Cold Start: A Pakistani perspective

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Known_Unknown, May 31, 2009.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The Cold Start decrease the time taken to launch operations i.e. a near zero mobilisation period.

    It took immense time in Op Parikrama to mobilise where upon Pakistan got enough time to nudge the US and others to dissuade India.

    Now, with this Doctrine in place, the initiative will with India and India can make a deep enough thrust and yet not cross the nuclear threshold.

    It will be a wonder if it has to do with striking terror camps with the SF since mechanised columns cannot operate in mountainous terrain.

    What the US is doing at will in NWFP against the Taliban is the answer for terror camps! Bigger Bang for the Buck!
     
  2. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ray sir
    was it not necessary that coldstartdoctrine should have been kept out of public domain so it would have retained it's surprisewhich is what is it's usp in the event of eventuality.now the adversary knows the whole strategy and will put up counter strategy so the result will not be substancial.
     
  3. Kumar

    Kumar Regular Member

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    This document provides more insight in the cold start.....Sorry if this is already posted somewhere in the forum...
     
  4. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Ray sir,

    Could you shed some light on what the Indian establishment is assuming viz a viz Pakistan's response.
    For eg.
    why wouldn't Pakistan escalate the response ?
    why wouldn't Pakistan fire Ballistic Missiles citing existential threat ?
     
  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    To be frank, I can only speak of the Cold Start as in the public domain.
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I presume the war will be short and intense and before you can say Jack Robinson, it will be over and India would have taken over much real estate when the international powers that be stops the war.

    I also presume that the nuclear threshold will not be crossed!

    Any country that fires off nukes and even if the other retaliates, the ones to have let loose the nukes first would be in the international doghouse and would also be subject to many issues that would make its existence impossible!

    The Cold Start has put the fear of God in the adversary and so they are in a great consternation shooting articles that have all sorts of imaginative ideas, and which are not as per the facts that prompts and engineer the Doctrine!!
     
  7. dave lukins

    dave lukins Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    "Security requirements did not permit the spelling out of adequate details of the “Cold Start Strategy” by the Chief of Army Staff. However, it is not difficult to visualize what this new war doctrine conceptually incorporates as it is said to revolve around the employment of “integrated battle groups” for offensive operations."

    Sometimes it is necessary to be prudent, and let the 'enemy' know in advance, the consequences they face plus the readiness of the Forces it faces if they are recalcitrant enough to flex it's muscles. Whatever the 'enemy' reads into Cold Start is just the first paragraph into their mind- set and it would take a brave man, or a lunatic, to test it's theory:wink:
     
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  8. Fighter

    Fighter Regular Member

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    I was wondering how pakistan could react to this doctrine.

    Couldnt pakistan make a cold stop strategy.
    Is it at all possible.
    What do you guys think
     
  9. Antimony

    Antimony Regular Member

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    Fighter,

    Cold Start, among other things, addresses one of the key problems associated with the erstwhile Indian Doctrine.

    Previously, If India wanted to launch an offensive operation, Pakistani troops would get to the war theatre a long time before the Strike Corps can mobilise. Now Indian Holding Corps have enough power to launch offensive operations themsleves.

    I think the Pakistani establishment has threatended to counter this by lowering the nuclear threshold. They are saying that any offensiveoperations by Indian forces would be treated as reason to cross that threshold,

    This is as per my reading. The pro on the board may offer better ideas
     
  10. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Threat-counter-threat-counter.

    The key is the recce battle. Whoever wins that will win the day.
     
  11. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    That maybe the threat but until they put together their component form warheads and mate them to their delivery vehicles, they're not prepared to lower the threshold no matter what they say.
     
  12. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    ^^OoE sir,
    Recce battle is skewed in our favour though I am more worried about the quality and quantity of the young co's, and the services strict adherence to hierarchy and set-plans.
     
  13. Antimony

    Antimony Regular Member

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    Sir,

    One liners again? :(

    If I read you correctly, are you saying that whoever holds sway between the Pakistani Vanguard (the corps based in Multan and Mangla) and the Indian Battle Groups (formed as per the Cold Start doctrine) will decide the outcomes of the later battles?

    Or am I horribly off the mark?

    From what I understand, even with Cold Start defnied IBGs in place, Pakistani Strike Corps will still be able to mobiles earlier than Indian forces, since they cover a much shorter distance
     
  14. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    There are three components of any battle

    recce
    vanguard
    main force

    In the classic sense, most battles are meeting engagements, that is that the two forces meet with no determination by either side of exactly when or where (you have a general idea but not exactly said on the spot marked x).

    Then, it's a case of feeling the enemy's fire and determination (and if you're lucky, reading their cap badges) to get an idea of exactly who you're fighting and how big and nasty he is.

    The recce battle serves two purposes - to find the enemy and then to blind him.

    Within context of this discussion, the Pakistanis must find the axis of the Indian attack, regardless it's the old Strike Corps or the IBG. The Indians will have to blind the Pakistanis to their own approach. This is where the recce battle will be fought.

    Essentially, the two opposing forces will seek to command the heights and, therefore the roads. For the Indians, this is essential in order to observe how the Pakistanis are setting up their own hasty or prepared defences to know exactly where, when, and how either to hit them or to avoid them.

    For the Pakistanis, if they control the heights, they can dictate exactly where the Indians are marching and what to lay waiting for them.
     
  15. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    ^^ sir in this context wouldn't Indian reliance on net-centric capability(UAVs, satellites, awacs etc.) neutralize any Pakistani advantages of heights/terrain.
     
  16. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Didn't happen for us in Iraq and Afghanistan, it would not be happenning soon for India.

    The problem is battle management. You need real time data in order to manage a battle. To know where their artillery was 15 minutes ago is not going to help you when they've already finished their volley.
     
  17. Blademaster

    Blademaster Regular Member

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    But OOE,

    You can tell how strong their logistics commitment is and you can factor that into your combat analysis. For instance, if I see a logistics train that would support a division size, I can see how strong the staying power would be for that unit is facing against me and manuever my forces accordingly.
     
  18. Officer of Engineers

    Officer of Engineers Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    The Pakistanis are on the defensive. Their stocks are already there.
     
  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Haven't read all the posts,

    In a war with Pakistan, there is no hasty defence as would be in the classical form. Everything on either side is permanent.

    What one should factor in is the sustenance. Pakistan can sustain a war for 30 days and then crumble!
     
  20. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

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    Ray sir how would cold start be applied in our northern sectors for example the jammu Balitstan axis
     

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