Indian Tank Ammunition Scenario

[agentperry]

New Delhi:



The Army has officially conveyed to the government that its war reserves for certain ammunition have fallen below critical levels. This has led the Defence Ministry to kickstart emergency procurement in some cases by exempting them from the offsets policy. This policy requires that in any purchase of over Rs 300 crore, the company or firm involved must re-invest 30 per cent back in India.

The instant case is that of tank ammunition called the Armoured Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot (APFSDS). The Army is learnt to have put it down in writing that it needs about 66,000 APFSDS rounds as an "immediate operational necessity". Similar is the problem with ammunition for the Smerch multi-barrel rocket launcher systems.

The APFSDS is vital for the Armoured Corps to take down enemy tanks in a tank-to-tank battle. India had a long-term arrangement with Israel for the ammunition but with Israel Military Industries (IMI) now blacklisted — facing a CBI probe — the Army has had to scout for fresh suppliers.



A Russian entity is said to have come forward but has quoted a price that is roughly 400 per cent higher than usual taking the cost beyond Rs1000 crore. This high quote had the Defence Acquisition Committee in a spot since the Russian firm is said to have been unwilling to accept the offset policy's 30 per cent condition.

Result: the government last week exempted the deal from the offsets policy.

Defence Minister A K Antony, who left for Russia this morning on a bilateral visit, is expected to take up the issue of high cost with the Russian government at a political level.

Meanwhile, in a similar case, the government has decided to float tenders to urgently import Bi-Modular Charge (BMC) systems. Without this charge in their ammunition, the upgraded 130-mm artillery guns can only fire a range of 18 to 23 km, which is half their range of 38-40 km. The BMC systems were to be made in the new Nalanda Ordnance Factory, but that has failed to take off because IMI and South African technology partner Somtech, a subsidiary of Denel, are in the blacklist.

* dont know what the hell OFB R&D department and ARDE etc do. such hi tech shells are nowhere to be seen in drdo brochures. just ww2 vinage shells*

 

[sayareakd]

* dont know what the hell OFB R&D department and ARDE etc do. such hi tech shells are nowhere to be seen in drdo brochures. just ww2 vinage shells*

scan0018.jpg (image)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8gXQngrI7x8/S3rPjfwmmBI/AAAAAAAAARw/Q50RGkpr998/s1600/15022010836.jpg

check this
Defence World

it is OFB job to make those in India, DRDO is just research agency in India.

 

[nitesh]

These ammos were supposed to be made in Nalanda factory, the IAI was black listed. Some times it is very curious that none of the Russian firms gets black listed, where as every one else gets short end of stick, with no results to show off. Now with high prices politicos and babus will make a killing.

 

[Blackwater]

hume to bofors scandel le dobba.. The ghost of bofors haunting every deal and company now.

here i support and hail pak army .Salee 1 minute legate ha to buy or beg stuff.we cant even do both

 

[Daredevil]

Oh man, Indian Army scales new heights again and again fumbling in management of its weapons. How did they come to a pass that suddenly there is a shortage of 66,000 APFSDS rounds. What were they doing all this while?? or is it MoDs fumbling in procuring them on a timely fashion. Wastage of money one more time. Well done GoI.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Some thing is very wrong, OFB supply Ammo to all T-tanks in India, I have seen OFB shells myself..

How come they are under shortage ?

 

[sayareakd]

Some thing is very wrong, OFB supply Ammo to all T-tanks in India, I have seen OFB shells myself..

How come they are under shortage ?

because OFB and DRDO dont pay unlike foreign suppliers........................

 

[p2prada]

Thousands of AMK-40 shells were destroyed because they were freezing in barrels when fired. It killed crews in T-72s. A new requirement was placed in 2010 but not much progress has been made. Looking at the article I am guessing MoD is taking it's own sweet time at making this decision.

Don't worry too much. This is one of those typical reports to get the govt working faster.

 

[Galaxy]

Blacklist effect: Tank ammo at critical low levels, MoD waives policy to buy :thumb:

Posted: Tue Oct 04 2011, 03:02 hrs
New Delhi:


The Army has officially conveyed to the government that its war reserves for certain ammunition have fallen below critical levels. This has led the Defence Ministry to kickstart emergency procurement in some cases by exempting them from the offsets policy. This policy requires that in any purchase of over Rs 300 crore, the company or firm involved must re-invest 30 per cent back in India.

The instant case is that of tank ammunition called the Armoured Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot (APFSDS). The Army is learnt to have put it down in writing that it needs about 66,000 APFSDS rounds as an "immediate operational necessity". Similar is the problem with ammunition for the Smerch multi-barrel rocket launcher systems.

The APFSDS is vital for the Armoured Corps to take down enemy tanks in a tank-to-tank battle. India had a long-term arrangement with Israel for the ammunition but with Israel Military Industries (IMI) now blacklisted — facing a CBI probe — the Army has had to scout for fresh suppliers.

A Russian entity is said to have come forward but has quoted a price that is roughly 400 per cent higher than usual taking the cost beyond Rs1000 crore. This high quote had the Defence Acquisition Committee in a spot since the Russian firm is said to have been unwilling to accept the offset policy's 30 per cent condition.

Result: the government last week exempted the deal from the offsets policy.

Defence Minister A K Antony, who left for Russia this morning on a bilateral visit, is expected to take up the issue of high cost with the Russian government at a political level.

Meanwhile, in a similar case, the government has decided to float tenders to urgently import Bi-Modular Charge (BMC) systems. Without this charge in their ammunition, the upgraded 130-mm artillery guns can only fire a range of 18 to 23 km, which is half their range of 38-40 km. The BMC systems were to be made in the new Nalanda Ordnance Factory, but that has failed to take off because IMI and South African technology partner Somtech, a subsidiary of Denel, are in the blacklist.

Blacklist effect: Tank ammo at critical low levels, MoD waives policy to buy - Indian Express

 

[Austin]

I recollect reading 80 thousand OFB tank rounds were waster becuase of some manufacturing defects and they had to be thrown leading to crores of losses , the tank shell had the tendency to blow off when it was fired and the tank crew were shit scared to use it , couple of them lost their life using it.

Its a case of criminal negligence but no one will sue OFB for it

 

[Austin]

Here it is Flaws in T 90 Main Battle Tanks troubles Indian Army

The T-90s are also facing a host of other problems, including a nearly exhausted inventory of ammunition. The tank's 125 mm smooth-bore gun is electronically configured to fire imported Russian AMK-338 and AMK-339 shells, the supply of which has run out after innumerable exercises.

Surprisingly, the T-90's gun has not been configured to fire the Indian-made AMK-340 shells. These shells have turned out rather dubious in quality, with over 150,000 rounds having to be destroyed, leading to the loss of over Rs 700 crores. Some AMK-340 shells have even burst inside the tanks, killing crew members, in at least one instance at Babina. Armoured Corps officers said many tank crews, who feared the shells would explode inside the barrel, had refused to use the faulty ammunition, and when forced to do so went to elaborate lengths, enabling them to fire from outside the tank.


According to the Armoured Corps officers, the ordnance factory board had triple-packed the 125 mm AMK-340 shells with propellant, but without adequate packing in between the layers to prevent leakage at high temperatures in which they are stored, often under the open sun. This had led not only to a near-complete freeze on regular firings but also "severely dented" the confidence of tank crews, sources said.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its a case of criminal negligence but no one will sue OFB for it

OFB quality of working is so messed up now its in INSAS or its ammo or Tank Shells, OFB lack discipline, Dont know abt Pay roll..

These guys need discipline and need basics upgrade of manufacturing plants..


Though 80,000 shells were fraction of IA tank ordinance, also T-72 and T-90S use different Ammo, Still army looking for Foreign ammo, Hopefully they will buy top class Russian ammo..

 

[SPIEZ]

LOL! why the sudden hurryit's not like all the tanks are going to war ????

 

[Dovah]

LOL! why the sudden hurryit's not like all the tanks are going to war ????

Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst

 

[Damian]

Why Indian Army use for excercises combat ammunition and not practice ammunition?

BTW, about these accidents, so there were explosions and cook-off of ammunition inside T-72 and possibly T-90 tanks?

I heard and seen similiar accidents in Russia, IRCC some crews were dead, not good informations.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Why Indian Army use for excercises combat ammunition and not practice ammunition?

BTW, about these accidents, so there were explosions and cook-off of ammunition inside T-72 and possibly T-90 tanks?

I heard and seen similiar accidents in Russia, IRCC some crews were dead, not good informations.

The Problem is with the charge..

 

[Damian]

It is too much sensitive to weather conditions (too high temperatures)? Or something else?

 

[thakur_ritesh]

this is an amazing stuff.

IMI gets blacklisted because of corruption charges, but for the same thing now there is just one supplier, is quoting the price at 400% over and above the prevailing market price (imagine the same being bought for 250crs) and the 30% off set policy is being set aside (for some reason the russians just dont do it).

what could be a bigger fraud than this? here is a blatant fraud happening and antony is sleeping over it!!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It is too much sensitive to weather conditions (too high temperatures)? Or something else?

the ordnance factory board had triple-packed the 125 mm AMK-340 shells with propellant, but without adequate packing in between the layers to prevent leakage at high temperatures in which they are stored, often under the open sun.

The charge bag have fault in manufacturing..

The propellant in semi solid form expanded under extrema heat and leaked out of the charge bag, Do note Indian Armour plays mainly in Thar desert and other western sector ( Extrema Heat ) Also do not Indian T-90 & T-72 dont have AC to keep things cool inside..

New powerful ammo comes with new tech in older Tank guns too, that need to be noted too..

 

[Damian]

So maybe India should talk with Germans or Americans, I think that it is possible for them to adapt their KE penetrators and propelant charges for T-72, T-90 and Arjun tanks, Germans can offer DM43, DM53 and DM63 based projectiles while Americans can offer KEW-A1 and KEW-A2 based projectiles, all of them made from Tungsten alloys and with high penetration capabilities, all are also designed to be used in high temperatures, so should meet all demands of Indian Army.

My country also had problems with Israeli made APFSDS ammunition, when cooperation was switched to Germans, no problems with ammunition quality, AFAIK Arab countries also don't have any quality problems with US KEW ammunition series.

Maybe it is worth to try?

Or Ukrainians, they have good 125mm two piece ammunition, we also can offer some products, but I do not know what is the status of production.

The charge bag have fault in manufacturing..

The propellant in semi solid form expanded under extrema heat and leaked out of the charge bag, Do note Indian Armour plays mainly in Thar desert and other western sector ( Extrema Heat ) Also do not Indian T-90 & T-72 dont have AC to keep things cool inside..

It is very strange that propelant leaked from bags, strange and unacceptabale, someone should be punished for such fucked up situation.

New powerful ammo comes with new tech in older Tank guns too, that need to be noted too..

Good.