Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Sancho]

Su-30 will ensure that PLAN surface ships will not be able to operate within the area they can control. You are now only left to handle the sub-surface fleet.

And that is the problem, because the subs are more difficult to counter and a higher threat for a pre-emotive strike. Put yourself in PLANs position. The logical way from their side, would be to use guided missile strikes from subs, to take out runways and bases at A&N. That dramatically cuts IAFs and INs air surveillance and attack capability in the IOR, which then paves the way for their CBGs to face INs surface fleet.

Also don't think of the ships as "civilian ships" they must be considered as their supply lines and must be controlled accordingly.

That's why you create a sea blockade, to stop such ships and not just attack and sink them.

The MKI with Brahmos is a crucial capability that we certainly needed, but it will play a bigger role in attacking high value land targets in Pak or Tibet. On the naval side, the IAF will contribute less, even if it has some capabilities for it.

 

[Kshithij]

And that is the problem, because the subs are more difficult to counter and a higher threat for a pre-emotive strike. Put yourself in PLANs position. The logical way from their side, would be to use guided missile strikes from subs, to take out runways and bases at A&N. That dramatically cuts IAFs and INs air surveillance and attack capability in the IOR, which then paves the way for their CBGs to face INs surface fleet.



That's why you create a sea blockade, to stop such ships and not just attack and sink them.

The MKI with Brahmos is a crucial capability that we certainly needed, but it will play a bigger role in attacking high value land targets in Pak or Tibet. On the naval side, the IAF will contribute less, even if it has some capabilities for it.

A&N is not a sitting duck. There is plenty of SAMs to take out enemy cruise missiles, sensors underwater to detect enemy submarine, storage of lots of ammunition and fuel in bomb-proof bunkers. The hangars are also hardened to resist bombs and missiles. The repairing of the airstrips will only take a day or two as the repair materials are also stored in advance.

PLAN is not insane to take out A&N and then get missiles hit on the mainland. There is no need for PLAN to attack by submarine either. If it is missile that need to be launched, why use submarine? Why not launch from land itself? Put yourself in PLAN's position and answer.

The biggest disadvantage of submarine is that it can't be used to carry cargo loads or troops for invasion. Submarines are stealthy but vulnerable to ASW aircrafts and are too slow to run if detected. The counter measures are also difficult. I don't see a reason for PLA to use submarines to attack A&N if they don't have ships nearby. If they have ships nearby, then Su30 is useful in destroying them.

 

[binayak95]

You are only thinking of sea denial by PLAN for IN. Infact we should be looking at choking Communist Navy's sea trade on which they are very much dependent.
While IN's surface ships may be bogged down because PLAN's submarines (tough ask in itself), we can use our air wing to choke their trade and oil in our sphere of operation.

Chinese submarines are very vulnerable. They are noisy and easily picked up by our P-8Is even now. They won't last in a war. I give PLAN forces two weeks after commencement of war. In 2 weeks there won't be single PLAN unit above or below water in IOR.

 

[Sancho]

Chinese submarines are very vulnerable. They are noisy and easily picked up by our P-8Is even now.

They already have AIP, a capability IN is still dreaming of. but geography is our advantage, since there are only a few locations where they can pass into the IOR.

 

[no smoking]

They already have AIP, a capability IN is still dreaming of. but geography is our advantage, since there are only a few locations where they can pass into the IOR.

There are hundreds of ships passing through these location. The noise of these ships will make anti-submarine task a nightmare.
But, I have to say: PLAN won't come to IOR to challenge Indian forces. The chance of victory over there is as much as Indian fleet in South China Sea: ZERO.

 

[Sancho]

There are hundreds of ships passing through these location. The noise of these ships will make anti-submarine task a nightmare.
But, I have to say: PLAN won't come to IOR to challenge Indian forces. The chance of victory over there is as much as Indian fleet in South China Sea: ZERO.

In peace times yes, in war times a blockade of at least one of these routes is likely, while the other puts IN in advantage.

It's not necessarily about victory, but about keep supply routes open and split Indian forces.

 

[binayak95]

They already have AIP, a capability IN is still dreaming of. but geography is our advantage, since there are only a few locations where they can pass into the IOR.

Having AIP doesn't help if your subs haven't matured enough to hide their signatures from both Sonar and MAD. P8As from Singapore and P8Is operating from INS Baaz regularly ensure that their is almost seamless, continuous trailing of PLAN subs through their transit from SCS and IOR.

 

[no smoking]

In peace times yes, in war times a blockade of at least one of these routes is likely, while the other puts IN in advantage.

If India decides to block any route, that means every country relying on that trade route will be blocked. You are not only blocking Chinese, but Japanese, Korean, South East Aisans, etc. In that case, the first one to challenge you won't be PLAN but USN as they guarantee the sailing freedom to everyone.

 

[no smoking]

Having AIP doesn't help if your subs haven't matured enough to hide their signatures from both Sonar and MAD. P8As from Singapore and P8Is operating from INS Baaz regularly ensure that their is almost seamless, continuous trailing of PLAN subs through their transit from SCS and IOR.

Last time I check Singapore is not India's ally. So I am not sure if Singapore wants to share their information with India by risking to piss off China which counts 26.8% of their exportation.
Even by adding on Singapore's P8, the number is still far below the necessary to cover 24x7. No one has that number. The americans is relying on their under-water listening chain. Even with these expensive equipment, most of time, Russian and Chinese sub-marines sneak out under the cover of commercial boat.
The question to India is: can you shut down the trade routes that are critical to all of Easter Asians?

 

[binayak95]

Last time I check Singapore is not India's ally. So I am not sure if Singapore wants to share their information with India by risking to piss off China which counts 26.8% of their exportation.
Even by adding on Singapore's P8, the number is still far below the necessary to cover 24x7. No one has that number. The americans is relying on their under-water listening chain. Even with these expensive equipment, most of time, Russian and Chinese sub-marines sneak out under the cover of commercial boat.
The question to India is: can you shut down the trade routes that are critical to all of Easter Asians?

Singapore doesn't even have P8As. Those are USN's P8As operating from Singapore. The P8I has a combat range of 2300 kms with four hours on station. Think on that for a moment. Add the fact that there are only 3 ways for anybody to egress into the IOR - Malacca, Lombok and Sunda. Still think we don't know who's coming and going from the IOR?

Russian subs with their anechoic tiles are a whole another ball game. But Chinese subs? They are being detected and trailed. This is happening now, without an operational SOSUS chain in the IOR. Once that happens, best of luck to the PLAN

 

[Steven Rogers]

Last time I check Singapore is not India's ally. So I am not sure if Singapore wants to share their information with India by risking to piss off China which counts 26.8% of their exportation.
Even by adding on Singapore's P8, the number is still far below the necessary to cover 24x7. No one has that number. The americans is relying on their under-water listening chain. Even with these expensive equipment, most of time, Russian and Chinese sub-marines sneak out under the cover of commercial boat.
The question to India is: can you shut down the trade routes that are critical to all of Easter Asians?

So That's why Japanese humiliated Chinese nuke sub. The major question for Chinese subs are will they hide behind their big ship's noise coz as far as I know, Indian Ocean has a warm thermal layer below some depth, and below that subs usually operate, so to detect them below that layer a Towed array sonars or to detect them in that layer, a powerful ship sonar is required which both India have .

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[binayak95]

If India decides to block any route, that means every country relying on that trade route will be blocked. You are not only blocking Chinese, but Japanese, Korean, South East Aisans, etc. In that case, the first one to challenge you won't be PLAN but USN as they guarantee the sailing freedom to everyone.

HAHAHHAHAHA! In wartime, it is your legal right to seize any and all merchantmen that are trading with your adversary. We had blocked Karachi in 71. Sank a US and a British merchantman too! Wiped out Karachi harbour with missile strikes. Did anyone do anything? NO! Because it was our right. Now, things are even more skewed in India's favour.

 

[Kshithij]

They already have AIP, a capability IN is still dreaming of. but geography is our advantage, since there are only a few locations where they can pass into the IOR.

China will use AIP submarine to come into Indian ocean region? Do you think that long distance back and forth is possible with diesel submarines?

If India decides to block any route, that means every country relying on that trade route will be blocked. You are not only blocking Chinese, but Japanese, Korean, South East Aisans, etc. In that case, the first one to challenge you won't be PLAN but USN as they guarantee the sailing freedom to everyone.

India is pretty damn strong and can flex its muscles well. If anyone hurts Indian interests, the ships of anyone supplying anything to them will be blocked.

But, I don't think Chinese vessels are the real concern as media is suggesting. China and India are geographically separated and I don't see any way for big time exchange of fire. The real enemies are Islamic countries like Malaysia, Indonesia (Indonesia even sided with Pakistan in 1971 war). Malacca exercise is to send a message to these creepy people

Last time I check Singapore is not India's ally. So I am not sure if Singapore wants to share their information with India by risking to piss off China which counts 26.8% of their exportation.
Even by adding on Singapore's P8, the number is still far below the necessary to cover 24x7. No one has that number. The americans is relying on their under-water listening chain. Even with these expensive equipment, most of time, Russian and Chinese sub-marines sneak out under the cover of commercial boat.
The question to India is: can you shut down the trade routes that are critical to all of Easter Asians?

Singapore has majority ethnic Chinese and is closer to China than India. However, Singapore is also surrounded by vicious Islamic countries. Singapore was even expelled from Malaysia in 1965 as the Malays considered the non-muslim chinese population as an irritation. India is the only closest superpower that can protect Singaporians in case of emergency. China is too far away. The relation with Singapore is based on more than just trade.

The exercise in Malacca straits more meaning than just blocking the path to Chinese. Chinese can find alternative route across Indonesia by expending a little more fuel cost. China already has too much money to bother about such small change.

 

[ezsasa]

China will use AIP submarine to come into Indian ocean region? Do you think that long distance back and forth is possible with diesel submarines?


India is pretty damn strong and can flex its muscles well. If anyone hurts Indian interests, the ships of anyone supplying anything to them will be blocked.

But, I don't think Chinese vessels are the real concern as media is suggesting. China and India are geographically separated and I don't see any way for big time exchange of fire. The real enemies are Islamic countries like Malaysia, Indonesia (Indonesia even sided with Pakistan in 1971 war). Malacca exercise is to send a message to these creepy people



Singapore has majority ethnic Chinese and is closer to China than India. However, Singapore is also surrounded by vicious Islamic countries. Singapore was even expelled from Malaysia in 1965 as the Malays considered the non-muslim chinese population as an irritation. India is the only closest superpower that can protect Singaporians in case of emergency. China is too far away. The relation with Singapore is based on more than just trade.

The exercise in Malacca straits more meaning than just blocking the path to Chinese. Chinese can find alternative route across Indonesia by expending a little more fuel cost. China already has too much money to bother about such small change.

No, Singapore is not on India’s side. They say they are neutral but they lean towards china. Just watch channel news Asia of mediacorp.

 

[WolfPack86]

It is better to cancel MMRCA tender and order other another 200 SU-30 MKI already we have 272 SU-30 MKi upgrade all SU -30 MKi to Super Sukhoi. This was Manohar Parikkar plan. When will we sign Super Sukoi upgrade deal with Russia?.

 

[Kshithij]

No, Singapore is not on India’s side. They say they are neutral but they lean towards china. Just watch channel news Asia of mediacorp.

Yes, as I said, Singaporeans are ethnic Chinese. Singapore is scared for its survival from nearby crazies. So, they are trying to be as close as possible to people who are culturally close like India, China etc. In reality, the enmity between China and India is mostly artificial and hides a darker reality. India needs an excuse to build up defence and China gives just that.

Singapore will support India over Indonesia and Malaysia any day. That is the most important thing here. Singapore is small and can't afford to take sides in between China and India. It needs both for its survival

 

[binayak95]

It is better to cancel MMRCA tender and order other another 200 SU-30 MKI already we have 272 SU-30 MKi upgrade all SU -30 MKi to Super Sukhoi. This was Manohar Parikkar plan. When will we sign Super Sukoi upgrade deal with Russia?.

There are a couple of issues with the Su30MKIs. They consume a heckload of fuel. And they're proving expensive to maintain. Plus the airframe has almost reached the limit for future upgrades. While, on the other hand, rafales are pretty new birds and their upgrades will keep rolling for atleast 25 years.

 

[Samsung J7]

It is better to cancel MMRCA tender and order other another 200 SU-30 MKI already we have 272 SU-30 MKi upgrade all SU -30 MKi to Super Sukhoi. This was Manohar Parikkar plan. When will we sign Super Sukoi upgrade deal with Russia?.

Dont waste more money in Russian jets. Russian jets hav very poor record against western jets in air to air combat. I believe paki f16s will give tough time to su30s

 

[Kshithij]

There are a couple of issues with the Su30MKIs. They consume a heckload of fuel. And they're proving expensive to maintain. Plus the airframe has almost reached the limit for future upgrades. While, on the other hand, rafales are pretty new birds and their upgrades will keep rolling for atleast 25 years.

Su30 is made in India. Regardless of fuel consumption, if needed for mass manufacturing in emergency, India needs Su30 MKI. Rafale may be a bit modern plane but it is still imported and India can't make large numbers of them even if needed urgently. One bird in hand is better than 2 birds in the bush

 

[binayak95]

Dont waste more money in Russian jets. Russian jets hav very poor record against western jets in air to air combat. I believe paki f16s will give tough time to su30s

Pak F16s giving tough time to Su30MKIs?!! Hahahhahahhahahaha! You're funny... That bird can wipe the floor with J20s.