300 Chinese are fighting alongside ISIS in Iraq & Syria.

[Poseidon]

http://nypost.com/2014/12/15/300-chinese-are-fighting-alongside-isis-in-iraq-syria/

Courtesy: Reuters.

Hopefully Uighurs will use their new learned skills and use it in China.

 

[amoy]

Iran Urges China to Assist in War Against ISIS
by Menachem Rephun



After meeting with a Chinese delegation in the Iranian capital of Tehran on Thursday, Iran’s Secretary of the Expediency Council Mohsen Rezaie urged China to join the war against ISIS.

“China can significantly help the regional peace and stability by becoming more active in the fight against the Islamic State,” Rezaie said, according to Iran’s Fars news agency.

According to Rezaie, if China adopts a more active role in combating ISIS, “Iran can fight against Islamic extremism in Central Asia through cultural activities and interaction with [the] Chinese Muslim community.”

Following terror attacks in Mali and Turkey’s downing of a Russian warplane, China has called for increased organization but believes that there is currently no military solution for the Syrian crisis.

Iran has cautioned China that some members of the Muslim Uighur ethnic group from Xinjiang have joined ISIS. A predominantly Shia Islamic country, Iran has escalated operations in Iraq and Syria against ISIS, a Sunni group which brands Shi’ites as heretics.

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

Those are honey words to drag China into the war against ISIS which the West is trying to flush it on to the Asian powers. It is wise for China to not involve in a war against ISIS. As far as ISIS is considered it is not just a terrorist organization but an ideology. Fighting and defeating ideologies is hard. Ideologies actually never die and they grow on conflict. Eg : Communism.

India, which has more Muslims than any other Muslim country has still not gotten itself in this war only because of the above said reason. Situation is Muslims get radicalized when ISIS is pounded hard. ISIS has created a sense of sympathy among Muslims across the globe.

Any more good points to this topic is welcome.

 

[rockey 71]

Those are honey words to drag China into the war against ISIS which the West is trying to flush it on to the Asian powers. It is wise for China to not involve in a war against ISIS. As far as ISIS is considered it is not just a terrorist organization but an ideology. Fighting and defeating ideologies is hard. Ideologies actually never die and they grow on conflict. Eg : Communism.

India, which has more Muslims than any other Muslim country has still not gotten itself in this war only because of the above said reason. Situation is Muslims get radicalized when ISIS is pounded hard. ISIS has created a sense of sympathy among Muslims across the globe.

Any more good points to this topic is welcome.

Islam preaches universal-ism. A Muslim easily sympathizes with another under distress. In extreme case, national identity will not prevent someone from joining a struggle viewed just and in the service of Islam.

 

[Razor]

Islam preaches universal-ism. A Muslim easily sympathizes with another under distress. In extreme case, national identity will not prevent someone from joining a struggle viewed just and in the service of Islam.

So you are essentially saying people in every country should be worried about muslims as their loyalty lies not with country or ethnicity, right?

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

Islam preaches universal-ism. A Muslim easily sympathizes with another under distress. In extreme case, national identity will not prevent someone from joining a struggle viewed just and in the service of Islam.

Isn't that sympathizing part the result of a flawed belief system ?

If Islam's basics were humane and just an entity like ISIS wouldn't have risen at all. We cannot completely blame ISIS for this menace. It is the culture and environment where these so called warriors were brought up are to be blamed. One more reason, Muslims shouldn't have got involved in the tussle between the USA and the USSR a couple of decades ago. ME and SA Muslims acted like the hand of USA. That is the root cause for all present atrocities.

They got played. And, the present thought of paying back and punishing non-believers will take them no where. End stage is Muslims will be annihilated by the West.

 

[rockey 71]

Isn't that sympathizing part the result of a flawed belief system ?

If Islam's basics were humane and just an entity like ISIS wouldn't have risen at all. We cannot completely blame ISIS for this menace. It is the culture and environment where these so called warriors were brought up are to be blamed. One more reason, Muslims shouldn't have got involved in the tussle between the USA and the USSR a couple of decades ago. ME and SA Muslims acted like the hand of USA. That is the root cause for all present atrocities.

They got played. And, the present thought of paying back and punishing non-believers will take them no where. End stage is Muslims will be annihilated by the West.

@Razor

I have merely stated the facts as understood by me.

 

[Bornubus]

Islam preaches universal-ism. A Muslim easily sympathizes with another under distress. In extreme case, national identity will not prevent someone from joining a struggle viewed just and in the service of Islam.

Albeit whatever Islam preaches,history and the present tells otherwise I.e ordinary Muslim don't give a Rat's ass what happen with other Muslim sitting in another country.

Moreover its the Muslims who are the biggest threat to themselves since the time of Muhammad, look what happening in Syria 300000 killed so far by among themselves, sure non Muslim also joined the party later on.

BD is the biggest slap on Ummah ideology also if 14% of Indian Muslim believed in Ummah crap they would've been fighting in Afghanistan, Syria etc against non Muslims for their fake Muslim brothers.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

So you are essentially saying people in every country should be worried about muslims as their loyalty lies not with country or ethnicity, right?

Do you really need @rockey 71 to come and tell you this fact!! The proofs lie all over the world.

 

[Razor]

Do you really need @rockey 71 to come and tell you this fact!! The proofs lie all over the world.

You should learn to sense the tone of my question. That should answer the first part of your post.

Also these things are not constant all over the world.
Do you think the people around the wotrld were as ineffective in influencing the muslim culture around them, as "indians"?

Have you heard of the hui?
They are Han who converted to islam and they are rabidly nationalistic. Check it out if you want. They were at the forefront in crushing rebellions in various parts of china, including Xinjiang.
And this is why the CCP is wise enough to give all priveleges to the hui.
So when the uyghur is not allowed to grow beard or fast when in government job and is allowed to pray in front of chinese flag, the hui muslim can do whatever he wants. As a matter of fact the CCP promotes the hui version of islam.
Same case with the Tatars; the chechens and tajiks and uzbeks are not allowed in tatar mosques in moskva. Tatars are the only muslims the russians trust.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

You should learn to sense the tone of my question. That should answer the first part of your post.

Also these things are not constant all over the world.
Do you think the people around the wotrld were as ineffective in influencing the muslim culture around them, as "indians"?

Have you heard of the hui?
They are Han who converted to islam and they are rabidly nationalistic. Check it out if you want. They were at the forefront in crushing rebellions in various parts of china, including Xinjiang.
And this is why the CCP is wise enough to give all priveleges to the hui.
So when the uyghur is not allowed to grow beard or fast when in government job and is allowed to pray in front of chinese flag, the hui muslim can do whatever he wants. As a matter of fact the CCP promotes the hui version of islam.
Same case with the Tatars; the chechens and tajiks and uzbeks are not allowed in tatar mosques in moskva. Tatars are the only muslims the russians trust.

It is just a matter of time before ideology supersedes nationalism. Read about how USSR, the real secular country, was stabbed in the back by its Muslim soldiers during Afghanistan fight.

 

[Razor]

It is just a matter of time before ideology supersedes nationalism. Read about how USSR, the real secular country, was stabbed in the back by its Muslim soldiers during Afghanistan fight.

You are right. Idealogy will supersede nationalism IFF you will allow such an ideology to grow.

And it is very difficult for that to happen in at least one case: China (hui. )
We have much to learn from the chinese.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

You are right. Idealogy will supersede nationalism IFF you will allow such an ideology to grow.

And it is very difficult for that to happen in at least one case: China (hui. )
We have much to learn from the chinese.

Easy for them because they are run by CCP. Very difficult in case of a democracy.

 

[amoy]

@Razor look what u have spouted about Hui ah Han ah, though u're ignorant of the subject. Not simply converted Hans, Huis origins were complicatedly mixed, incl. Mongols Central Asians and even Malays and so on varying from one place to another.

More ridiculously u alleged Huis are privileged muslims because they were loyal to crush rebellions. U indeed have no clue. Historically there were many bloody bloody clashes and atrocities btwn Hui and Han. In Qing Dynasty millions were massacred. Many Hui fled from the central to Xinjiang and fought Qing along with Yakoob Beg from Khogan then exiled later to Central Asia which was being gradually annexed by Czarist Russia. They are now known as Dungan nowadays. Besides Hui rebels once built up an "emirate" in Yunnan bordering Myanmar, where I personally visited the rebuilt Buddhist temple Hui muslim rebels occupied as their headquarters.

In Chinese school textbooks such history is not taught officially in full becoz it was too appalling and an untouchable scar. But folklores and songs are still passed down generation after generation in those areas of cleansing.

___________

BTW I kind of like Donald Trump - he seems not to bother abt political correctness.

The West plays doublespeak instinctively. When it comes to Charlie Hebdo or Paris Attacks they would adopt one mode of narrative. But it switches to the other mode - human rights or religious freedom rhetoric blah blah instantly like they really care when China is concerned. Recently a French journalist who used to be apologetic for "down-trodden" muslims was denied visa to China. Well done!

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

 

[Razor]

@Razor look what u have spouted about Hui ah Han ah, though u're ignorant of the subject. Not simply converted Hans, Huis origins were complicatedly mixed, incl. Mongols Central Asians and even Malays and so on varying from one place to another.

More ridiculously u alleged Huis are privileged muslims because they were loyal to crush rebellions. U indeed have no clue. Historically there were many bloody bloody clashes and atrocities btwn Hui and Han. In Qing Dynasty millions were massacred. Many Hui fled from the central to Xinjiang and fought Qing along with Yakoob Beg from Khogan then exiled later to Central Asia which was being gradually annexed by Czarist Russia. They are now known as Dungan nowadays. Besides Hui rebels once built up an "emirate" in Yunnan bordering Myanmar, where I personally visited the rebuilt Buddhist temple Hui muslim rebels occupied as their headquarters.

In Chinese school textbooks such history is not taught officially in full becoz it was too appalling and an untouchable scar. But folklores and songs are still passed down generation after generation in those areas of cleansing.

___________

BTW I kind of like Donald Trump - he seems not to bother abt political correctness.

The West plays doublespeak instinctively. When it comes to Charlie Hebdo or Paris Attacks they would adopt one mode of narrative. But it switches to the other mode - human rights or religious freedom rhetoric blah blah instantly like they really care when China is concerned. Recently a French journalist who used to be apologetic for "down-trodden" muslims was denied visa to China. Well done!

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

Of course they have mixed with others coz of their locations.
Even the so called pure race han has a good deal of turkic blood (which btw is what gives vigor to the sedantary han people), melanasian, SE asian so on. So now han are not of han descent?

And the qing are not han you know that quite well. They are jurchen/manchu who ruled the han for like 3 centuries and forced you to wear the pigtail.
Btw when the qing kicked out the han race ming, the hui were fighting with the ming to try to throw out the qing.
Again they were fighting with the "nationalists" to overthrow the qing 3 centuries later.

Myanmar, malaya blah b;lah fact is hui are with the han.
Any of the 300 chinese fighting with ISIS is hui? Didn't think so.

Everybody has a bloody history not "fit" for textbooks. What are you crying about?

Also let me know when there are restriction on hui muslims, like they have for uyghur.

 

[amoy]

Of course they have mixed with others coz of their locations.
Even the so called pure race han has a good deal of turkic blood (which btw is what gives vigor to the sedantary han people), melanasian, SE asian so on. So now han are not of han descent?

And the qing are not han you know that quite well. They are jurchen/manchu who ruled the han for like 3 centuries and forced you to wear the pigtail.
Btw when the qing kicked out the han race ming, the hui were fighting with the ming to try to throw out the qing.
Again they were fighting with the "nationalists" to overthrow the qing 3 centuries later.

Myanmar, malaya blah b;lah fact is hui are with the han.
Any of the 300 chinese fighting with ISIS is hui? Didn't think so.

Everybody has a bloody history not "fit" for textbooks. What are you crying about?

Also let me know when there are restriction on hui muslims, like they have for uyghur.

again I am only to point out what u as an Indian do not understand.

Chinese have a different idea neither ethic-based nor ideology-based abt "nationalism" from Indians.

Just a simple fact - unlike Indians most Chinese of different origins and languages (dialects) have been using the same writing system for thousands of years and taking the same centralized exams based on Confucian teachings. That served to forge a "nationalism" that keeps on assimilating beyond yr comprehension.

Chinese do not identify like u first narrowly with "punjabi" or "sikhism". That doesn't work with Chinese.

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

 

[rockey 71]

again I am only to point out what u as an Indian do not understand.

Chinese have a different idea neither ethic-based nor ideology-based abt "nationalism" from Indians.

Just a simple fact - unlike Indians most Chinese of different origins and languages (dialects) have been using the same writing system for thousands of years and taking the same centralized exams based on Confucian teachings. That served to forge a "nationalism" that keeps on assimilating beyond yr comprehension.

Chinese do not identify like u first narrowly with "punjabi" or "sikhism". That doesn't work with Chinese.

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

That's an excerpt from a tourist guide:

Muslim in Yunnan
The Hui Nationality had very first lived in Yunnan since the Tang Dynasty; and at that time, they had built mosques. A large number of the Hui people moved into Yunnan during the Yuan, Ming and Qing dynasties. During the early Qing Dynasty, Yunnan has nearly 800,000 Hui population, becoming China second largest Hui ethnic community after northwest region of China. According to the sixth census statistics in 2010, Yunnan province has 698,265 Hui population, which are distributed around the whole province.

The Shuncheng Street in Yunnan Kunming has been the first business street of Old Kunming since the early Ming Dynasty. All the Muslim restaurants and snacks are concentrated here; this street is really a Muslim flavor snack street in Kunming.

Yunnan province has more than 820 mosques. The famous ones are Kunming Nancheng Mosque, Kunming Shuncheng Street Mosque, GeJjiu Shadian Great Mosque, Tonghai Najiaying Mosque, etc...

Shadian is a famous hui ethnic community in Yunnan. The full name of Shadian is Yunnan Honghe Hani Yi Autonomous Prefecture Gejiu City Shadian District. It is the hometown of Muhammad Ma Jian and Lin Song, who are China's famous Islamic scholars and Arabic translators. ShaDian is located in the northern suburb of Gejiu City; about 12 kilometers away from the city. The new Shadian Great Mosque, built in 2010 is located on the side of Shadian Gongnong Bridge. It can accommodate 10,000 people's worship; it is the largest mosque in southwest China.

 

[Razor]

1. again I am only to point out what u as an Indian do not understand.

Chinese have a different idea neither ethic-based nor ideology-based abt "nationalism" from Indians.

2. Just a simple fact - unlike Indians most Chinese of different origins and languages (dialects) have been using the same writing system for thousands of years and taking the same centralized exams based on Confucian teachings. That served to forge a "nationalism" that keeps on assimilating beyond yr comprehension.

Chinese do not identify like u first narrowly with "punjabi" or "sikhism". That doesn't work with Chinese.

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

1. That's cool.
Yeah I do not fully comprehend the chinese, and I don't much care to other than the useful parts; coz I live in my world, not a Chinese world.

2. I can see your poor attempt at han chauvinsim when you talk about your "writings."
Let me tell you that you can do that in china and in chinese forums; it's not welcome here, at least not until you graduate to a proper alphabet based script.

 

[amoy]

1. That's cool.
Yeah I do not fully comprehend the chinese, and I don't much care to other than the useful parts; coz I live in my world, not a Chinese world.

2. I can see your poor attempt at han chauvinsim when you talk about your "writings."
Let me tell you that you can do that in china and in chinese forums; it's not welcome here, at least not until you graduate to a proper alphabet based script.

it's called a fact statement not chauvinism.

graduate to alphabet based blah blah?? only someone like u who lacks self respect would talk that way. the world is so big and diversified enough to accomodate both "alphabet based" and non alphabetic script.

u don't have to lecture with yr own inferiority complex. stay in yr world. I'm comfortable with our writing and it's one of strengths to communicate and comprehend both ways.

so cut your craps.

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

 

[amoy]

That's an excerpt from a tourist guide:

Muslim in Yunnan
The Hui Nationality had very first lived in Yunnan since the Tang Dynasty; and at that time, they had built mosques. A large number of the Hui people moved into Yunnan during the Yuan, Ming and Qing dynasties. During the early Qing Dynasty, Yunnan has nearly 800,000 Hui population, becoming China second largest Hui ethnic community after northwest region of China. According to the sixth census statistics in 2010, Yunnan province has 698,265 Hui population, which are distributed around the whole province.

The Shuncheng Street in Yunnan Kunming has been the first business street of Old Kunming since the early Ming Dynasty. All the Muslim restaurants and snacks are concentrated here; this street is really a Muslim flavor snack street in Kunming.

Yunnan province has more than 820 mosques. The famous ones are Kunming Nancheng Mosque, Kunming Shuncheng Street Mosque, GeJjiu Shadian Great Mosque, Tonghai Najiaying Mosque, etc...

Shadian is a famous hui ethnic community in Yunnan. The full name of Shadian is Yunnan Honghe Hani Yi Autonomous Prefecture Gejiu City Shadian District. It is the hometown of Muhammad Ma Jian and Lin Song, who are China's famous Islamic scholars and Arabic translators. ShaDian is located in the northern suburb of Gejiu City; about 12 kilometers away from the city. The new Shadian Great Mosque, built in 2010 is located on the side of Shadian Gongnong Bridge. It can accommodate 10,000 people's worship; it is the largest mosque in southwest China.

Shadian of Yunnan Prov. that's mentioned is so called "Little Mecca" where Wahabism is on the rise.

Most of Hui muslims came along with Mongol conquest to Yunnan.

Historically Hui referred to all muslims collectively.

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~