Rashna
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I like the old world charm. Reminds me of some heritage buildings we have in India built by the british
Finland - Society and Economy
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You have been singing 'hellelujah' for the greatness of, and the love and compassion, that flows endlessly like the Zam Zam in Finland.
Indirectly suggesting the morass is all in the Orient.
I was only showing you the mirror and telling you to look inwards.
In India we have a saying - Hamam men sab nanga hai (in the Turkish bath, all are nude). Never forget that.
Rashna
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@jouni @Ray
All is not well in the garden of eden.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/35c8560c-c62f-11e4-add0-00144feab7de.html#ixzz3YgNJ0Rip
Finland's economy: In search of the sunny side
Richard Milne
After advocating austerity for others, Finland is now pondering cuts of its own to deal with years of recession
People walk in downtown Helsinki...People walk in downtown Helsinki in this undated photograph.
Finland is failing to find an exit from a two-year recession. The spiral of lost jobs and income is also wrecking the country's cherished reputation for sound public finances. While southern Europe starts to win back investors after years of donor-imposed job losses and welfare cuts, Finnish welfare costs and taxes have risen as jobs are lost. Government levies as a share of gross domestic product (GDP) have jumped to a European Union high, piling costs onto the private sector. Finnish exports, investments and retail sales are all tumbling and firms are putting out profit warnings.
It is 9:30am on a freezing morning in Helsinki and the queue outside a nondescript building in the north of the city is hundreds of people long. An old woman at the front says she has been waiting for two-and-a-half hours.
The 2,600 people who will eventually traipse in are not waiting for the latest Nokia or Apple phone but something more basic: eggs, bread, milk, bananas, fruit juice and other staples. "The queue is longer and longer and longer," says Marcus, one of the workers at the Helsinginkatu food bank. "We have many rich people here in Finland but this is the other side."
Heikki Hursti, the manager, says the number of people using the facility has doubled since 2012. "People don't have enough to pay for food and rent. They just don't have enough to live, because a lot of them don't have a job."
The hardship in Finland, which has been mired in recession for the past three years, upends the notion of the eurozone crisis being just about free-spending southern Europeans. It has also infected parts of the austere, triple-A rated north. Many policy makers and business people talk of the Nordic country being in a depression that exceeds its crisis in the 1990s, a period Finns see as worse than the 1930s. "Finland is in very, very deep trouble," says Anders Borg, the former Swedish finance minister who is conducting a review of Finland's economy for the government. Alex Stubb, Finland's prime minister, talks of a "lost decade".
At the heart of Finland's woes is a competitiveness problem. Wage costs have spiralled higher than any other European country in recent years and it has one of the most rapidly ageing populations after Japan. Public finances are in much better shape compared with many southern European countries. But like their cousins to the south, many are beginning to bristle at the constraints of euro membership.
"The problem with a structural crisis like we have today is that there is no easy solution to it," says Björn Wahlroos, the country's leading businessman. "We are stuck with a domestic labour market that used to have an escape clause: that was the currency or devaluation. But the escape valve has been closed, and the consequence is catastrophic."
The problems are deep-rooted. The mainstays of the economy for decades — the forestry industry and the electronics sector around Nokia — have fallen into sharp decline. As in the 1990s, the economic problems of neighbouring Russia have spilled across the border. And Finland's post-second world war baby boom is now weighing on the country as the number of people employed starts to drop, leading Standard & Poor's last year to become the first rating agency to strip it of its triple-A ranking.
"We have been hit by various shocks at the same time. There are few, if any, countries in Europe that have had the same shocks," says Erkki Liikanen, the central bank governor.
All is not well in the garden of eden.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/35c8560c-c62f-11e4-add0-00144feab7de.html#ixzz3YgNJ0Rip
Finland's economy: In search of the sunny side
Richard Milne
After advocating austerity for others, Finland is now pondering cuts of its own to deal with years of recession
People walk in downtown Helsinki...People walk in downtown Helsinki in this undated photograph.
Finland is failing to find an exit from a two-year recession. The spiral of lost jobs and income is also wrecking the country's cherished reputation for sound public finances. While southern Europe starts to win back investors after years of donor-imposed job losses and welfare cuts, Finnish welfare costs and taxes have risen as jobs are lost. Government levies as a share of gross domestic product (GDP) have jumped to a European Union high, piling costs onto the private sector. Finnish exports, investments and retail sales are all tumbling and firms are putting out profit warnings.
It is 9:30am on a freezing morning in Helsinki and the queue outside a nondescript building in the north of the city is hundreds of people long. An old woman at the front says she has been waiting for two-and-a-half hours.
The 2,600 people who will eventually traipse in are not waiting for the latest Nokia or Apple phone but something more basic: eggs, bread, milk, bananas, fruit juice and other staples. "The queue is longer and longer and longer," says Marcus, one of the workers at the Helsinginkatu food bank. "We have many rich people here in Finland but this is the other side."
Heikki Hursti, the manager, says the number of people using the facility has doubled since 2012. "People don't have enough to pay for food and rent. They just don't have enough to live, because a lot of them don't have a job."
The hardship in Finland, which has been mired in recession for the past three years, upends the notion of the eurozone crisis being just about free-spending southern Europeans. It has also infected parts of the austere, triple-A rated north. Many policy makers and business people talk of the Nordic country being in a depression that exceeds its crisis in the 1990s, a period Finns see as worse than the 1930s. "Finland is in very, very deep trouble," says Anders Borg, the former Swedish finance minister who is conducting a review of Finland's economy for the government. Alex Stubb, Finland's prime minister, talks of a "lost decade".
At the heart of Finland's woes is a competitiveness problem. Wage costs have spiralled higher than any other European country in recent years and it has one of the most rapidly ageing populations after Japan. Public finances are in much better shape compared with many southern European countries. But like their cousins to the south, many are beginning to bristle at the constraints of euro membership.
"The problem with a structural crisis like we have today is that there is no easy solution to it," says Björn Wahlroos, the country's leading businessman. "We are stuck with a domestic labour market that used to have an escape clause: that was the currency or devaluation. But the escape valve has been closed, and the consequence is catastrophic."
The problems are deep-rooted. The mainstays of the economy for decades — the forestry industry and the electronics sector around Nokia — have fallen into sharp decline. As in the 1990s, the economic problems of neighbouring Russia have spilled across the border. And Finland's post-second world war baby boom is now weighing on the country as the number of people employed starts to drop, leading Standard & Poor's last year to become the first rating agency to strip it of its triple-A ranking.
"We have been hit by various shocks at the same time. There are few, if any, countries in Europe that have had the same shocks," says Erkki Liikanen, the central bank governor.
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@Rashna
I feel sorry for Europe that there riding the crest is slowly reaching its nadir. I do not find any enthusiasm to have Schadenfreude since the misery of any people makes me feel so sad and vulnerable that I cannot help them.
Your report, which is an honest appraisal of the situation, does indicate that @jouni has been very economical with the truth.
He had exulted at India's woes and presented a picture that Finland and the West was the moral, economic and feel good factor for all to applaud and emulate.
Sadly, the truth is emerging and the bubble has burst.
I feel sorry for Europe that there riding the crest is slowly reaching its nadir. I do not find any enthusiasm to have Schadenfreude since the misery of any people makes me feel so sad and vulnerable that I cannot help them.
Your report, which is an honest appraisal of the situation, does indicate that @jouni has been very economical with the truth.
He had exulted at India's woes and presented a picture that Finland and the West was the moral, economic and feel good factor for all to applaud and emulate.
Sadly, the truth is emerging and the bubble has burst.
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We are talking about the past, present and the future of Finland and the so called 'greatness' of Finland being the moral, economic, social, industrial, innovative compass for India to emulate.
They start with an innocuous thread title that is loaded, then they needle and try to make you small and it is then that we, well some of us, have to tell them that they are not at the end of the rainbow where there is the pot of gold.
Or, inform them that all that glitters is not gold.
You find that wrong?
jouni
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Yeah, we are in a recession. Unemployment rate is at 8-9%. A lot of people want to get additional aid on top of government aid. I think it is good that also private businesses and people donate to those less fortunate. Also if I someday need help, I have no problem taking both government and private NGO aid. That is why we pay taxes in the good times, to have something to rely on when the times are bad. Luckily with Eurozone our interest rates are record low under 1 per cent. That helps a lot of companies to get over the down time. Economy is already showing signs of recovery.@jouni @Ray
All is not well in the garden of eden.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/35c8560c-c62f-11e4-add0-00144feab7de.html#ixzz3YgNJ0Rip
Finland's economy: In search of the sunny side
Richard Milne
After advocating austerity for others, Finland is now pondering cuts of its own to deal with years of recession
People walk in downtown Helsinki...People walk in downtown Helsinki in this undated photograph.
Finland is failing to find an exit from a two-year recession. The spiral of lost jobs and income is also wrecking the country's cherished reputation for sound public finances. While southern Europe starts to win back investors after years of donor-imposed job losses and welfare cuts, Finnish welfare costs and taxes have risen as jobs are lost. Government levies as a share of gross domestic product (GDP) have jumped to a European Union high, piling costs onto the private sector. Finnish exports, investments and retail sales are all tumbling and firms are putting out profit warnings.
It is 9:30am on a freezing morning in Helsinki and the queue outside a nondescript building in the north of the city is hundreds of people long. An old woman at the front says she has been waiting for two-and-a-half hours.
The 2,600 people who will eventually traipse in are not waiting for the latest Nokia or Apple phone but something more basic: eggs, bread, milk, bananas, fruit juice and other staples. "The queue is longer and longer and longer," says Marcus, one of the workers at the Helsinginkatu food bank. "We have many rich people here in Finland but this is the other side."
Heikki Hursti, the manager, says the number of people using the facility has doubled since 2012. "People don't have enough to pay for food and rent. They just don't have enough to live, because a lot of them don't have a job."
The hardship in Finland, which has been mired in recession for the past three years, upends the notion of the eurozone crisis being just about free-spending southern Europeans. It has also infected parts of the austere, triple-A rated north. Many policy makers and business people talk of the Nordic country being in a depression that exceeds its crisis in the 1990s, a period Finns see as worse than the 1930s. "Finland is in very, very deep trouble," says Anders Borg, the former Swedish finance minister who is conducting a review of Finland's economy for the government. Alex Stubb, Finland's prime minister, talks of a "lost decade".
At the heart of Finland's woes is a competitiveness problem. Wage costs have spiralled higher than any other European country in recent years and it has one of the most rapidly ageing populations after Japan. Public finances are in much better shape compared with many southern European countries. But like their cousins to the south, many are beginning to bristle at the constraints of euro membership.
"The problem with a structural crisis like we have today is that there is no easy solution to it," says Björn Wahlroos, the country's leading businessman. "We are stuck with a domestic labour market that used to have an escape clause: that was the currency or devaluation. But the escape valve has been closed, and the consequence is catastrophic."
The problems are deep-rooted. The mainstays of the economy for decades — the forestry industry and the electronics sector around Nokia — have fallen into sharp decline. As in the 1990s, the economic problems of neighbouring Russia have spilled across the border. And Finland's post-second world war baby boom is now weighing on the country as the number of people employed starts to drop, leading Standard & Poor's last year to become the first rating agency to strip it of its triple-A ranking.
"We have been hit by various shocks at the same time. There are few, if any, countries in Europe that have had the same shocks," says Erkki Liikanen, the central bank governor.
Our new PM who is currently forming government after winning the election has background in IT industry. He was millionaire at thirty and is the first "non career politician" PM for decades in Finland. I have hopes we will see quick recovery soon.
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Rashna
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It looks difficult as on date. Hopefully things will look up in near future.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2...nomic-problems-which-risk-undermining-growth/
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2...nomic-problems-which-risk-undermining-growth/
amoy
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IMO @jouni the pension scheme is only meant to maintain the bottomline (relatively decent) living standard for the most people, in the same vein of unemployment relief. However aside from this socialized security net it's up to each individual to do some self planning like by commerical insurance policies or investment portfolios so as to sustain themselves above the average and weather ups and downs amid the distrust of the state's efficiency in fund management (like in China's case).
Basically the cake needs to get bigger and bigger for a balance btwn efficiency and equity.
~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~
Basically the cake needs to get bigger and bigger for a balance btwn efficiency and equity.
~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~
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jouni
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Yes, but in here quite few have additional private pension schemes. 75% has only government pension.
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apple
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Your story's "years of recession" are two consecutive years of Finland's GDP shrinking by 1%. It's hardly the 1930's, or in FInland's case the 1990 and use of the term recession is a bit over the top.
Your srticle's not ridiculous and makes some good points, but posting on this forum, which is meant to about the Indian Military, is just going to lead to a flame war. Although, if that's your intent, congratulations.
This is what I mean@Rashna. People misunderstand this website's title and take it to mean "A forum to Defend India" not a site about defence issues, with/ from an Indian perspective.
There's too many here with inferiority complexes and have small minds and think small thoughts. These posters lash back, way, way off topic when they think (usually incorrectly) they are being belittled.
Aren't you from Lapland? Guessing you're not too familias with Stadi...
Helsinki was founded by three (Danish???) Viking brothers; Helsing, Esbo and the other one (Vanda???, Sibo???, forgot his name can't be bothered googling it up).
I thought "Finnish Vikings" was your thing
My ex-girlfriend's Kaale. We were talking about the Romanian beggars and how they weren't here last summer. She, claimed there'd been some incidents between Kaale and the Romanian Gypsies and while it hasn't gotten to blood feud level yet, there's been some organised attacks (which never made it to court) against the Romanians.
Not sure whether the Romanian police are going to be much use
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Rashna
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Well you know where the defence budget comes from righto? :thumb: So every perspective counts! All said and done its not about flame wars, we need healthy realism injected in to everything we discuss. I fully appreciate Finland for what it does for its citizens however like every other country it has drawbacks and i was only drawn in to this discussion because of the comparative drawn with India which to my mind is incongruous. I don't know if you are an indian or an aussie but to someone like me who has lived in Finland the comparison seems too odd. My interaction is more a reality check for @jouni than any defence of India, because to my mind there is simply no comparison to be made!
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jouni
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I did not know about Helsinki Viking history. Thanks. I only visit Helsinki to check new Lynx models, unfortunately hardly remember anything after those visits.
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apple
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Oon asunut Suomessa monta vuotta. En mä oo mikään turisti, niin kuin sä, ihän selvästi, oot ollut.
You should learn more about the people you are communicating with, before you jump to conclusions.
The "incongruous" conclusions you draw are based on personal experiences that, to me, display more of your own petite bourgeoise personality than any meaningful yardstick with which to make meaningful comparisons between countries. You contributions to this thread, along the lines of, ; "There are beggars, it's not sunny, I couldn't find good fruit(that one annoys me too) and vegies, there was nothing to spend money on" read like quotes from Marie Antoinette.
You've, vaguely, got a point about the economy/ budget allocated to military. But, Finland's situation is quite unique in that most of their troops don't really get paid and their defence force is comparatively enormous i.e. they have to buy in bulk.
Pakistan, and all the "self respecting" third world military dictatorship/ shitholes around the world, have alot of kit that the average Finnish conscript would love to get his/ her hands on.
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jouni
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I was comparing pension fund sizes. So far nobody has proved me wrong.
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Rashna
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lol. u make too many assumptions. NO i wasn't a tourist. I like ure use of words like petite bourgeoise, it might actually suit me a lot. It reminds me of 'we the living' and Russia.I would love to be that way. You know darlin for us indians veggies are like basic staples. And tomatoes ( you say tomatoe and i say tomato) that cost 4.50 euros are not exactly signs of frugality to my mind.If you think the cost of living is not an important factor in an economy you may be marie antoinette reborn. I contributed "reality", and i can continue but i thought of limiting it to the basics. After all i have nothing against Finland. I wish them well, but seriously do not make comparisons btw an ant and an elephant.
You got to feed your military no matter how. Life isn't as easy when ure near the arctic circle but i think their main headache Russia is pretty busy right now to bother with laplanders.
What kit are u talking about specifically?
You got to feed your military no matter how. Life isn't as easy when ure near the arctic circle but i think their main headache Russia is pretty busy right now to bother with laplanders.
What kit are u talking about specifically?
Rashna
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jouni
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Many posters here say that west is in the brink of collapse because of public debt. I wanted to show that we have more assets than debt. It is good to see the whole picture.
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Btw, why should we care about pension fund? what does it prove?
This is the first economic discussion where someone pointed out pension fund as an indicator. How does it affect anything in the economy, other than being a savings instrument? And savings rate is higher for India- 30% vs 20% of Finland.
Gross National Savings (% of GDP) Data for All Countries
This whole thread makes no sense.
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