakat brothers.

    There's a new burst of activity in Ramallah, the center of cultural and political life for the West Bank's 2.4 million Palestinians. Construction cranes slice the sky, and bulldozers clear large lots for the next project. There are film festivals and investment companies, new shopping centers and planned communities.
    ad_icon

    Though the West Bank remains occupied by Israel and suffered years of violence during an intifada, or uprising, this decade, Barakat has seen his horizons gradually open. He arrived here in the mid-1980s after attending art school in Egypt, looking for a livelihood that would leave time to paint and sculpt. After teaching for a few years, he pursued a more independent path, opening a restaurant and redecorating it by hand with a modern and elegant collection of artwork.

    Ramallah was the ideal spot. It had a professional class that could afford a night out, returning expatriates who might splurge on a painting and the cultural temperament to let him do what he wanted.

    "The situation here -- it is like giving someone an aspirin," said Barakat, 50. "It could change at any time. But compared to Gaza, it is good."

    The politics of struggle has been replaced by a more aspirational sensibility. On a recent fall afternoon, Barakat prepared to say goodbye to his son, Odai, 18, who is soon leaving to study at Eastern Mediterranean University in Cyprus.

    It's a routine family passage, but it is profound in the Palestinian context. Tayseer Barakat is among the few Gazans allowed by Israel to shift his legal address to the West Bank -- a change in status that, among other things, means predictable access to the world beyond.

    Odai hopes to study film and then return to make his contribution to Palestinian society. It has nothing to do with reconquering land, he said, but reflects an idea taking root in the West Bank -- to help put a bandage on old wounds so they can heal and give rise to something new and durable.

    "The first film I'll make will be about the Palestinian cause. I'll tell the story," he said, likening his vision to the movie "Braveheart" and its tale of Scotland's rise alongside England. The Scottish leader William Wallace was not trying to destroy the English, Odai pointed out, but was attempting to carve out a place for his people on land of their own.

    In the other, a grim lot

    In Gaza, Sami Barakat gave his children strict instructions as an uprising against Israel raged through the first years of the decade: Stay away from protest sites such as the Erez crossing into Israel. On an October day in 2000, that advice came undone. Yousef Barakat, then 13, boarded a bus headed to a rally at Erez. Later that day, a rubber bullet hit him in the head.

    He survived but lost sight in his right eye. A plaque displayed in the family's living room, sent to Yousef by the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, honors "the blessed intifada, that you enflamed, and gave it your blood, which scents the Palestinian sand."

    Yousef, now 22, is studying history at al-Quds University and has no clear sense of what will follow his upcoming graduation. Under the strategy that Israel has employed in Gaza, that lack of opportunity should lead the young man to certain conclusions: reject Hamas, reconcile with the rival government in the West Bank and then with Israel, and see Gaza reopened to the world.

    But the incident nine years ago left its mark. If the West Bank branch of the Barakat family views coexistence with Israel as important, the Barakat branch in Gaza is not so sanguine. Although hardly radical and not supportive of violence -- the family members here say they are disenchanted with aspects of Hamas's governance -- the children, in particular, do not envision peace.

    "There is no chance to coexist," Yousef said. "Israel does not want peace."

    Israel's rules have choked off the economy in Gaza, increasing poverty and despair among its 1.5 million people. In addition, since winning elections two years ago, Hamas has shut down much of the cultural and political life.
    ad_icon

    The seaside nightspots that began to develop here in the 1980s and 1990s, a more open era, are now limited to ragged tea huts and a handful of hotels and clubs that host international visitors and the well-to-do.

    There are no cinemas and little nightlife. Even seemingly nationalist events -- the anniversary of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's death or an annual Palestinian independence day -- are shaped to reflect Hamas's aim of building a "resistance society" hunkered down for a long-haul struggle. That means tough going for anyone trying to build a business.

    Sami Barakat, 55, ran a small grocery store near Jabalya before learning the money-changing trade and opening an office. It let him pay the bills and buy a house. But of late, being a money-changer is a losing proposition in an economy with little cash and little commerce with the rest of the world. He now depends on whatever Tayseer Barakat and a brother in the United States can contribute each month.

    Nor are things much easier for the one member of the family who sees his future in religion -- what might be considered Gaza's growth industry.

    Mohammed Barakat, 23, just graduated from Gaza's Islamic University with a degree in Islamic law and hoped for appointment as an imam at a mosque. He sees himself as a sort of bridge, strict in his observance of Islam's social aspects but against the use of violence against Israel.

    But he is not a member of Hamas. As a result, his ideas won't be heard from the pulpit at Friday prayers.

    "The problem is that people who rely on their emotions are the majority," he said. "I try to convince them that you should react out of logic. They call me a coward."

    washingtonpost.com
     
  19. enlightened1

    enlightened1 Member of The Month JANUARY 2010

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    The Paradise Island


    [​IMG]
    'Assassinated': Mahmoud al-Mabhouh

    Israel has assassinated a senior Hamas military commander in Dubai who played a major role in a Palestinian uprising in the 1980s, an official in the Islamist group revealed today.

    Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, who has been a target since engineering the capture of Israeli soldiers in the 1980s, was killed on January 20 - the day after he arrived in Dubai.

    He was found dead in his hotel room in Dubai without any injuries to his body, a Palestinian source said.

    He had barricaded the door of his room with chairs, a standard precaution by a man who felt that Israeli intelligence had been after his head for 20 years.

    ‘It seems that an autopsy was ordered and found traces of poison in his body,' a source said.

    'Mabhouh was also ill. Hamas controls the information on this.

    ‘Being in Syria, Mabhouh was not directly involved in Hamas's military operations. He was one of their main military guys, although not a crucial figure.’

    The death of Mabhouh, 50, lengthens Hamas's list of what it describes as ‘martyrs’, and constitutes another setback for the group, which has defied Israel and refuses to abandon its fight against the Jewish state.

    Israeli officials were not prepared to comment.

    Israel has killed dozens of leaders and military figures in Hamas, which was founded two decades ago as a religious resistance movement against Israeli occupation.

    ‘I cannot reveal the circumstances (of the killing). We are working with the authorities in the United Arab Emirates,’ said Izzat al-Rishq, who is a member of Hamas's politburo.

    He added Mabhouh was an ‘important’ member of Izz el-Deen al- Qassam brigades, Hamas's military wing named after a Syrian religious leader who fought British colonial forces in Palestine in the 1930s.

    Mabhouh was born in the Gaza Strip but had been living in Syria since 1989.

    Syria and Iran are the main backers of Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip.

    Rishq, who lives in exile in Damascus, along with several of Hamas's main figures, said Mabhouh engineered the capture of two Israeli soldiers during the Palestinian uprising in the 1980s. The soldiers were later killed.

    Mabhouh was imprisoned several times by Israeli forces. Israel razed his home in Gaza, Rishq added.

    A diplomat in Damascus said it was too early to say if Mabhouh's past was linked to his death.

    ‘The Israelis have a long memory for sure, but one cannot draw conclusions yet. It might be easier for the Israelis to kill him in Dubai than in Damascus,’ the diplomat said.

    The U.S., which has started a rapprochement with Damascus, wants Syrian authorities to help neutralise Hamas as an armed Middle East force.

    Syria, which is seeking peace with Israel, resisted U.S. pressure several years ago to expel the Hamas leadership.

    Hamas also has a presence in Lebanon.

    A bomb in Beirut killed two of its members in December 2008.
     
  20. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,291
    Likes Received:
    11,485
    Location:
    BANGalore
    A lesson for india. Do the same to those SOBs like Saeed, Azhar, Dawood etc
     

Share This Page