MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[IndianHawk]

India uses Mig-21s primarily for CAP roles. Single engine fighters always have less turn around time, less fuel consumption and less expensive to maintain which makes it ideal for petroling duty. Mig-21 has an added extra for its speed and very low RCS. I guess LCA somewhat projected to be as capable in this grounds and even more efficient for its advanced avionics, sensors and weapons.

Lca has even lesser RCS than mig 21. Composite do come in handy here. It's only similar to mig21 in size in everything else it's a class apart. Mk1a with elta 2052 and derby ER / Astra mk2 will be better than paki f16 block 52.
( Unless paki upgrade that with aesa and get aim120C7 variant even then they will only achieve parity.) .and when sfdr and bramhos Ng will come lca mk1a it self will be as deadly as the best of Chinese fighters .

Many people don't realise this as they are blinded by payload tons in broucher or too focused on patrol range etc. Mark my words lca mk1a itself will be known as a very fearsome deadly fighter by our enemies.

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[WolfPack86]

The Russian Air Force has received its first two serially produced MiG-35 ‘4++ generation’ medium weight multirole fighters, with orders placed for enough of the aircraft to outfit two full squadrons and further followup orders expected. The MiG-35 is outfitted with highly sophisticated sensors, avionics and weapons systems allowing it to go head to head with its most advanced Western counterparts such as the Eurofighter Typhoon and F-35A.
The platform is designed primarily to serve as a defensive frontline fighter capable of operating from short runways and protecting Russian forces from enemy air attacks. As a lighter complement to the Su-57, much as the American F-35 is to the F-22 and the MiG-29 of the previous generation was to the Su-27, the MiG-35 is an unspecialised multirole jet and currently the most sophisticated fighter in the Russian Air Force - which it will remain until the first of its heavier counterparts leave production lines. Despite its lower cost, both to operate and to acquire, Russia’s strong preference for heavier fighter jets such as the Su-27 and Su-57 over their lighter counterparts means that the MiG-35 is unlikely to be built in large numbers for domestic use. The fighter has been extensively marketed for export however, with India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Egypt among others all showing considerable interest.

The MiG-35's ability to operate using much of the same infrastructure as the fourth generation MiG-29 which it closely resembles, and the similarity of the two jets which reduces needs for costly retraining of pilots, means the new aircraft can potentially appeal to a wide range of clients which currently operate its predecessor from the previous generation. 24 countries currently operate the MiG-29 - and other than Slovakia, Poland and Bulgaria which have been integrated into the NATO alliance, all others are likely to at least consider an acquisition of its next generation successor. The MiG-35 retains an extremely high thrust/weight ratio with more powerful engines and a lighter airframe with more composite material use than its predecessor the MiG-29. The fighter is also the first in the world of the medium weight range to use three dimensional thrust vectoring systems, providing it with extreme manoeuvrability surpassing that of other platforms and allowing it to both more effectively evade enemy missile attacks at range and to dogfight more effectively in visual range combat.
The MiG-35 is the first Russian fighter to integrate an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, a powerful new type of system first fielded in 2002 by the Japanese Mitsubishi F-2 and since deployed by a number of new Western fighters including the F-35 and F-22 stealth fighters - as well as by the Chinese J-20 and J-10C which entered service in 2017 and 2018 respectively. Such radars provide superior situational awareness, have lower signatures and are less vulnerable to jamming than their passive counterparts. The radar used by the MiG-35 is called the Phazotron Zhuk-AE. A powerful radar combined with an advanced infra red search and track system will effectively complement the MiG-35's advanced long range munitions. According to some reports the MiG-35 will have access to the K-77 air to air missile - a unique and extremely precise platform with a range of nearly 200km, very high manoeuvrability and a special active phased array antenna which makes it particularly challenging to evade.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamAMCA/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[WolfPack86]

India step closer to inviting bids for purchase of 114 fighter jets

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India moved a step closer to inviting bids for the purchase of 114 fighter jets, currently the world’s largest deal in play, as Prime Minister Narendra Modi seeks to boost the capability of the country’s armed forces and replace an aging combat aircraft fleet.

The deal -- valued at more than $15 billion -- has attracted initial offers from global defence majors, including Boeing Co., Lockheed Martin Corp and Sweden’s Saab AB. At least 85 per cent of production has to be in India, according to an initial document issued more than a year back.

Modernising the country’s defence forces is critical for Modi, who hardly signed any new major arms deals during his first term, even as twin threats from neighbouring China and Pakistan loomed. A Pakistani F-16 jet downed an aging Soviet-era MiG 21 -- Indian Air Forces mainstay -- in a dogfight during a military confrontation earlier this year.

Evaluation Begins
The evaluation of initial bids and finalising the Air Force’s requirements has begun, junior Defence Minister Shripad Naik told lawmakers in Parliament. India is also drafting initial documents to purchase tanks and armoured vehicles, as well as asking foreign shipbuilders to show interest to manufacture submarines in India, he said.

The Indian Air Force and Navy require as many as 400 single- and double-engine combat aircraft, according to the government.

Boeing is partnering with state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. and Mahindra Defence Systems Ltd. for the fighter jet deal offering its F/A-18. Lockheed will jointly bid with salt-to-software conglomerate Tata Group for its F-16 jets, and Saab teamed with billionaire Gautam Adani to offer its Gripen jets.

After scrapping an order with Dassault Aviation for 126 Rafale jets worth $11 billion in 2015 -- a process that took nearly a decade -- Modi’s administration bought 36 jets separately. Under the new tender, the winner will have to deliver the first jet within three years of securing the contract.
https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...chase-of-114-fighter-jets/article28273641.ece

 

[WolfPack86]

Evaluation of responses to the RFI (Request for Information) and finalisation of SQR (Services Qualitative Requirements) for new fighter jets under the Strategic Partnership model have commenced - @shripadynaik in LS.

 

[Narasimh]

India step closer to inviting bids for purchase of 114 fighter jets

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India moved a step closer to inviting bids for the purchase of 114 fighter jets, currently the world’s largest deal in play, as Prime Minister Narendra Modi seeks to boost the capability of the country’s armed forces and replace an aging combat aircraft fleet.

The deal -- valued at more than $15 billion -- has attracted initial offers from global defence majors, including Boeing Co., Lockheed Martin Corp and Sweden’s Saab AB. At least 85 per cent of production has to be in India, according to an initial document issued more than a year back.

Modernising the country’s defence forces is critical for Modi, who hardly signed any new major arms deals during his first term, even as twin threats from neighbouring China and Pakistan loomed. A Pakistani F-16 jet downed an aging Soviet-era MiG 21 -- Indian Air Forces mainstay -- in a dogfight during a military confrontation earlier this year.

Evaluation Begins
The evaluation of initial bids and finalising the Air Force’s requirements has begun, junior Defence Minister Shripad Naik told lawmakers in Parliament. India is also drafting initial documents to purchase tanks and armoured vehicles, as well as asking foreign shipbuilders to show interest to manufacture submarines in India, he said.

The Indian Air Force and Navy require as many as 400 single- and double-engine combat aircraft, according to the government.

Boeing is partnering with state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. and Mahindra Defence Systems Ltd. for the fighter jet deal offering its F/A-18. Lockheed will jointly bid with salt-to-software conglomerate Tata Group for its F-16 jets, and Saab teamed with billionaire Gautam Adani to offer its Gripen jets.

After scrapping an order with Dassault Aviation for 126 Rafale jets worth $11 billion in 2015 -- a process that took nearly a decade -- Modi’s administration bought 36 jets separately. Under the new tender, the winner will have to deliver the first jet within three years of securing the contract.
https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...chase-of-114-fighter-jets/article28273641.ece

Kuch bhi likh ke sensationalize karna inka kaam hai.. and these people call themselves journalists! They mention IAF Mig 21 being shot down by F-16 in dogfight but conveniently forget to mention about the F-16 being downed by the very Mig-21. and that using it expand the fallacy saying Govt. hardly signed any arms deal when in fact 36 Rafale was precisely signed because of the decade lost in negotiations of MMRCA 1.0.
These guys are on Paki payroll or what?

 

[uoftotaku]

Its The Hindu...don't expect them to write anything even remotely positive or logical about anything...especially now that Govt has taken step to totally stop all advertising in that rag

 

[Immanuel]

https://defence-blog.com/news/u-s-s...on-sale-of-f-16-fighter-jets-to-bulgaria.html

Bulgaria is buying 8 f16 block 70-72 for 1.6 Billion. Deal includes weapons , spare part and logistics support.

That translate to 200 million per plane.for an f16!

Whoever is thinking that gripen or f16 will be cheap is an idiot.
Gripen E is probably more costly than this.

Suddenly rafale at 240 million makes sense over f16 or gripen.

Only lca is cheap for india. People crying about 63 million cost of mk1a need to wake up and smell the military inflation. Even if lca mk1a cost 150 million per plane with weapons spare part and logistics support its still very cheap.

Mk1a with elta 2052 and derby ER / Astra mk2 will go toe to toe with f16 block 70 and will be far superior to Pakistani f16 block 52.

Just buy more rafale and order more lca mk1a and then focus on mwf and amca . With these kinda prices for foreign aircraft we will either have to live with a small airforce or go bankrupt for foreign fighters.

Indegeniosation is our only hope .

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200 million per aircraft including weapons, spares and logitics, training etc. is a pretty good price considering it comes with AESA and other updated gizmos.

 

[IndianHawk]

200 million per aircraft including weapons, spares and logitics, training etc. is a pretty good price considering it comes with AESA and other updated gizmos.

But at this price it is competing with rafale which comes at 240-50 million per unit all inclusive with rbe aesa and spectra and meteor . Easily outclassing f16.

The logic of single engine fighter is that it should be cheap so you can have more numbers but at price f16 is coming instead of 36 rafale we'll only get 44 -45 f16.

And yet 36 rafale are far more effective than 45 f16 or gripen. So it is wiser to just go for rafale.

The point is if we want numbers both f16 and gripen are not going to work .

Only lca and mwf can do that.

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[Knowitall]

Can we have a follow on order after the initial batch of 114 also a few reports said that we will buy 2 types of aircraft single engine and double engine both. Can somone clarify my doubts.

 

[Immanuel]

But at this price it is competing with rafale which comes at 240-50 million per unit all inclusive with rbe aesa and spectra and meteor . Easily outclassing f16.

The logic of single engine fighter is that it should be cheap so you can have more numbers but at price f16 is coming instead of 36 rafale we'll only get 44 -45 f16.

And yet 36 rafale are far more effective than 45 f16 or gripen. So it is wiser to just go for rafale.

The point is if we want numbers both f16 and gripen are not going to work .

Only lca and mwf can do that.

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I am not advocating (never have) for the F-16 in IAF but for Bulgaria is perfectly fine.

 

[Knowitall]

Does anyone have an idea on when the contract will be signed.

 

[Immanuel]

Does anyone have an idea on when the contract will be signed.

give or take 3 years or so. For IAF this whole excercise is not needed, just order 114 Rafale more. I doubt others have an edge when it comes to sunk costs already incurred during purchase of first batch.

 

[Knowitall]

3 years till contract is signed. 3 more years till the first aircraft arrives. To slow we just gotta go ahead with rafales.

 

[itsme]

Hope by 2050 we will get these obsolete 114 fighters.

 

[Illusive]

Hope by 2050 we will get these obsolete 114 fighters.

You'd think we learn from past mistakes, you'd think the rate at which the aircraft are dwindling you'd have the sense of urgency. 2 decades has passed in deciding what to get and now 3 more years at the "least". Unbelievable.

 

[ashdoc]

You'd think we learn from past mistakes, you'd think the rate at which the aircraft are dwindling you'd have the sense of urgency. 2 decades has passed in deciding what to get and now 3 more years at the "least". Unbelievable.

Where is the money for these fighters ? This year's defence budget is predicted to be as pathetic as last year's .

 

[Illusive]

Where is the money for these fighters ? This year's defence budget is predicted to be as pathetic as last year's .

I fear another decade lost in this selection process, you don't need a defence budget to play the evaluation game.

 

[ashdoc]

Today is budget . Let us see how much money is allotted for defence .

 

[captscooby81]

Ghanta sir Ghanta ..These buggers are turning out to be worse than communist pigs sucking socialism deep down their ass my poor nigga is only what matters to them . They will give a big middle finger to defence budget especially for the modernisation

Today is budget . Let us see how much money is allotted for defence .

 

[ashdoc]

Basic customs duty exempted for defence imports .