Finland's courts crack down on hate speech and inciting hatred

[jouni]

Define negative effects.

Who created the norms for negative and positive effects ?

Negative effect could be like teasing at school for being two dads, actually it is proven otherwise; other kids are jealous for those who have two dads. This has been studied from the 70's.

 

[jouni]

Very brave. Congratulations.



Actually, since you guys care so much about the homos, instead of sending stamps, why don't you just give a free pass to the homos in Russia and everywhere else to settle in Finlands.
That way the Finns can be happy, the homos can marry, be happy, adopt poor helpless kids, do whatever they want and everybody else in other countries will also not care.
Why don't you do this instead of sending homo stamps to Russia.

Well, of course we know the answer. It's not because you give a damn about homosexuals but you simply want to foment revolutions, create trouble and cause problems for Russia.

Actually some Russians have been given asylum in Finland because they are gays and could be in danger in Russia.

 

[Razor]

Negative effect could be like teasing at school for being two dads, actually it is proven otherwise; other kids are jealous for those who have two dads. This has been studied from the 70's.

That's trivial. That's not a negative effect. I've gotten bullied by seniors. I have bullied juniors. It happens in schools/colleges, that is how you learn. Teasing is for -------.

To some people negative effect would be how two gays parents will affect the lifestyles and psychology of the young malleable mind, how it will affect the child's interactions with others/society as he grows up and most importantly how it could affect his own kid, if he has or adopts one.

Actually some Russians have been given asylum in Finland because they are gays and could be in danger in Russia.

Lots of gays are suffering in Mid-East, North Africa and Sub-Sahara. Take them also. :thumb:

Plus another reason why you guys in Europe allow immigration is because you guys are not able to reach replacement rate your self. So you have to resort to immigration. It has its benefits and also its perils :thumb:

 

[Razor]

In this instance, I am inclined to agree with Ghost and Jouni. In the past, inter-racial marriages were frowned upon, but soon they've become common. So SSM may be frowned upon by conservative elements, but society will evolve anyway. That's life. Things change. Marriage may have been defined in a certain way many centuries ago, but we're not living in those centuries anymore. We're living in the 21st century. Times change, so the way we define things will also change. Even words, ideas, and concepts change. Society has to adapt and move forward.

You need to understand that moving forward need not be along a single path, there are many different paths.
Only time will tell which paths were "right" and which were "wrong."

 

[DingDong]

You need to understand that moving forward need not be along a single path, there are many different paths.
Only time will tell which paths were "right" and which were "wrong."

Any copy from the west is thought to be progressive, regressive otherwise. We know well how some good Christians have reacted to the idea of teaching Yoga in schools. Sexual independence is really feasible only in a societies where people are economically independent and well-off, not in countries like India where parents keep investing in their overgrown 30 year old kids.

 

[Ray]

In this instance, I am inclined to agree with Ghost and Jouni. In the past, inter-racial marriages were frowned upon, but soon they've become common. So SSM may be frowned upon by conservative elements, but society will evolve anyway. That's life. Things change. Marriage may have been defined in a certain way many centuries ago, but we're not living in those centuries anymore. We're living in the 21st century. Times change, so the way we define things will also change. Even words, ideas, and concepts change. Society has to adapt and move forward.

Your post indicate a penchant for deviate views i.e. not mainstream.

So, nothing unusual to crow about.

 

[jouni]

I am glad that so many Indians support this or are neutral. You are not so backwards, racist and narrow minded that I feared.

 

[Ray]

Any copy from the west is thought to be progressive, regressive otherwise. We know well how some good Christians have reacted to the idea of teaching Yoga in schools. Sexual independence is really feasible only in a societies where people are economically independent and well-off, not in countries like India where parents keep investing in their overgrown 30 year old kids.

In modern urban India, there are enough to ape the West, just to show that they are really 'hep' and 'in' or 'cool'.

I heard of Thanksgiving party being hosted in the hep metros of India!

As Americans the world over sit down to a family dinner on Thanksgiving Day, enjoying homely fare like chicken pot pie and the piece de resistance that makes Thanksgiving special - roast turkey, expats and foodies in India plan to do the same, albeit at restaurants.

It's a trend that could lead to Thanksgiving and Halloween being firmly placed on the Indian festival calendar. Jay Singh, co-founder and executive director, JSM Corporation, which runs fine-dining restaurant Shiro in Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore, says, "For most restaurants and hotels, this as an opportunity to create an event to drive up footfalls. Valentine's Day and Halloween are both Western concepts, but our events around it ensure an increase in footfalls of around 20%-40%. Most of this is made up of locals, not expats,"
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...brate-and-say-thanks/articleshow/10849399.cms

Thanksgiving!

I thought Thanksgiving Day is a national holiday celebrated primarily in the United States and Canada as a day of giving thanks for the blessing of the harvest and of the preceding year and that it has its historical roots in religious and cultural traditions. I believe Pilgrims and Puritans who began emigrating from England to America in the 1620s and 1630s carried the tradition of Days of Fasting and Days of Thanksgiving with them to New England.

How does it then have even the remotest connection with India to celebrate it here?

 

[DingDong]

I am glad that so many Indians support this or are neutral. You are not so backwards, racist and narrow minded that I feared.

I am glad that you guys have stopped burning witches. Now stop discriminating against your racial minorities.

 

[Ray]

Among children raised by same-sex couples, the report notes a significant increase in low self-esteem, stress, confusion regarding sexual identity, an increase in mental illness, drug use, promiscuity, STD's, and homosexual behaviour, amongst others. Furthermore, the report shows that statistics have brought to light the fact that same-sex relationships betray a much higher instance of separation and break-up than heterosexual relationships, increasing the likelihood that the child will experience familial instability.

The Spanish Association of Pediatrics firmly backs up the findings of the report, stating that a "family nucleus with two fathers or two mothers is clearly dangerous for the child".
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/experts-worldwide-find-gay-adoption-harmful-for-children

 

[ghost]

@Razor Sir,

Your statement is false, or to be more precise, not complete.

As of now, the best science can say is that the causes of homosexuality can be a varying mix of biological factors like genes and environmental factors like psychology, societal contact and so on.

It is undeniable that children learn a lot from their parents. So parents who are homosexual will knowingly or unknowingly pass some ideas and some children may knowingly or unknowingly accept some of those ideas. Why let children born to other people be filled with these ideas ?

First of all let me be clear that I neither@jouni sir ,nor "Finland" is promoting,advertising or suggesting that you or anyone should convert to "homosexuality",all we are saying is that this discrimination ,hate,and looking down upon them, is not right and should be stopped.They have done nothing wrong to deserve it.

Regarding rest of your point,Your statement is wrong .Homosexual are born homosexual ,it is other thing they would realize it later in their life,you cannot "make" someone homosexual.

Homosexual behavior has been observed in 1,500 animal species,there is no psychology,societal or upbringing factors here.

Also homosexuality decreases reproductive success. So from an evolutionary perspective as far as the reproductive stand point is concerned, homosexuality is a defect.

First of all "sex" is not all about reproduction,else why would we do it even after sterilization,or use condom ,or even masturbate.A person can be born or become impotent ,suffer sexual dysfunction ,does that take away other aspect of his personality,is he not allowed to have emotions,should he be hated,can't he love others and display it through marriage.Homosexuality can be defined as natural methods of population control.It is not a "religion" that you can convert,it's natural either you have it or you don't.There have been many case where homosexual men have married to women and had children but later on divorced and admitted to being homosexual.Because when something is natural,something is inside you ,you cannot run away from it even if you wish to under society pressure.If you are homo you will be attracted to boys ,no matter how much you shout that you hate it,this is fact.

Not to mention the greatly increased risk of spread of STDs.

Wow !Homosexual increase the risk of STD,then what about straight men and women, those who indulge in sexual acts with multiple numbers of partners.Sir, wake up! STD is spread through unsafe sex,not "same sex".

And finally, polls have consistently shown that in countries like Russia, China and India, and a vast chunk of E. Europe (including NATO Poland) and Mid-East, homosexuality is not at all welcome by the public; only a small minority is acceptive of homosexuality and its virulent spreading through Western propaganda apparatus.
Why should the West be allowed to preach to us what we may or may not do ?
Who the ---- are they to preach to us ?

A crowd does not make one right.No one is preaching anyone,it's about respecting our fellow human being who are discriminated on false grounds,and are looked down upon for something as pure as 'love' over which they don't have any control.

Not sure why you brought in religion into this, but okay.

How many texts of "Hinduism" discuss Homosexuality ? Kamasutra ? Manusmriti (third gender) ? What else ?

How many discuss them in a 1.) positive manner (I doubt any), 2.) negative manner and 3.) neutral manner.

Forget "Hinduism", that is a Western term.
How many core texts of the Vedic system discuss homosexuality in a positive manner and how many of them discuss them in a kinda "these exist, now moving to next topic" manner ?

I brought religion just to reflect on our past,how they were more tolerant than us.

Homosexual are men and women who have other preference regarding sex and attraction,there is nothing to be discussed in positive or negative manner,they are normal human being other than their sexual preference.It is deeds of humans, what makes history speak of them in positive and negative manner,not their sexual preference.Alexander was bi- sexual,does it overshadow his other traits.

Regarding ancient Hindu text about homosexuality I would like to quote someone from other forum.

I have been reading this book on the third-sex (as it is called in vedic scriptures). It speaks overwhelmingly of how Homosexuality was know and accept in ancient Hindu culture, especially within the Vedic Religious culture of higher ages. According to this book it was not until foreign envaders came in did Hindu culture begin to shun homosexuals.

In the days of Arjuna and Krishna, the third-sex people would come and offer prayers and blessings during the birth of a child. And they were well known for the arts and dance and they were also renunciants and priests. They lived in communites where they sometimes loved and married one another.

The Manusmriti (a vedic medical text) 3.49 states:

A male child is produced by a greater quantity of male seed, a female child by the prevalance of the femal; if both are equal a third-sex child or boy girl twins are producedl if either are weak or deficient in quanity, a falure of conception results.


The third-sex or gay/lesbian/trans/bisexual person is also much discussed in the Kama Sutra. I do not mean the sex manuals that now cover the western world but the actual Sutra itself often in detail describes the mode of actions of Gay and Lesbians, thousands of years ago. They were part of Vedic culture, they were accepted and were never made to feel ashame as we now see in more recent years.


For anyone who is gay, or knows someone who is or just seeks to have better understanding of the LGBT community, how it relates to ancient and modern culture I highly recommend this book. It is well put together, there are many scriptural references as well as scientific findings to back up the fact that Gays are created at conception, and that sexual orientation whether gay or straight can not be learned or changed.

I had my local unity bookstore order this book for me. I am sure that if you are interested you could purchase it from amazon or a local book seller.

The authors name is Amara Das Wilhelm, he is a scholar he has a background in medical research and he is a devotee of lord Krishna and has been for many years.


I urge you to read this book if you ever have had a question of "is it normal?", or is it natural? The vedas confirm what many LGBT person already knows, yes this is very natural and to be any other would would not be.
I am very greatful to the Gay and Lesbian Viashnava Association for making me aware of this most wonderful book that shows LGBT people in a positive light in ancient spiritual culture.


What really prompted me to get this book is that I have read of other Gay devotees in SRF that felt that they were not treated fairly or were denied positions in SRF groups or at centers simply because they are gay. I wanted to find a way to share with my spiritual family that we are no different and regardless of what fundamentalists may say, God created us this way. There is nothing wrong with how God created us, we are still your brothers and sisters and we just want to love and serve God as do you. So I wanted to educate myself as well as others, especially the leaders of our beloved SRF so that there will be some sort of policy set in place for non-discrimination through-out SRF/YSS world wide. Our Guru was against any form of prejudice and discrimination. May all of his spiritual children hold the same love and non judgement in our hearts.

Homosexuality and Vedic Culture - A Place for Paramahansa Yogananda Devotees

Let's live in peace and let Homosexual live in peace,do not spread this terrorism of hate, that who does not comply to your sexual belief should be hated,and disgusted upon.Do not make someone feel guilty for the way he was born ,as he is only following his heart and practicing consensual love just like each and everyone of us do.

 

[jouni]

[MAP][/MAP]

This clearly is an issue dihiding east and west IMHO also the maturity of the society.

 

[Ray]

I wonder if any has any hassle against Homosexuals or Bisexuals.

It is all about parenting not being totally conducive for psychological and societal balance.

 

[jouni]

 

[pmaitra]

@ghost, largely disagree. Homosexuality is not natural. It is unnatural. The comparison is not natural vs artificial. The comparison is natural vs unnatural.

@jouni, a child must be raised by a male and female, because, the male and the female side imparts two different and complementary traits and training to the growing child; and so that that they raise the child with dedication, it is necessary to increase their stakes in the raising the child, and one way to raise the stakes is to ensure that the child is raised by its biological parents.

Studies have shown that most studies conclude what the sponsor of the study wants it the conclude. Studies that say it is natural are either politically motivated, or performed under monetary incentive or political duress.

@Razor, folks in some parts of the world are under a lot of pressure to conform to one idea. Notice, the fundamental concept is still one idea. They constantly vilify and ostracize any deviant idea. So, even if someone finds something repulsive, SJW and activists will ensure he stays quiet. This spans politics, economics, and family life. I wonder how such social engineering come about.

@CrYsIs, now do you see why I disagreed about allowing foreign culture into India?

 

[Singh]

@ghost, largely disagree. Homosexuality is not natural. It is unnatural. The comparison is not natural vs artificial. The comparison is natural vs unnatural.

It is natural and also found in animal kingdom.

"Various theories have been offered--from the notion that homosexual men make more diligent uncles than their heterosexual counterparts (and thus are better at ensuring the survival of their relatives) to the notion that the same gene that codes for homosexuality in men makes women more fertile.

Now researchers from the University of Portsmouth in England have put forth a controversial new theory. They say homosexuality evolved in humans and other primates because it helps us form bonds with one another."
Homosexuality May Have Evolved In Humans Because It Helps Us Bond, Scientists Say

==

@jouni, a child must be raised by a male and female, because, the male and the female side imparts two different and complementary traits and training to the growing child; and so that that they raise the child with dedication, it is necessary to increase their stakes in the raising the child, and one way to raise the stakes is to ensure that the child is raised by its biological parents.

This is a popular supposition.

==

 

[pmaitra]

It is natural and also found in animal kingdom.

"Various theories have been offered--from the notion that homosexual men make more diligent uncles than their heterosexual counterparts (and thus are better at ensuring the survival of their relatives) to the notion that the same gene that codes for homosexuality in men makes women more fertile.

Now researchers from the University of Portsmouth in England have put forth a controversial new theory. They say homosexuality evolved in humans and other primates because it helps us form bonds with one another."
Homosexuality May Have Evolved In Humans Because It Helps Us Bond, Scientists Say

==



This is a popular supposition.

==

No, it is not natural. A lot of things are found in the animal kingdom. Sexual behaviours are species specific. Some animals are natural hermaphrodites. Humans aren't.

 

[Singh]

No, it is not natural. A lot of things are found in the animal kingdom. Sexual behaviours are species specific. Some animals are natural hermaphrodites. Humans aren't.

Mammalians show homosexuality.

 

[pmaitra]

Mammalians show homosexuality.

Snakes have been reported with limbs. Aberration of nature.

They can get married, and have/adopt children.

What exactly is this have-slash-adopt?

They cannot have children. Period.

 

[rock127]

They can get married, and have/adopt children. Also now they are officially at the same level with the rest, which is very important. Also because Finland is between east and west, this was one of the last things were Sweden was ahead of Finland. We hope to see some Indian couples to get married here, if it is not possible in India.

I guess you can turn your ultra liberal country invite all those in the world(not just India) and settle there. :thumb:

You can provide asylum and permanent residence to all those and they would live in a world for their own.

Go Finland Go.