Eurofighter vs Rafale

[rahulrds1]

Technical , Strategical & Performance comparison aspects

Eurofighter Typhoon:-

General characteristics

* Manufacturer : Eurofighter GmbH
* Crew: 1 (operational aircraft) or 2 (training aircraft)
* Length: 15.96 m (52 ft 5 in)
* Wingspan: 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
* Height: 5.28 m (17 ft 4 in)
* Wing area: 51.2 m2[188] (551 ft2)
* Empty weight: 11,000 kg (24,250 lb)
* Loaded weight: 16,000 kg[188] (35,300 lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 23,500 kg (51,800 lb)
* Powerplant: 2× Eurojet EJ200 afterburning turbofan
o Dry thrust: 60 kN (13,500 lbf) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 90 kN (20,250 lbf) each

Performance

* Maximum speed:
o At altitude: Mach 2 (2,495 km/h, 1,550 mph)[189][190]
o At sea level: Mach 1.2[187] (1,470 km/h / 913.2 mph)[191]
o Supercruise: Mach 1.1–1.5[185][192]
* Range: 2,900 km (1,802 mi)
* Combat radius:
o Ground attack, lo-lo-lo: 601 km (325 nmi)
o Ground attack, hi-lo-hi: 1,389 km (750 nmi)
o Air defence with 3-hr CAP: 185 km (100 nmi)
o Air defence with 10-min loiter: 1,389 km (863 nmi) [193]
* Ferry range: 3,790 km (2,300 mi)
* Service ceiling: 19,810 m (65,000 ft)
* Rate of climb: >315 m/s[194][195] (62,000 ft/min[196])
* Wing loading: 312 kg/m2[188] (64.0 lb/ft2)
* Thrust/weight: 1.15

Armament

* Guns: 1 × 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon with 150 rounds
* Hardpoints: Total of 13: 8 × under-wing plus 5 × under-fuselage pylon stations holding up to 7,500 kg (16,500 lb) of payload[188][197]
* Missiles:
o Air-to-air missiles: AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-132 ASRAAM, AIM-120 AMRAAM, IRIS-T, and, in the future, MBDA Meteor
o Air-to-surface missiles: AGM-65 Maverick, AGM-88 HARM, Storm Shadow (AKA Scalp EG), Brimstone, Taurus KEPD 350, Penguin and in the future AGM Armiger
* Bombs: Paveway II/III/Enhanced Paveway series of Laser-guided bombs (LGBs), Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), HOPE/HOSBO

* Others:
o Flares/infrared decoys dispenser pod and chaff pod and
o Electronic countermeasures (ECM) pods
o LITENING III laser targeting pod
o Up to 3 drop tanks for ferry flight or extended range/loitering time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dassault Rafale :-

General characteristics

* Manufacturer : Dassault Aviation
* Crew: 1–2
* Length: 15.27 m (50.1 ft)
* Wingspan: 10.80 m (35.4 ft)
* Height: 5.34 m (17.5 ft)
* Wing area: 45.7 m² (492 ft²)
* Empty weight: 9,500 kg (C), 9,770 kg (B),[69] 10,196 kg (M) ()
* Loaded weight: 19,500 kg (42,988 lb[70])
* Max takeoff weight: 24,500 kg (C/D), 22,200 kg (M)[71] (54,000 lb)
* Powerplant: 2× Snecma M88-2 turbofans
o Dry thrust: 50.04 kN (11,250 lbf) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 75.62 kN (17,000 lbf) each

Performance

* Maximum speed:
o High altitude: Mach 2 (2,390 km/h, 1,290 knots)[69]
o Low altitude: 1,390 km/h, 750 knots
* Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi)
* Combat radius: 1,852+ km (1,000+ nmi) on penetration mission
* Service ceiling: 16,800 m (55,000 ft)
* Rate of climb: 304.8+ m/s (1,000+ ft/s)
* Wing loading: 326 kg/m² (83 1/3 lb/ft²)
* Thrust/weight: 1.13

Armament

* Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) GIAT 30/719B cannon with 125 rounds
* Hardpoints: 14 For Armée de l'Air version (Rafale B,C), 13 for Aéronavale version (Rafale M)[citation needed] with a capacity of 9,500 kg (21,000 lb) external fuel and ordnance
* Missiles:
o Air-to-air:MICA IR/EM
+ Magic II and in the future
+ MBDA Meteor
o Air-to-ground:
+ MBDA Apache or SCALP EG or AASM or GBU-12 Paveway II or AM 39 Exocet or
+ ASMP-A nuclear missile
* Others:
o Thales Damocles targeting pod
o RECO NG reconnaissance pod
o up to 5 drop tanks

Others
* Thales RBE2 radar
* Thales SPECTRA electronic warfare system.
* Thales/SAGEM OSF (Optronique Secteur Frontal) infrared search and track system.

NOTE: Source;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Rafale

Dated : 8/20/2010

 

[Tshering22]

Typhoon is the best choice here. Because:

1) Typhoon Tranche 3 will be out soon and that will be a true multirole fighters as Bernhard Gerwert said in his interview.
2) Typhoon means stronger strategic ties with 4 European states.
3) Typhoon means we maintain undisputed air superiority in mainland Asia for at least next 20 years on a medium level alongside Tejas MK1 and MK2, Su-30MKI, PAKFA and AMCA.
4) An opening to more outsourcing from EADS in military department.
5) Germany is the keyword here. A chance to develop stronger ties and interoperability with German tri-services; the only NATO significant country with whom we haven't had any serious war drills.
6) A victory of EFT means EJ-200 becomes Mk-2 Tejas's prime engine; As we can see that Snecma has started over-pricing us for the Dhruv engines.
7) This could mean a changed perspective on the state of J&K that Europeans have maintained as a "disputed" zone. Strategic package.
8) NO Strategic or technical strings attached compared to the ones that we're seeing that US provides with its products whether free of charge or bought.

The only issue here is that per aircraft, Typhoon is killer expensive. But we could bring that cost down if we manufacture them in India itself via HAL.

 

[Daredevil]

I don't understand what is there to compare. One is Air-superiority fighter with limited multi-role capability (Typhoon) while the other is a true multi-role fighter Rafale). Without the context, comparing them is like comparing oranges to apples. This will soon enter into MRCA discussion, may be its better that this thread be merged with MRCA thread based on the response.

 

[Tshering22]

I don't understand what is there to compare. One is Air-superiority fighter with limited multi-role capability (Typhoon) while the other is a true multi-role fighter Rafale). Without the context, comparing them is like comparing oranges to apples. This will soon enter into MRCA discussion, may be its better that this thread be merged with MRCA thread based on the response.

Take tranche 3 in perspective and try again. We're looking for a more serious gain than just an excellent fighter. The deal's worth carries a lot of side-show gains for both supplier and buyer. Political, in short.

 

[neo29]

We may expect Rafale delivery sooner than EF since Rafale is not gone export yet. EF has lots of pending orders from export and consortium customers. Besides Rafale has offered us 40 fighters in fast track mode for early delivery.

Both are good fighters and the only ones worth winning and making IAF truly powerful. EF has developing A2G which will be completed by the time India gets it. Rafale has a carrier version. Both offering partnership and ToT goodies. I wish we could take both.

 

[arps]

Both have plenty of problems and uncertainty. Clinets started reducing expensive Typhoon orders.They r very very good in AIR-DEFENCE. countries r hardly ready to invest more money to make it true multi role (in the context of A TO G strength of super-hornet or rafale). The client countries happy to use F35 for strike fighter. So overall development is so slow.
Rafale also much costly but will be ahead in MULTI=ROLE criteria, but have its own disadvantage. Such as no outside client yet.French r so stubborn to negotiate the cost.Not much effective and varied weapons and much costly weapons.French have serious bad record of BIG time and cost overrun.I dont think they r habituate with BIG number production in LIMITED time.

 

[rahulrds1]

By considering 'only look' , Rafael looks better

Rafale

Image Source: http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/6/1/6/1770616.jpg

Typhoon

Image Source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Typhoon_5.jpg

 

[FearlessTiger]

I heard that per hour operating cost is very high for typhoon, is it true?

 

[arps]

I heard that per hour operating cost is very high for typhoon, is it true?

And we will not be surprised to see the Rafale also(refer the Mirage operating cost) having very very high operating cost compare to Americans fighters.

 

[arya]

cant we take both 100 ,100 and think how will be IAF

 

[neo29]

India will not go for both the fighters together for mmrca. According to them it becomes maintenance and support for 2 different fighters .

 

[StealthSniper]

In my eyes the Eurofighter is going to be the more capable aircraft in the future, because right now it's not fully developed and even still it competes with the Rafale hand in hand. I think in the near future the Eurofighter is going to be just as capable in Air to Ground as the Rafale but be alot better when it comes to Air to Air engagements. But really, I don't see why India would go for the Gripen, or American jets, (instead of the Rafale or Eurofighter) unless they look at political aspects only.

 

[Vikram Sandhu]

We have to keep in mind that our strongest enemy is china,pakistan is not a big problem as IAF can handle PAF without mrca also,china has su-27,Su-30 and JF-17 etc .If IAF wants to be par with them then only EF has the capability to defeat chinese fighters.So EF is the best choice.If anyone differs plz feel free to comment.By Vikram Sandhu

 

[Vikram Sandhu]

(Vikram Sandhu;186781]We have to keep in mind that our strongest enemy is china,pakistan is not a big problem as IAF can handle PAF without mrca also,china ha su-27,Su-30 and JF-17 etc .If IAF wants to be par with them only EF has the capability top defeat chinese fighters.So EF is the best choice.[/QUOTE]

 

[rahulrds1]

taken from MRCA thread (posted by DFI member Kunal Biswas)

 

[rahulrds1]

India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

source: http://www.stratpost.com/india-selects-ef-rafale-for-mmrca-shortlist

The Indian Ministry of Defense has issued letters, on Wednesday, to two of the six vendors competing in the estimated USD 10 billion Indian Air Force (IAF) tender for 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), asking them to extend the validity of their commercial bids, which will expire on Thursday, tomorrow.

StratPost can confirm that the European Eurofighter Typhoon consortium and the French Dassault's Rafale have been invited to do so, effectively making up the shortlist.

StratPost can also confirm that according to the IAF and the ministry, the other aircraft in the fray, the US Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet, the US Lockheed Martin Corporation's F-16, the Russian MiG-35 and the Swedish SAAB's Gripen did not pass the technical evaluation conducted by the IAF.

It is noteworthy that this comes just a day before the commercial bids of all six vendors were to expire.

It would not be unsurprising if this move by the ministry and it's coincidentally sharp timing were to raise the hackles of the spurned vendors. Industry insiders are already expecting to see a robust response from these vendors and their countries of origin, at least in private, to this decision.

One question some of the vendors losing out are already asking is why the ministry asked all the vendors to resubmit their offset proposals early this month if they already knew the outcome of the technical evaluation submitted by the IAF last summer, and waited till a day before the expiry of the commercial bids to effectively announce a shortlist by inviting extension of commercial bids from only two vendors.

The commercial bids of the other four vendors will lapse on Thursday, tomorrow.

Something else the uninvited vendors are ready to question is the basis for judging technical compliance, with robust speculation that none of the MMRCA-6 aircraft were actually completely compliant with the IAF's 643 parameters listed in the Air Staff Qualitative Requirements (ASQRs) for the tender.

It seems clear that these issues will not be settled quickly. Watch out for more on this tonight, at StratPost.

 

[rahulrds1]

Europeans ahead in $10bn race for jets

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...in-10bn-race-for-jets/articleshow/8103844.cms

NEW DELHI: With European fighters surging ahead of the American jets in the hotly-contested race to bag the gigantic $10.4 billion project to supply 126 medium multi-role fighter aircraft (MMRCA), India has now virtually shortlisted or "down-selected" two out of the six contenders in the fray.

Sources said Eurofighter Typhoon (backed by UK, Germany, Spain and Italy) and French Rafale are the ones most likely to figure in the shortlist of the jets which have met the technical requirements, even though US has been hard-selling its F/A-18 'Super Hornet' and F-16 'Falcon' jets. The other two are the Swedish Gripen and Russian MiG-35.

Though there was no official word from the defence ministry on Wednesday, sources said the sealed commercial bids of the shortlisted aviation majors will now be opened for the final negotiations to select the eventual winner in this "mother of all defence deals".

Under the project, 18 jets will be bought off-the-shelf, while 108 will be manufactured in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd after transfer of technology.

IAF, on its part, had submitted its flight evaluation trials and staff evaluation reports to MoD a year ago after evaluating the six fighters on as many as 643 technical attributes during the gruelling field trials.

This will be the first time that India will take into account "life-cycle costs" -- the cost of operating the fighters over a 40-year period, with 6,000 hours of flying -- rather than just pitching for the lowest bidder in a defence contract.

The contract also specifies 50% offsets, under which the selected foreign vendor will be required to plough half of the contract forex value back into India.

IAF is keen to induct the first lot of these 126 fighters by 2014 to retain its combat edge. It is left with just 32 fighter squadrons (each has 12 to 18 jets) at present, down from the "sanctioned" strength of 39.5 squadrons. This when Pakistan is getting new American F-16s and Chinese fighters, while China assiduously builds new airbases in Tibet and south China.

 

[sayareakd]

any one knows what is the unit cost of two aircraft ????

 

[Armand2REP]

I heard that per hour operating cost is very high for typhoon, is it true?

It costs £90,000 per flight hour or $156,000. Note how much more expensive it is than GR4, £28,000.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200809/cmhansrd/cm090721/text/90721w0017.htm

 

[rahulrds1]

Rafale & Typhoon Move To Next Level In M-MRCA, Others Out!
www.livefist.blogspot.com