China viewed by an Indian

[Yijiuliuer]

They have provided an affordable medicines to peoples who can not buy expensive one's and we will continue to do so for whoever needs them... It does not matter what someone thinks about it...I called it MIRACLE because the people from THAT very nation comes down to India for affordable medical treatment...

As I mentioned in my earlier posts that a big US pharma company has lost the suit against an Indian company [I do not remember the name] and its a bad omen for them for things to come... This makes them more nervous for future things to come... I see another area where their domination is SURE to go down... definitely...

They made the rule, we, both of us, are just players. A single win case can't change the chess board.

although I was not born then .... heard that 50 years back Panda did bite... I thought it was un necessary considering the history of these two countries going back by 1000 years...

Elephant advanced, Panda bite. totally unnecessary.

 

[bose]

They made the rule, we, both of us, are just players. A single win case can't change the chess board.

A new begining for better tommorrow...

Elephant advanced, Panda bite. totally unnecessary.

Elephant does not live on those high mountains... but Elephant are by nature are intelligent...

 

[devil510]

If you post this in US media, you will be sued. haha.

i don't think so however there will be definitely resistance

 

[ersakthivel]

Yes and No.

To my very inaccurate knowledge of India's history and current development, I don't think being a democratic society or not has
too much to do with India's progress.

India's biggest hurdle of development is not rooted in any system, but rather in cultural identity. The layers of your social structure have never been touched, your elites stays elites and underprivillieged stays underprvillieged, be it independence or openning up, no major movement in social life have ever shaked the core of the status quo in your political configuration.

It is unfair to say that india has never been changed since British installed a governor to rule the subcontinent, but statement holds true in many aspects, putting shri into office actually does not mean anything vital.

With that being said, I think a paradigm shift in culture should be put into your schedule among the top list items, other lesser important issues such as choice of instruments to realize this goal (Be it democracy or China style soft authoritarian) will follow up automatically once objectives are set.

From an outsider's view, you have to strengthen your second sector in a big scale. Forget about the world office's pink dream, reinforce your infrastructure and industrialize your country. industrilization will bring you a population with self consciousness, discipline. and REAL sense of social equality. Only when you have this kind of people can you emancipate your rurual population, your women, and your lower castes, can you make them citizen instead of "surplus of active Indians"( I came to an article by one of your scholars who claimed there are only 100 million Indian are actually Indian, with this kind of mentality in your elite class, how can your society progress?)

WIth China restructuring its industry, there are enormous chances india can uitlize, even some are labor intensive manufactures, you should just take them and implant them. and with Japan aging out, Indian can also take over some of their sectors, don't look down upon these dirty jobs, Japanese did that, Korean did that, I see no reason why Idian is too proud of doing them.

Short thoughts short, it really does not matter being democratic or not, it matters if you want to break up your old cultural identity with industrialization and build up a brand new one.

See, Democracy is the only system that can keep india united.70 percentage of indian's don,t understand the language spoken by each other.So responsible regional unit leaders of national political parties uniting in a system in DELHI give some kind of sense of INDIA to the common man.

Also free democracy ensures free and fair press,fair and autonomous supreme court, autonomous election commision, And gives a sense of fairplay so that pent up feeling of anger against politicians can be released safely with out breaking the nation.

In reality for a poor man forming 30 percent of population tilting this system is beyond his reach.But somehoew sense of fairplay is there.

Take the recent spectrum scam in telecom sector if it is not for the supreme court country would have been robbed of 20 billion dollars in single deal.But no one has been punished and all the accused are scotfree

SInce these systems are too lax corrupt rarely get punished ,that is the main problem in INDIA.Legal system is intently kept cumbersome by the ruling class.In US it is not like that.Justice is swift.But in india court cases drag on for 15 years even for a simple civil dispute that has no complexity.

The NHERU family rule (though elected in free and fair elections)was tilted towards socialism not free market.We started liberalisation ,and economic reform only in 1990s with Narashima rao government,you started it in the 70s with DENG.That is the real reason for the gap.Also population growth is not strictly controllable in india.

Still people GET ELECTED TO POSITIONS because their fathers held the position and since they know the system inside out they start the corrupt practice from day one.The coal scam is another instance of the robbery, with coal mines auctioned at a throw away price to private players for lease.

But due to free and fair press these corruptions come to light,and if cases are filed in court against them massive scams get scrapped.But scams worth 100 million dollars sail through under the radar,whichever political party ,there is no difference.This will be the real challenge to indian democraacy,these proliferating corruption and scams and nothing else.

But in china due to media censorship without the rulers nod ,no scams come to light ,that is the difference.

I do dream of a day when someone like OBAMA(whatever his policies may be) with no family connections and pampered background comes o power through his own personal integerity and honesty.

That will be the day of triumph for indian democracy

Average Indian earn more than their Chinese counterpart. China has the world cheapest labor, cost of labor is much lower than in India..
Take Television for example, this time the US initiated an anti-dumping war against Chinese TV exporters by using indian made TV's price.
China's price is lower due to Chinese Labor is much lower than that of India, since in China, other cost of making a TV set is much higher.

Manufacture workers for exemple, Chinese workers earns less than Indian workers, some joint ventures open their factory in China due to
they can pay the workers with less wage. They can barely survive in India since we don't have as hard working people either do we have
some one willing to work with such a low pay.

The cost of labor is going up,believe me or not a carpenter working in a small tier two city gets a third of software engineers pay if he works properly.The cost of labor is high,Only in few under developed states like bihar and orissa this cost is low .In other states the lower strata of society is having a much higher income growth than middle class nowadays.

Politicians ensure this because they won't come back to power if they don't ensure it.
Eventhough india doesn't tax agriculture vast majority of farmers are existential farmers with small land holding.The high cost of labor is making farming unattractive and loss prone.This is the biggest issue right now.With many farmers commiting suicide unable to pay their loans.

 

[DaTang]

See, Democracy is the only system that can keep india united.70 percentage of indian's don,t understand the language spoken by each other.So responsible regional unit leaders of national political parties uniting in a system in DELHI give some kind of sense of INDIA to the common man.

Also free democracy ensures free and fair press,fair and autonomous supreme court, autonomous election commision, And gives a sense of fairplay so that pent up feeling of anger against politicians can be released safely with out breaking the nation.

In reality for a poor man forming 30 percent of population tilting this system is beyond his reach.But somehoew sense of fairplay is there.

SInce these systems are too lax corrupt rarely get punished ,that is the main problem in INDIA.Legal system is intently kept cumbersome by the ruling class.In US it is not like that.Justice is swift.But in india court cases drag on for 15 years even for a simple civil dispute that has no complexity.

The NHERU family rule was tilted towards socialism not free market.We started liberalisation ,and economic reform only in 1990s with Narashima rao government,you started it in the 70s with DENG.That is the real reason for the gap.Also population growth is not strictly controllable in india.
Take the recent

Rather than democracy what clues together Indian is hinduism, I just quoted, don't know if it is true.

 

[ersakthivel]

Rather than democracy what clues together Indian is hinduism, I just quoted, don't know if it is true.

Mostly true.It definitely helps to a certain extent.But it not all alone responsible for that.

Nheru spent more than 20 years in jail for india's freedom.Gandhi spent even more and many other freedom fighters did more than 10 years in jail.These people were of unquestionable credentials and when the british left ,They became the regional level leaders under the leadership of NHERU in congress party.

So for the first 20 years of indian rule corruption was unheard of .I come from tamilnadu.My region's congress leader was KAMARAJ. He was a chief minister for 10 years.On his death a list of his personal belongings were taken.The list includes--a few shirts and dhoties ,old delapitated family house,nothing else.He didnot own his personal car.

Once this generation passed away ,all probity in public life passed away.The mistake commited by congress party is the founding of dynastic rule under INDIRA GANDHI (NEHRU's daughter).That is a fatal mistake.The congress split.She became an unquestionable mass leader and proximity to power centers became the only way of elevation in politics, no one cared for the person's credentials.Powerful regional level leaders were thrown out and replaced with loyalists.

These thrown out leaders started their own political parties without any ideology and politics became personality based,Now increasingly it is becomming caste based,With more number of regional political parties ,polity is fractured, and unstable ,minority governments at the center could not do anything proper as they depend upon corrupt regional party's support for continuance in power.This is the reason for all kind of scams ,2G scam,irrigation scam,and now coal scam which leads directly to the door of prime minister of india.


Loyalists are assured of their continuance in power as long as high command desires, so if they indulged in corruption high command didn't care as long as he is loyal.It has come reache HIMALAYAN HEIGHTS under MANMOHAN SINGh,the country's first benami prime minister under the control of sonia (who enjoys untrammelled power without any responsibility).

But no one is assured of continuing in power unpopular policies and condoning corruption.That is the only USP of indian democracy.It is free and fair and will ruthlessly throw out the guys who commit these sins.But nowadays the real problem is all are sinners.So one set of sinners are replaced with another set of sinners.Under SONIA's time it is becomming more brazen.

See the recent FDI in retail decision.Indian government imposed no export obligations on these giant retail players.....Since india is one of the biggest retail market india could have bargained hard and got some export quota imposed on the value of these giant retailer's turnover here, as they are going to make huge profits.They are not going to bring in any TOT unlike other foreign manufacturers.
But nothing was imposed and the decision was rushed through without any debates.But because it is a democracy next elections will decide the fate of the decision.We don't have to wait for the death of the ruler like in north korea to debate this.

What will be the future course.... We have to see....

 

[ersakthivel]

If that stuff was written by an Indian, he's either extremely naive, lying, or is not Indian. India's social problems are far greater than China's.

However, China's biggest problem is political uncertainty. A Chinese person was telling me how all the shops in Beijing have been banned from carrying knives to prepare for China's leadership meeting next week. What kind of ridiculous order is that? If knives are a security concern, what about the millions of knives sitting in Beijing residents' kitchens?

Not so.In india you cannot getaway with murder in grand scalle.There will always be official records.
Do you know a junior level oficer can say no to the minister directly in his face and minister couldn't do shit about that?
Can you imagine that in china?
At the most the official can be punished is with transfer.
take the case of Ashok Khemka .

Ashok Khemka takes on Haryana govt, slams it for setting up committee - India - DNA

The man annuled the land deals of DLF-ROBERT VADRA (SONIA GANDHI's son in law-fisrst son in law of the country!!!!!!)combine in a matter of fact way.

He freely talks to press about corruption and all the shitty HARYANA state government can do is to transfer him.No can touch even the little finger of that guy.Some times crooks get together to murder upright officials but it is a very rare occurance.because ultimately no on ecan control the indian courts.A judge in lower level court is 10 times more powerful than the prime minister.A simple stricture from the court and any self respecting Politicians have to resign immediately.

Courts can reverse the corrupt decisions of any politician and official immediately.If you want you can google
SUBRAMANIUM SWAMY's case against union of india regarding 2g's scam.
This single citizen of india filed a case in delhi high court and stopped the 20 billion dollad corruption in telecom deal.He is a national hero and no one can do anything.
TAke the case of ARJUN KEJRIWAL....A retired tax official who exposed the DLF-Vadra deal...

(Though SONIA -MANMOHAN combine is bringing in italian mafia style even here.)

Naturally the issue is becomming a national scam and going to cost the congress party in elections.CAn you see that happening in china.

The problem starts when the official is corrupt.Even then any common man canmove against the most powerful man in this coutry through the court.
Do you know SUBRAMANIUM SWAMY is pursuing a bevy of court cases against SONIA GANDHI and congress party? Can you see that happening in china anytime soon?

 

[DaTang]

Mostly true.It definitely helps to a certain extent.But it not all alone responsible for that.

Nheru spent more than 20 years in jail for india's freedom.Gandhi spent even more and many other freedom fighters did more than 10 years in jail.These people were of unquestionable credentials and when the british left ,They became the regional level leaders under the leadership of NHERU in congress party.

So for the first 20 years of indian rule corruption was unheard of .I come from tamilnadu.My region's congress leader was KAMARAJ. He was a chief minister for 10 years.On his death a list of his personal belongings were taken.The list includes--a few shirts and dhoties ,old delapitated family house,nothing else.He didnot own his personal car.

Once this generation passed away ,all probity in public life passed away.The mistake commited by congress party is the founding of dynastic rule under INDIRA GANDHI (NEHRU's daughter).That is a fatal mistake.The congress split.She became an unquestionable mass leader and proximity to power centers became the only way of elevation in politics, no one cared for the person's credentials.Powerful regional level leaders were thrown out and replaced with loyalists.

These thrown out leaders started their own political parties without any ideology and politics became personality based,Now increasingly it is becomming caste based,With more number of regional political parties ,polity is fractured, and unstable ,minority governments at the center could not do anything proper as they depend upon corrupt regional party's support for continuance in power.This is the reason for all kind of scams ,2G scam,irrigation scam,and now coal scam which leads directly to the door of prime minister of india.


Loyalists are assured of their continuance in power as long as high command desires, so if they indulged in corruption high command didn't care as long as he is loyal.It has come reache HIMALAYAN HEIGHTS under MANMOHAN SINGh,the country's first benami prime minister under the control of sonia (who enjoys untrammelled power without any responsibility).

But no one is assured of continuing in power unpopular policies and condoning corruption.That is the only USP of indian democracy.It is free and fair and will ruthlessly throw out the guys who commit these sins.But nowadays the real problem is all are sinners.So one set of sinners are replaced with another set of sinners.Under SONIA's time it is becomming more brazen.

See the recent FDI in retail decision.Indian government imposed no export obligations on these giant retail players.....Since india is one of the biggest retail market india could have bargained hard and got some export quota imposed on the value of these giant retailer's turnover here, as they are going to make huge profits.They are not going to bring in any TOT unlike other foreign manufacturers.
But nothing was imposed and the decision was rushed through without any debates.But because it is a democracy next elections will decide the fate of the decision.We don't have to wait for the death of the ruler like in north korea to debate this.

What will be the future course.... We have to see....

China's retailing market is losing ground to Wallythemarttycoon, carrefour and 7/11 now. They buy chinese goods, sell to chinese consumers and earn lot big bucks to support anti-China fundings. heheh, Free market, you just live with it now.

 

[DaTang]

Not so.In india you cannot getaway with murder in grand scalle.There will always be official records.
Do you know a junior level oficer can say no to the minister directly in his face and minister couldn't do shit about that?
Can you imagine that in china?
At the most the official can be punished is with transfer.
take the case of Ashok Khemka .

Ashok Khemka takes on Haryana govt, slams it for setting up committee - India - DNA

The man annuled the land deals of DLF-ROBERT VADRA (SONIA GANDHI's son in law-fisrst son in law of the country!!!!!!)combine in a matter of fact way.

He freely talks to press about corruption and all the shitty HARYANA state government can do is to transfer him.No can touch even the little finger of that guy.Some times crooks get together to murder upright officials but it is a very rare occurance.because ultimately no on ecan control the indian courts.A judge in lower level court is 10 times more powerful than the prime minister.A simple stricture from the court and any self respecting Politicians have to resign immediately.

Courts can reverse the corrupt decisions of any politician and official immediately.If you want you can google
SUBRAMANIUM SWAMY's case against union of india regarding 2g's scam.
This single citizen of india filed a case in delhi high court and stopped the 20 billion dollad corruption in telecom deal.He is a national hero and no one can do anything.
TAke the case of ARJUN KEJRIWAL....A retired tax official who exposed the DLF-Vadra deal...

(Though SONIA -MANMOHAN combine is bringing in italian mafia style even here.)

Naturally the issue is becomming a national scam and going to cost the congress party in elections.CAn you see that happening in china.

The problem starts when the official is corrupt.Even then any common man canmove against the most powerful man in this coutry through the court.
Do you know SUBRAMANIUM SWAMY is pursuing a bevy of court cases against SONIA GANDHI and congress party? Can you see that happening in china anytime soon?

We Chinese rather don't waste the good mood since we know no matter how she might got sued, Sonia will be fine anyways.
why do you choose to live in the fake hope when you have more important thing to do?

 

[Known_Unknown]

^^You're only taking about high profile people and high people cases. The educated elites at the top of the political ladder are much more sophisticated and will not put out a "supari" on someone just because he is saying bad things about them in public.

But a large number of MP's, MLA's, and those elected to local municipalities will use their power to beat or even kill those that stand up against them. Ever seen Shool? Movies like those are based on numerous real life incidents.

 

[ersakthivel]

You assumed too much, India remains as a remote concern and nothing is growing anywhere in Chinese public attention towards its southern neighbor, if there is any, the focus is on how indian maltreats Chinese enterprise and set barriers for trading.

China as a leaves-chewer, was cornered in someway by hunter's hounds, you see it is groaning because someone made it groan.
but Panda does bite, when it bites, things will get ugly.

How do you expect us to treat fairly companies ,which has retired chines army officials and links to chinese army?
In a bizarre case BSNL a govt company has given orders for sensitive telecom equipment to the some co. much against the warning of security officials.
But you are not allowing our generic pharma companies to do business.
Do you know china has more than 20 billion dollar trade surplus with india despite it's deep missile tech and nuclear tech transfer to pak?
How much fairer can you expect us to be?
.Is this what you call discrimination?

 

[ersakthivel]

You are talking as if we don't want import some from you, but if we do so, we will get sued first place by American pharmaceutical industries and they are eager to find any excuses to start a trade war.

How you get around the legal issue is still something amazing to us, maybe they just keep one eye closed for you?



...

Panda even bites polar bears and bald eagles, panda bites elephants, panda bites roosters, actually, the five permanent beasts all bite eachother once for a while. you just don't bite when there is no need to bite.

There are no legal issues.Most of the drugs made by indian generic pharma companies are out of patent drugs only.Few that are being contested in court by US firm doesn't mean they are all counterfiet.Why China is accused of much more counterfieting than the generic indian pharma by others.How do you cope with it?

 

[ersakthivel]

We Chinese rather don't waste the good mood since we know no matter how she might got sued, Sonia will be fine anyways.
why do you choose to live in the fake hope when you have more important thing to do?

Not so fast mate.I said that there is a system in india that can throw out corrupt.Most of the ex ministers of DMK government in TAMILNADU are in and out of jail in various illegal land deals.

They lost the election due to the same issue.And SoNIA won't be getting away that easily.Once election comes no one can.No one can gag the media here.

Unlike the great leaders of communist china who pretend to save the country from the great capitalist satan, (by implementing the same capitalism!!!!!! and holding trillions of dollars in foreign reserve(currency of your number one enemy!!!!!!)

play acting by our leaders will be exposed.

I never heard that your bitterst enemy is your number one trading partner and great nations hold their number enemy's currencies in trillions of forex reserve.

You guys are faking your enemity to US, in reality both your economies are heavily connected.SO you are not going to bomb your biggest trading partner. i think.

That's why we indians suspect that china's missile and nucler tech transfer to PAK and continual refusal to honur the mutually accepted principle of "settled populations will not be displaced"(which was once agreed by indian and chinese leaders, in recent border talks and claiming arunachal pradesh against the agreed principles, and giving stapled visas to residents of kashmir in india as nefarious designs against india.

The kind of "principled opposition" put in by china in india's nuclear exemption case in NSG during the GEORGE BUSH pioneered indo-us nuclear deal is still very fresh in the mind of educated indians.

How many hurdles we put on china's way.NEHRU even declined the security council permanent member seat offered to india and campaigned in favour of china.

OBAMA declared on the floor of indian parliament we will support india's inclusion in UN security council.You are keeping MUM.And supplying nuclear stuff to pak.

Then what is the point in accusing india of "befriending the far and attacking the rear.

CAN you explain china-pak-us alliance against USSR.Didn't you practise the same "befriending the far and attacking the rear. then?

China like every other nation is pursuing it's national interest.Any attempt to put non existant idelogical gloss over it is despicable.

INDO-CHINA rivalry is the most manufactured conflict in the whole world.The concerns of india and china don't cross each other in any significant way.We are separated by the great himalayas and even fightng with each other is such a difficult job.

Despite all these steps indian government is letting china enjoy a trde surplus of 20 billion dollars with india, resulting in shutting down of many small scale industries due to the dumped chinese goods at unrealistic prices.

Sometimes I wondered why?Then I undestood that anything is possible under manmohan government.

 

[DaTang]

Not so fast mate.I said that there is a system in india that can throw out corrupt.Most of the ex ministers of DMK government in TAMILNADU are in and out of jail in various illegal land deals.

They lost the election due to the same issue.And SoNIA won't be getting away that easily.Once election comes no one can.No one can gag the media here.

Unlike the great leaders of communist china who pretend to save the country from the great capitalist satan, (by implementing the same capitalism!!!!!! and holding trillions of dollars in foreign reserve(currency of your number one enemy!!!!!!)

play acting by our leaders will be exposed.

I never heard that your bitterst enemy is your number one trading partner and great nations hold their number enemy's currencies in trillions of forex reserve.

You guys are faking your enemity to US, in reality both your economies are heavily connected.SO you are not going to bomb your biggest trading partner. i think.

That's why we indians suspect that china's missile and nucler tech transfer to PAK and continual refusal to honur the mutually accepted principle of "settled populations will not be displaced"(which was once agreed by indian and chinese leaders, in recent border talks and claiming arunachal pradesh against the agreed principles, and giving stapled visas to residents of kashmir in india as nefarious designs against india.

The kind of "principled opposition" put in by china in india's nuclear exemption case in NSG during the GEORGE BUSH pioneered indo-us nuclear deal is still very fresh in the mind of educated indians.

How many hurdles we put on china's way.NEHRU even declined the security council permanent member seat offered to india and campaigned in favour of china.
OBAMA declared on the floor of indian parliament we will support india's inclusion in UN security council.You are keeping MUM.

Good observation, back in the old time, a lot of China's walls were painted with one slogan, Proletariat of the world, Unite! Ironically, world proletariat like you and me never unites, instead they fought against each other, they hate each other to their guts, they backstab each other. Those who really united are people with money, Bourgeoisie, you may recall this word if you are old enough.

There is nothing about China or US, it is of the world rich, by the world rich, for the world rich. if you still have not grown this wisdom tooth, you are tooooo naive.

by the way, you claim China is your biggest enemy, but you know who is your biggest trade partner? guess....

haha
remember

Sonia will die, so will us.

 

[mikhail]

what is USSR doing here in this topic?

both the CCP ad the CCCP are of the same category!the only difference is that while the CCCP has gone extinct CCP is still there in china to oppress the common chini people!

 

[mikhail]

Rather than democracy what clues together Indian is hinduism, I just quoted, don't know if it is true.

this is totally wrong!India is a secular democracy where the people have the right to practice any religion without the State intervention unlike in china where the state controls all the religions!plus the biggest positive thing about the Indian democracy is the right of free speech which is quite unheard of in china where the police arrests anyone making statement against the CCP!and here are some facts to change your perception that India is a hindu democracy:_our Prime Minister is a Sikh(a religious minority),so is our Chief of Army.the chief of IAF is ACM N.A.K.Browne who is an Anglo-Indian Christian.our Vice President is Dr. Hamid Ansari,a muslim.the head of the ruling party of India is a christian,the Chief Justice of India is a Muslim and the list goes on and on!so you can clearly see that not only hindus but members of all religious communities are there in the top positions of our Country.this is because our Constitution demands for the best man/woman for a particular job irrespective of his/her caste,creed ar religion!