China's Overhyped Sub Threat

[SHASH2K2]

You do realize that arihant is an ssbn, and an ssbn with a very poor payload by the way. It could only be used against pakistan, and even in that case, it would face serious threats from much quieter PN subs. It would have to get so close to the Chinese coast that it would be toast real quick in the face of one of the world's most deadly coastal defences...

care to elaborate what deadly equipments China has when it comes to anti submarine warfare. I know as usually you people will not know that what makes it deadly. I understand the problem here . CCP tells you that china has deadly systems but no one ever know what those systems are and whats their specifications so dont bother to reply.

 

[SPIEZ]

care to elaborate what deadly equipments China has when it comes to anti submarine warfare. I know as usually you people will not know that what makes it deadly. I understand the problem here . CCP tells you that china has deadly systems but no one ever know what those systems are and whats their specifications so dont bother to reply.

It's a secret project , we are not supposed to know!!

P.S. check earlier posts

 

[SHASH2K2]

It's a secret project , we are not supposed to know!!

P.S. check earlier posts

Thats why I said "dont bother to reply "

 

[J20!]

Thats why I said "dont bother to reply "

So a you're saying arihant is going to conduct nuclear patrols within 700 kms of mainland China, right in our territorial waters and it'll be safe from lets see, the over 60 "overhyped" PLAN SSK's whose primary function is the defence of Chinese waters from submerged and surface threats? Not to mention the over a dozen MPA's not including the numerous anti-sub helicopters, as well as the soon to be inducted Type 056 anti-sub corvette?

I'm not interested in all the mud-slinging you guys are tryna pull, so let's talk MILITARY CAPABILITY, not unnecesary disrepect and belittling. I don't remember anyone disrespecting your government, so please don't disrespect OUR CCP. Now tell me how Arihant is going to manage to enter Chinese waters within 700 k's, without being detected and destroyed by our deployed defences. The Arihant is let down by its poor payload. The whole point of an SSBN is being able to launch a devastating MRV'd SLBM attack far away from its targets in international waters, like France, Russia the US and CHINA's SSBN's can. Maybe we could sell you our old JL1 SLBM's, since its range IS superior to India's K15, then arihant would be more survivable, when attacking established powers with significant coastal ASW capabilities.
PS: Don't throw a fit over the type 056 pic, I know its PS since it hasn't finished construction as yet.

 

[SHASH2K2]

So a you're saying arihant is going to conduct nuclear patrols within 700 kms of mainland China, right in our territorial waters and it'll be safe from lets see, the over 60 "overhyped" PLAN SSK's whose primary function is the defence of Chinese waters from submerged and surface threats? Not to mention the over a dozen MPA's not including the numerous anti-sub helicopters, as well as the soon to be inducted Type 056 anti-sub corvette?

I'm not interested in all the mud-slinging you guys are tryna pull, so let's talk MILITARY CAPABILITY, not unnecesary disrepect and belittling. I don't remember anyone disrespecting your government, so please don't disrespect OUR CCP. Now tell me how Arihant is going to manage to enter Chinese waters within 700 k's, without being detected and destroyed by our deployed defences. The Arihant is let down by its poor payload. The whole point of an SSBN is being able to launch a devastating MRV'd SLBM attack far away from its targets in international waters, like France, Russia the US and CHINA's SSBN's can. Maybe we could sell you our old JL1 SLBM's, since its range IS superior to India's K15, then arihant would be more survivable, when attacking established powers with significant coastal ASW capabilities.
PS: Don't throw a fit over the type 056 pic, I know its PS since it hasn't finished construction as yet.

AGAIN WE ARE GOING IN CIRCLE. LET ME CLARIFY WHAT i SAID AND WHY. YOU SAID SOMETHING LIKE INDIAN SUBS WONT BE ABLE TO SURVIVE NEAR CHINESE SHORES AS THEY ARE EQUIPPED WITH ONE OF MOST DANGEROUS EQUIPMENTS . i JUST ASKED YOU TO ELABORATE ABOUT THOSE SO CALLED SUPER LETHAL SYSTEMS. OBVIOUSLY YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM EXCEPT THAT THEY ARE LETHAL. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT INDIAN SUBS OR SYSTEMS.

If you still dont understand what I meant to convey why dont you go to your mighty chinese manufacturing industry and get some brain manufactured for you .

 

[J20!]

AGAIN WE ARE GOING IN CIRCLE. LET ME CLARIFY WHAT i SAID AND WHY. YOU SAID SOMETHING LIKE INDIAN SUBS WONT BE ABLE TO SURVIVE NEAR CHINESE SHORES AS THEY ARE EQUIPPED WITH ONE OF MOST DANGEROUS EQUIPMENTS . i JUST ASKED YOU TO ELABORATE ABOUT THOSE SO CALLED SUPER LETHAL SYSTEMS. OBVIOUSLY YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM EXCEPT THAT THEY ARE LETHAL. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT INDIAN SUBS OR SYSTEMS.

If you still dont understand what I meant to convey why dont you go to your mighty chinese manufacturing industry and get some brain manufactured for you .

Again with the insults. How have I offended you? Calling me brainless doesn't answer my question, stop evaading. You asked me to detail our coastal asw defences:

"care to elaborate what deadly equipments China has when it comes to anti submarine warfare. I know as usually you people will not know that what makes it deadly. I understand the problem here . CCP tells you that china has deadly systems but no one ever know what those systems are and whats their specifications"

Are thousands of tons of military equipment not deadly enough for you? The light and heavy torpedoes, Yu-7, Yu-4 Yu-6, the Anti-sub missiles Cy-1 CY-2 CY-3, the air-launched torpedoes and depth charges?

I've listed our "deadly" anti-sub weapons, now answer my question and stop with the pointless ridicule, how will Arihant get in K-15 range of Chinese targets and successfully launch without being detected and destroyed? My opinion is that it cannot, and is mainly aimed at Pakistan, since they cannot mount as significant a response as China can. Even if you could buy JL1's and extend the subs patrol distances from China's mainland, you'd still hav to contend with longer ranged type 093 and future type 095 SSn's.

If its another round of baseless ridicule, don't bother, answer in MILITARY capability, then we'll have a meaningful discussion, not you launching insults my way.

 

[p2prada]

Arihant is a new sub. So, it will take time to mature.

Arihant isn't adversary specific, but the missile could be. A new missile is being developed called the K-4. It will have a range of 3500 Km and a payload of around 2500Kg and will be MIRV capable. This means it can carry at least 4 to 6 250KT nuke warheads. This will be the China centric missile. The current version of Arihant can carry 4 K-4 missiles.

If you want the specifications of K-4, you could read the Agni-III missile, they are quite similar. If you want specs of K-15 missile then you could read about a missile called Shaurya.

BTW, China has been making SSBNs since the '70s, inducted one in 1981, but not one has been on deterrent patrol ever. One Xia class was lost in Chinese waters too. Arihant will be making her first deterrent patrol in 2012. Even with a 30 year head start, we seem to be ahead in operationalizing our first SSBN.

 

[hbogyt]

Again with the insults. How have I offended you? Calling me brainless doesn't answer my question, stop evaading. You asked me to detail our coastal asw defences:

"care to elaborate what deadly equipments China has when it comes to anti submarine warfare. I know as usually you people will not know that what makes it deadly. I understand the problem here . CCP tells you that china has deadly systems but no one ever know what those systems are and whats their specifications"

Are thousands of tons of military equipment not deadly enough for you? The light and heavy torpedoes, Yu-7, Yu-4 Yu-6, the Anti-sub missiles Cy-1 CY-2 CY-3, the air-launched torpedoes and depth charges?

I've listed our "deadly" anti-sub weapons, now answer my question and stop with the pointless ridicule, how will Arihant get in K-15 range of Chinese targets and successfully launch without being detected and destroyed? My opinion is that it cannot, and is mainly aimed at Pakistan, since they cannot mount as significant a response as China can. Even if you could buy JL1's and extend the subs patrol distances from China's mainland, you'd still hav to contend with longer ranged type 093 and future type 095 SSn's.

If its another round of baseless ridicule, don't bother, answer in MILITARY capability, then we'll have a meaningful discussion, not you launching insults my way.

Stop arguing with them. The whole thread was started and has continued with the intent to inflame, insult and self-gratify. Some of those who have participated in this smear job could never make the same comments in some of the more respectable forums without being banned. Evidently this forum is where they can indulge and they'll indulge one way or another, there is no stopping them.

 

[nitesh]

This is good, so China is not even having a decent sub fleet, not even a decent sea denial capability, forget about sea domination

 

[J20!]

Arihant is a new sub. So, it will take time to mature.

Arihant isn't adversary specific, but the missile could be. A new missile is being developed called the K-4. It will have a range of 3500 Km and a payload of around 2500Kg and will be MIRV capable. This means it can carry at least 4 to 6 250KT nuke warheads. This will be the China centric missile. The current version of Arihant can carry 4 K-4 missiles.

If you want the specifications of K-4, you could read the Agni-III missile, they are quite similar. If you want specs of K-15 missile then you could read about a missile called Shaurya.

BTW, China has been making SSBNs since the '70s, inducted one in 1981, but not one has been on deterrent patrol ever. One Xia class was lost in Chinese waters too. Arihant will be making her first deterrent patrol in 2012. Even with a 30 year head start, we seem to be ahead in operationalizing our first SSBN.

1. Agni three is not MRIVed, it carries a payload of only 600-1800kg which is a single warhead and assorted decoys. India does not posses cryogenic technology, thus cannot produce a BM with the necessary power to carry an MRIVed cargo over any significant range.
2. The K-4 is an SLBM version of the Agni 3, thus it has the same limitations. The only upgrade from K-15 to K-4 will be in terms of range, which is commendable all the same.
3. The JL2 on the other hand, has a range of between 8500km and 14000km as listed by wikipedia, thanks mostly to a liquid fueled second stage and chinese cryogenic technology.
4. The JL2 whilst lacking official releases, is argued by many experts to be MRIVed as it has the necessary power to actually lift multiple warheads and the nose cone shape, which is consistent with MRIVed missiles.
5.So you're saying that the Chinese have been building SSBNs for almost 40 years and in all this timpe they've just been in harbor collecting dust? The money spent building and developing the JL1, improving it, designing and building the Xia, puting it in production, developing the type 094, which by the way is China's most advanced submarine, and is still in production, and developing various variants of the JL2, was just so they could sit in habour and haven't been out on patrol EVER?!!!

I'm sure you realize how ridiculous that sounds. Not to mention the various submarine bases and numerous sub tunnels, whose sole intent is to hide our SSBNs and SSNs from prying eyes, and so they leave and return for patrols submerged, undetected.

So in conclusion my Technocrat friend, China has been running nuclear sub patrols for decades, and is FAAAAAAAAAAAAR ahead of india in nuclear sub technology and operation, AND balistic missile tech. China has land based and Sub launched ICBMs, what India has and is developing right now in the K-4 and Agni iii are just intermediate ranged, non-MRIVed BMs, and it'll stay that way till Indians succeed in developing cryogenic rocket engine technology themselves as no one will help you or let you buy them for use in ballistic nuclear missiles.

 

[asianobserve]

Now tell me how Arihant is going to manage to enter Chinese waters within 700 k's, without being detected and destroyed by our deployed defences.

Nobody is destroying anything especially nuclear submarines, not even the Chinese. I can assure you that in case Arihant intrudes on China's territorial waters and is detected by PLA's anti-submarine assets it is not going to be destroyed. Maybe China will lodge a diplomatic protest and maybe a UN condemnation, but it's not going to "destroy" that sub. Not if the CCP and PLA people are not MAD.

 

[J20!]

Nobody is destroying anything especially nuclear submarines, not even the Chinese. I can assure you that in case Arihant intrudes on China's territorial waters and is detected by PLA's anti-submarine assets it is not going to be destroyed. Maybe China will lodge a diplomatic protest and maybe a UN condemnation, but it's not going to "destroy" that sub. Not if the CCP and PLA people are not MAD.

In peacetime, it would be the dumbest thing since Hitler decided to invade the SU. The ecological ramifications alone, in our own waters, would be disastrous with an SSBN and its payload rotting right near our beaches.
My previous statements were in War time realities, then there would be no choice, an SSBN off your coast would be disastrous.

 

[J20!]

This is good, so China is not even having a decent sub fleet, not even a decent sea denial capability, forget about sea domination

If China's subfleet, the second largest in the world, and one the most advanced, is not "decent", then the only "decent" sub fleets on the globe would be the US Navy's fleet, the Marine Nationale's fleet, the Royal Navy's fleet and the Russian Navy's fleet of subs. But since China is the only other country which designs and builds its own assorted nuclear and conventional subs , I'd include us in that list.

Funny coincedence, that lists all permanent members of the UN Security Council. It seems their not there by chance huh?