Indian Army wants futuristic vehicle for its Armoured corps

[karn]

A more logical answer than any other but still as an engineer I will be skeptical. Lets see how this progresses. And RFI should atleast have the spec boundaries (e.g. weight<50 tonnes) etc.

No .. first the army asks ... can you make a <50 ton tank .. if so how ?
If no one can make <50 ton tank . Then specifications will says <60/70 ton or whatever.
First this happens
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Request_for_information
Then this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Request_for_proposal
And you think there is competition with DRDO ... Its almost like we know nothing of the TATA CVRDE kestrel.

 

[Rowdy]

No .. first the army asks ... can you make a <50 ton tank .. if so how ?
First this happens
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Request_for_information
Then this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Request_for_proposal
And you think there is competition with DRDO ... Its almost like we know nothing of the TATA CVRDE kestrel.

OK I will hold off for now.... I know what RFI & RFP mean .... let us see how this MMRCA pt 2 develops.

 

[bose]

What is requirement for IA a <50 T or > 60 T ? I fail to understand ... both can not be at the same time ... both represent different concepts...

 

[Mad Indian]

No .. first the army asks ... can you make a <50 ton tank .. if so how ?
If no one can make <50 ton tank . Then specifications will says <60/70 ton or whatever.
First this happens
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Request_for_information
Then this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Request_for_proposal
And you think there is competition with DRDO ... Its almost like we know nothing of the TATA CVRDE kestrel.

And that's why I would trust only professionals(in this case army) and not fanboys of DRDO

 

[Mad Indian]

What is requirement for IA a <50 T or > 60 T ? I fail to understand ... both can not be at the same time ... both represent different concepts...

Indian army wants only <50ton tanks. Bhadra already answered it. That is also one of the reasons Arjun was not inducted in big numbers.

 

[karn]

What is requirement for IA a <50 T or > 60 T ? I fail to understand ... both can not be at the same time ... both represent different concepts...

Just read my post . It is step to find out what is possible or not with a tank,

Indian army wants only <50ton tanks. Bhadra already answered it. That is also one of the reasons Arjun was not inducted in big numbers.

Not really ... This is brand new direction .. This not FMBT.

 

[Kharavela]

modi is going to Russia in November.....so we need to buy something from them.....ab kuch kharidna hi hai to armata hi thik hai

क्यों भाई, अगर खरिदने की जरुरत ही है, तो रुस से दस-बारह पनडुब्बि (Submarine) खरिद लो । वास्तव में जरुरत तो पनडुब्बियों की है ।

 

[bose]

Indian army wants only <50ton tanks. Bhadra already answered it. That is also one of the reasons Arjun was not inducted in big numbers.

fair enough, then it have to a three man crew with auto loader to keep it < 50 T, it come out to be upgraded version of T-72 / T-90, even the T-14 is > 55 T as far as I know...

It is interesting to see how much improvement can be done on above of T-90 while keeping weight < 50 T, even smaller T-90's are > 50 T now with Indian armour ...

 

[Mad Indian]

Just read my post . It is step to find out what is possible or not with a tank,

Not really ... This is brand new direction .. This not FMBT.

Hmm. Makes sense. So DRDO won't be participating in this race ?

 

[Mad Indian]

fair enough, then it have to a three man crew with auto loader to keep it < 50 T, it come out to be upgraded version of T-72 / T-90, even the T-14 is > 55 T as far as I know...

It is interesting to see how much improvement can be done on above of T-90 while keeping weight < 50 T, even smaller T-90's are > 50 T now with Indian armour ...

And I don't understand their philosophy either . if some expert can give us insight on it, it would be great. I mean every western country is having heavy tanks and they have proven to be devastating against the Russian tanks.

For instance, I read that one M1Abrams took out seven Iraqi tanks in the desert single handedly and still could not be destroyed. It was only salavged part by part since it had some engine failure or something.

Now that is the kind of tanks I want in Indian army

 

[karn]

Hmm. Makes sense. So DRDO won't be participating in this race ?

Read what Bhadra posted .. The army is literally even asking how the entire process should happen /industry is most comfortable with . DRDO holds intellectual property that can be used on this tank.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Well you are doing it again by insulting Government organization ..

Yes, but there is no contradiction in what I said- DRDO is indeed a typical govt org .

 

[Mad Indian]

Well you are doing it again by insulting Government organization ..

Yes of course . Other than a very few rare exceptions like Army, all government orgs are bad in their execution of projects and work ethics and DRDO is no exception

 

[Mad Indian]

Read what Bhadra posted .. The army is literally even asking how the entire process should happen /industry is most comfortable with . DRDO holds intellectual property that can be used on this tank.

But someone claimed DRDO dropped out of this proposal?

 

[karn]

And I don't understand their philosophy either . if some expert can give us insight on it, it would be great. I mean every western country is having heavy tanks and they have proven to be devastating against the Russian tanks.

For instance, I read that one M1Abrams took out seven Iraqi tanks in the desert single handedly and still could not be destroyed. It was only salavged part by part since it had some engine failure or something.

Now that is the kind of tanks I want in Indian army

I am hardly an expert but one thing must be understood . More weight does not automatically mean better protection. Compare the leopard 1 and the t 55 . The t 55 weighs 36 tons the leopard weighs 40 tons . Armour of t55 is built to withstand 84(20 pounder) 88mm and 90mm full bore AP shells . The leopard 1 is meant to only withstand 20 mm shells.
M1 abrams in iraq are now being destroyed by terrorists on toyota pickup trucks using 30 year old kornets .It does not mean that toyota trucks are better.
Look a perfectly modern well protected tank under 50 tons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_10

 

[bose]

Just read my post . It is step to find out what is possible or not with a tank,
.

I get your point or argument, I think IA have to make up it mind how it is going to deploy the tanks, if IA thinks of deploying faster & smaller tanks in large numbers against its adversary then it is fair to go for < 50 T else the western concept of more safety [ with larger armour ] and lesser mobility then it can go > 60T...

IA have to finalize their deployment strategy for Tanks...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Now your post make sense, But your knowledge abt DRDO is very limited ..

Yes of course . Other than a very few rare exceptions like Army, all government orgs are bad in their execution of projects and work ethics and DRDO is no exception

 

[Mad Indian]

Now your post make sense, But your knowledge abt DRDO is very limited ..

I know enough to not trust anything DRDO says. Be it deadline or capability. I will trsut them only if army certifies them by inducting their equipment in large enough numbers.

 

[Kharavela]

From the RFI of FRCV, it is pretty much understood that the persons responsible for drafting RFI must have burned midnight oil to think of "Vague" terms like HIGH, MEDIUM etc which can be defined later as per convenience. Indeed DFI members could have drafted a better spec sheet.

If at all, IA has to think for Futuristic MBT, can't they think of "Unmanned" Tanks ?

At the cost of 1 MBT, 3-4 Unmanned Tanks could be built as they would not require high degree of defensive armour and could be expendable at any point of time. This cost advantage should be translated to number of units produced & inducted, possibly in the range of 10-15 thousands.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

And your trust based on ? , Are you an user or worked with them personally ..

If you don`t have either, It is best to stop DRDO or any other bashing ..

I know enough to not trust anything DRDO says. Be it deadline or capability. I will trsut them only if army certifies them by inducting their equipment in large enough numbers.