MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[abhay rajput]

Indeed its way much costlier. If US has to be the buyer then we should definitely go for f18.

Bro f18 is specifically designed for naval operations.. IAF will not choose it even f21 has better chance in IAF. F35 is the answer if USA wants to bag this contract because they are not going to provide any tot.. so they just bring on f35..

 

[Bhurki]

Dude, what is the afterburning thrust of ex and mki?
You can answer that.

Al31 FP has 12.5 tonnes of thrust,
F100-229 has 12.9 tonnes of thrust.

 

[MonaLazy]

That fellow says mmrca 2 unlikely to materialize

I think only if the economy does not do well, but the domestic line up (Tejas, MWF, AMCA) from ADA/HAL/private sector delivers the goods (planes) on time. However, if they slip up then MMRCA 2.0 is the only fallback.

If the economy does well then there is probably room for both with the eventual goal of 42 sqns.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

Bro f18 is specifically designed for naval operations.. IAF will not choose it even f21 has better chance in IAF. F35 is the answer if USA wants to bag this contract because they are not going to provide any tot.. so they just bring on f35..

You are correct. Sorry, my bad. But f18 will be offered for our carriers I think.

 

[abhay rajput]

You are correct. Sorry, my bad. But f18 will be offered for our carriers I think.

Yeah there are two aircraft for navy tender.. but i don't think it will be signed before IAF 114(?) ..

 

[captscooby81]

This news is interesting if even 10 % it's true then we can see more Rafale's coming into IAF

The biggest issue was the giving of offset to reliance , I don't think govt will have any issue if that hiccup is removed to go ahead with more Rafale's


EXCLUSIVE
DASSAULT IN TALKS TO BUY OUT RELIANCE STAKE IN DRAL
Move comes 2 years ahead of the planned roll out of Falcon 2000 executive jet from JV's Nagpur facility as part of Rafale deal offsets

February 19, 2020 By Vishal Thapar Video / Photo(s): By Dassault Aviation
Dassault's Make in India video released at DefExpo20
The French aircraft manufacturer Dassault is learnt to be in talks to buy out the stake of its partner Reliance in their joint venture Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL).

The Reliance-appointed CEO of DRAL Sampathkumaran ST has reportedly resigned recently. Reliance Infrastructure is the majority shareholder in the 51:49 JV.

This development has taken place two years ahead of the planned roll out of the fully assembled Dassault Falcon 2000 executive jet from the DRAL manufacturing facility at the Mihan SEZ in Nagpur as part of the scaling up of the discharge of offsets in the 7.87 Billion Euro Rafale fighter deal.

The Reliance-appointed CEO of DRAL Sampathkumaran ST has reportedly resigned recently. Reliance Infrastructure is the majority shareholder in the 51:49 JV

"Dassault is seeking a 100 per cent ownership of DRAL, as is permissible under Indian regulations. The French side is already handling all the manufacturing activity at DRAL," an informed source confirmed to this reporter.

Announced shortly after the signing of the Indo-French Government-to-Government deal for 36 Rafale fighters in 2016, the JV was intended to be "a key player in the execution of offset obligations" under the contract. The French side is to discharge 50 per cent offsets - or counter-trade obligations - by sourcing Defence and Aerospace equipment or components worth 3.9 Billion Euros from India.

"Dassault is seeking a 100 per cent ownership of DRAL, as is permissible under Indian regulations. The French side is already handling all the manufacturing activity at DRAL," an informed source confirmed to this reporter

"The Joint Venture also represents a unequalled Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) by Dassault Aviation of over 100 Million Euros, the largest such Defence FDI in one location in India," Dassault had declared in a statement.

The French aircraft manufacturer seeks 100 per cent control of DRAL before rolling out 2 Falcon 2000 jets a month
DRAL commenced manufacture of aero structures for the Falcon 2000 in 2018. "These first steps are expected to achieve in the coming years the possible setting up of final assembly of Rafale and Falcon Aircraft," Dassault had stated.

Sourcing by foreign OEMs of civil aerospace components manufactured in India are permissible for discharge of offsets in defence deals.

DRAL commenced manufacture of aero structures for the Falcon 2000 in 2018. "These first steps are expected to achieve in the coming years the possible setting up of final assembly of Rafale and Falcon Aircraft," Dassault had stated

In February 2019, the first cockpit front section of the Falcon 2000 produced by DRAL was delivered to the assembly line in France as part of the global supply chain for the manufacture of the bestselling executive jet.

"In parallel, larger infrastructures are being developed and will soon be completed allowing the ramp-up of DRAL capabilities toward the taking-off of an entire Falcon 2000 fully manufactured and assembled in India," Dassault had then declared in a statement.

A Falcon 2000 rollout will make this the first private sector assembly line for commercial jets in India.

Reports suggest that the French aircraft manufacturer plans to assemble two jets a month at Nagpur

In a video released at the recently-held DefExpo20 in Lucknow, Dassault declared that two more hangars are in the works in addition to the state-of-the-art 150,000 square feet Phase-1 facility, and that 600-700 personnel would be employed at the Nagpur facility by 2022 as part of the scaling up plans.

Reports suggest that the French aircraft manufacturer plans to assemble two jets a month at Nagpur.

In the meanwhile, Dassault has announced that it is now sourcing Rafale engine doors from Nagpur and pylons from Gurgaon.


February 19, 2020 By Vishal Thapar Video / Photo(s): By Dassault Aviation


http://www.sps-aviation.com/news/?i...lt-in-talks-to-buy-out-Reliance-stake-in-DRAL

 

[Flying Dagger]

Well guys It s been a long break and am back after surviving the riots in Delhi.

My take F-15 is over kill for us in our finances. We already have a Sukhoi class fighter which needs money to be upgraded. And we lack severely in squadron strength for interceptor/point defence role .

Ideally we should have 400+ Mig 35 class/Mirage or Tejas mk2 class fighter by now with 200+ Sukhoi it would have kept the operational cost low and provided the much needed edge and strength.

Now we have Rafale in the mix with already big circus of different aircrafts with diff origin of nation.

The Last I would opt for an expensive F 15 deal.

We should just throw our weight behind on Tejas mk 2 and keep Gripen in loop

If budget allows go for 3-4 Rafale
For navy They want a circus too.. so be it.

But our primary worry should be internal security now. What I have seen and went through if we are not safe inside India there is no point in buying such expensive gadgets with no strategic vision.

 

[WolfPack86]

IAF has two-pronged strategy to deal with shortage of fighter jets: Govt
To address the shortage of fighter aircraft in the Indian Air Force, the government has adopted a two-pronged strategy of midlife upgradation of existing jets and induction of new ones in the fleet, Minister of State for Defence Shripad Naik said on Thursday.

In a written response to a question in the Lok Sabha, Naik said the IAF has already contracted for 40 Light Combat Aircraft Mk1 with Hindustan AeronauticsNSE -0.40 % Limited (HAL) of which 16 aircraft have been delivered.

"To overcome the shortage of fighter aircrafts in the IAF, a two-pronged approach has been adopted. That is, midlife upgradation of legacy aircraft to retain their operational relevance and induction of new aircraft," Naik said.


The IAF is in the process of acquiring additional 83 LCA Mk1A aircraft for which contract negotiations are in progress.

Delivery of LCA Mk1A aircraft would commence three years from the date of signing of contract, Naik said.

Request For Proposal for 83 LCA Mk1A was issued to HAL in December, 2017.

A Request For Information for procurement of 114 Multi Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) was issued in April 2018, the minister added.

The MiG-27 fleet was decommissioned on December 31, 2019 due to obsolescence and completion of Total Technical Life, he added.

Replying to another question on whether the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) has partnered with Indian or foreign companies to develop technology to prevent drone attacks, Naik said the information is "strategic in nature and its disclosure is not in the interest of national security".

In response to a separate query on whether there are any plans to privatise any defence public sector undertaking, Naik said the government has given an in-principle approval for strategic disinvestment of Bharat Earth Movers Ltd (BEML) by reducing its shareholding of 54.03 per cent to 28.03 per cent, he said.
https://www.defencenews.in/article/...eal-with-shortage-of-fighter-jets-Govt-809588

 

[ashdoc]

mig 27 decommissioned !! so what's left of the strike force . only jaguars....we better get new fighters pronto !!

 

[Flying Dagger]

mig 27 decommissioned !! so what's left of the strike force . only jaguars....we better get new fighters pronto !!

Jaguar are done and dusted too now.. they are just there for squadron strength and will be packed up by 2025.

 

[WolfPack86]

IAF ensuring level-playing field for single, twin engine fighter jets in USD 20 billion deal
In the 114 multirole fighter aircraft project planned to be built indigenously, the Indian Air Force is now working to prepare a level-playing field for single-engine and twin-engine combat aircraft expected to participate in the competition.

Seven fighter aircraft including the F-21 from Lockheed Martin, F-18 and F-15 from Boeing, Gripen from Saab, MiG-35 and Sukhoi-35 from Rosoboronexport and Rafale from Dassault Aviation are the likely participants for the deal, which is likely to cost over USD 20 billion.

"In the competition, there are both single-engine and twin-engine aircraft. We are looking to prepare the qualitative requirement specifications in a way that there is a level-playing field between both the fighters and there can be a fair competition between them," top IAF sources told ANI.


In a competition between twin-engine and single-engine fighter planes, the latter has a cost advantage as there is one engine less required to power the planes but the former gives an edge in terms of safety and performance.

The competition has the F-21 and the Saab Gripen as the single-engine jets while the other five are twin-engine fighter jets.

The Indian Air Force will shortly also be preparing the statement of the case for acquisition and move it to the Defence Acquisition Council for the approval of the tender by the Defence Ministry.

The IAF has plans of acquiring the 114 fighter jets through the strategic partnership route where indigenous firms would partner with the global manufacturers to produce 96 of these planes in India.

The government had acquired 36 Rafale jets in 2016 through an emergency clause to fill the capability gap due to the inability to finalise the 126 multirole fighter aircraft deal with French Dassault Aviation due to complications in tender requirements.

The 36 aircraft would start arriving in the country from May this year in Ambala followed by the Hashimara airbase in West Bengal.
https://www.defencenews.in/article/...ne-fighter-jets-in-USD-20-billion-deal-809687

 

[Hydra3]

I wish F15 EX should win the contract, eagle can rule sky.

 

[Tactical Frog]

I wish F15 EX should win the contract, eagle can rule sky.

F-16 for India F-A -18 for India F-15 for India

This is getting hilarious. If Northrop Grumman were smart, they would offer the blueprints of the F-14 for top dollar and there would be crowds to sing F-14 for India

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Get 36 more Rafales, and produce large numbers of Tejas Mk 2. Upgrade the sukhois to have AESA. Save money for AMCA and Kaveri. Expand AWACS fleet to 10-12, and tanker fleet to 12-14. Work on expanding the drone fleet dramatically, for strike roles and for Electronic warfare against air defence systems. 110 new western fighters will cost 18 billion easily. Only for us to have a panic episode 10 years from now, about improved versions of Chinese J 20 and J 31 (which they will produce hundreds of).

If we insist on 110 new fighters, then only the Rafale makes sense, as we have already paid all the upfront costs of modifications and infrastructure, so a subsequent purchase will be much cheaper per plane. Any other fighter, and we will have to pay initial costs all over again.

 

[Hydra3]

F-16 for India F-A -18 for India F-15 for India

This is getting hilarious. If Northrop Grumman were smart, they would offer the blueprints of the F-14 for top dollar and there would be crowds to sing F-14 for India

If they are smart they should have offered us F35 or 22.

 

[Hydra3]

Get 36 more Rafales, and produce large numbers of Tejas Mk 2. Upgrade the sukhois to have AESA. Save money for AMCA and Kaveri. Expand AWACS fleet to 10-12, and tanker fleet to 12-14. Work on expanding the drone fleet dramatically, for strike roles and for Electronic warfare against air defence systems. 110 new western fighters will cost 18 billion easily. Only for us to have a panic episode 10 years from now, about improved versions of Chinese J 20 and J 31 (which they will produce hundreds of).

If we insist on 110 new fighters, then only the Rafale makes sense, as we have already paid all the upfront costs of modifications and infrastructure, so a subsequent purchase will be much cheaper per plane. Any other fighter, and we will have to pay initial costs all over again.

Mirage is an old airframe, jaguars are outdated, mig21s( one minute silence ), mig 27 retired. Mig 29 is also getting old... we simply dont have enough time to play with indigenous development drama. Let go for this 114 fighters, along with in house development of lca, amac or whatever

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Mirage is an old airframe, jaguars are outdated, mig21s( one minute silence ), mig 27 retired. Mig 29 is also getting old... we simply dont have enough time to play with indigenous development drama. Let go for this 114 fighters, along with in house development of lca, amac or whatever

Then we should get 114 more rafales, and end the matter. We're trying to build a modern fighter fleet, not a zoo. Initial costs of rafales have already been paid, and more rafales will ensure parts commonality and ease of maintenance + operations with existing order of 36 rafales. It's meaningless to add another fighter type to this mix, like the F 15 EX.

 

[Snowcat]

Best would be to go with 36 additional rafale. Get the 83 MK1A , convert the 40 odd mk1 to Mk1A standard. Can't get rid of jaguars, avionics upgrade will help maintaining its ground attack role.
Get started with MWF and AMCA. AMCA will probably take 10 years to capitalise as it will be a completely new design, the only problem with MWF will be availability of a higher thrust engine. Let's hope somethinh works out in that regard.
And at last but not the least
Stay 100 feet away from the American offerings.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Best would be to go with 36 additional rafale. Get the 83 MK1A , convert the 40 odd mk1 to Mk1A standard. Can't get rid of jaguars, avionics upgrade will help maintaining its ground attack role.
Get started with MWF and AMCA. AMCA will probably take 10 years to capitalise as it will be a completely new design, the only problem with MWF will be availability of a higher thrust engine. Let's hope somethinh works out in that regard.
And at last but not the least
Stay 100 feet away from the American offerings.

For an indigenous engine, we'll have to start out with a foreign engine core, like what Safran was offering, and mass produce them in India. Only later through serious R&D can our guys get the expertise to make the entire engine themselves, which will take a while. We can't wait for a completely indigenous engine to go forward with AMCA and MWF etc.

You're right about the Americans. Everyone is conveniently ignoring the new gen of anti Indian democrats. They will come back to power eventually, by 2024, and it would be suicide to depend on the Americans for critical equipment support then.

 

[Narasimh]

I wish F15 EX should win the contract, eagle can rule sky.

Why do you want to add another heavy fighter with su30 and rafale already being there. Maintenance already a problem with IAF.