France Trumps UK as Strongest EU Power

[Armand2REP]

That's a fact. Looks like no force in the world has answer to IED's & RPG's in hands of a well trained, motivated & funded militia. We have been seeing this pattern since more than 50 years. Absolutely, no one has been able to contain insurgency in a foreign country, be it US/USSR/India/NATO countries, simply no one.

Anyway, NATO forces are toothless without US taking the lead because they simply do not have requisite manpower for absolute area domination, in such protracted conflicts. The only saving grace is advent of UCAV's/drones.

I guess France is the answer. Our operation in Mali went flawlessly against that very kind of enemy in an area bigger than Afghanistan. We did it without the US or anyone else. We are simply the only ones that have done it and the world is getting schooled on our accomplishments.

 

[TrueSpirit]

I guess France is the answer. Our operation in Mali went flawlessly against that very kind of enemy in an area bigger than Afghanistan. We did it without the US or anyone else. We are simply the only ones that have done it and the world is getting schooled on our accomplishments.

Mali, definitely, was a success by any means. France deserves all the applause & envy coming their way. But as already know, France cannot repeat the feat in Af-stan.

Mali, i would say, was a lot simpler conflict where you knew the enemy, where is coming from & terrain or polity was not as treacherous, as in Af-stan.

In Af-stan, there are multiple dimensions to the conflict, owing to which the Taliban could not be militarily subjugated even with drones & the latest in US/NATO arsenal.

Rafale was there all along. I doubt, if it managed to wreck any damage on Taliban. France, actually, had a distant secondary role in Af-stan, where it really matters.

In other words, it is on the Af-stan soil (not Mali) where the MEN are distinguished from the BOYS.

 

[Armand2REP]

Mali, definitely, was a success by any means. France deserves all the applause & envy coming their way. But as already know, France cannot repeat the feat in Af-stan.

It was not our goal to conquer Astan, we were part of a coalition which assigned us an area. We did our job.

Mali, i would say, was a lot simpler conflict where you knew the enemy, where is coming from & terrain or polity was not as treacherous, as in Af-stan.

Maybe in the population centres, but the Ifoghas mountains were just as if not more treacherous than Astan.

In Af-stan, there are multiple dimensions to the conflict, owing to which the Taliban could not be militarily subjugated even with drones & the latest in US/NATO arsenal.

The Taliban has been militarily subjugated since NATO got there with a few exceptions in Helmand where the British chickened out. Thinking about the French Resistance in WWII and the damage we did to the Nazis, the Taliban resistance has been meek to practically non-existent. Even the Sunni insurgency in Iraq was 10X more violent than the pathetic efforts of the Taliban. What have they been able to stop... nothing. Think about what the Chechens did against Russia, now that was a resistance.

Rafale was there all along. I doubt, if it managed to wreck any damage on Taliban. France, actually, had a distant secondary role in Af-stan, where it really matters.

It wasn't there all along, just when CdG was in the IOR or an occasional deployment. France had a primary role in Astan, cleaning the provinces around Kabul.

In other words, it is on the Af-stan soil (not Mali) where the MEN are distinguished from the BOYS.

Not at all. They haven't succeeded in anything accept surviving.

 

[TrueSpirit]

It was not our goal to conquer Astan, we were part of a coalition which assigned us an area. We did our job.

That is what I am talking about. France played a limited role.

Maybe in the population centres, but the Ifoghas mountains were just as if not more treacherous than Astan.

We can discuss this.

The Taliban has been militarily subjugated since NATO got there with a few exceptions in Helmand where the British chickened out. Thinking about the French Resistance in WWII and the damage we did to the Nazis, the Taliban resistance has been meek to practically non-existent. Even the Sunni insurgency in Iraq was 10X more violent than the pathetic efforts of the Taliban. What have they been able to stop... nothing. Think about what the Chechens did against Russia, now that was a resistance

Yes, that's right. But they attacked Kabul's secure compounds with impunity & afflicted damage.

It wasn't there all along, just when CdG was in the IOR or an occasional deployment.

The crux is, for the duration Rafale was there, it did not demonstrate any pounding of Taliban hideouts.

France had a primary role in Astan, cleaning the provinces around Kabul.

I won't argue about "role" in Af-stan because we know better, right?

Not at all. They haven't succeeded in anything accept surviving.

Are you serious ? US has already been forced to surrender its policy of non negotiating with declared terrorists. All 3 tenets of US policy is Af-stan has been given two hoots by Taliban: Taliban never abandoned violence, never abandoned Al-Qaida & did not recognize the Afghan Constitution & Parliament. Still, Kerry was in Qatar, recently, even when Taliban have made it pretty clear that they would not compromise on their agenda. US has virtually legalized Taliban through this act. It is not difficult to see, who won & who lost, after 1 trillion $ were wasted in Af-stan quagmire. US-NATO failed in Af-stan & Saudi-Paki-ISI-Taliban nexus won.

It was a battle of resolve & wits, & then, a battle of attrition. US-NATO forces owing to their domestic compulsions got war-weary & had to return, & now it is a free run for Taliban. Would you call that a military victory ? It is lot worse than Vietnam for US & France, in terms of its far-reaching ramifications.