Sukhoi PAK FA

[StealthFlanker]

Look at F-15SE with the same size cone Its AN/APG-63 (v3) AESA has very modest abilities being compared to even export N035E Irbis-E and match to much older N-011M Bars one.

what make you think APG-63 v3 has modest abilities compared to Irbis-E ??

So look at Russian PESA radar technical data (which is far superior to American AESAs) before making any conclusions
So we should look on technical data rather than anything else.

Can you be more clear with what technical aspect of Russian PESA radar that you think superior to US AESA of same class ? .And by class , i mean a similar aperture area , not something ridiculous like compares F-16's AESA to Su-35's PESA

 

[airtel]

@gadeshi You are talking about this processor >> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus-8S


^ this is made by TSMC which is a company of Taiwan & 28nm semiconductor is not the Latest technology .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC

I think India can develop & design a much better processor (we have an Industry to design semiconductors ) , which can be fabricated in FABs of ISRO or we have FAB of ARM too .

 

[gadeshi]

@gadeshi You are talking about this processor >> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus-8S
^ this is made by TSMC which is a company of Taiwan & 28nm semiconductor is not the Latest technology .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC
I think India can develop & design a much better processor (we have an Industry to design semiconductors ) , which can be fabricated in FABs of ISRO or we have FAB of ARM too .

It is manufactured by TSMC, but designed and developped by MTsST.
It's not the same thing.
Indians have semiconductors production but not processors architecture development.
Moreover this, even Intel cannot do a processor with scaling factor more than 4

 

[airtel]

It is manufactured by TSMC, but designed and developped by MTsST.
It's not the same thing.
Indians have semiconductors production but not processors architecture development.
Moreover this, even Intel cannot do a processor with scaling factor more than 4

You are wrong , we have a strong processors architecture development industry & now FAB too .


we can design & develop a much better processor ...........and then manufacture too .


even Intel I7 is much more powerful than this .:biggrin2::biggrin2:

 

[gadeshi]

You are wrong , we have a strong processors architecture development industry & now FAB too .
we can design & develop a much better processor ...........and then manufacture too .
even Intel I7 is much more powerful than this .:biggrin2::biggrin2:

Core i7 has higher frequency, but not higher performance in double precision operations and power efficiency (in which Elbrus is unbeatable).

 

[airtel]

Core i7 has higher frequency, but not higher performance in double precision operations and power efficiency (in which Elbrus is unbeatable).

you are wrong , Elbrus is also based on x86 architecture but it is built on 28nm process on the other hand 7th gen. i7 processors are 10nm process build so i7 will be much more energy efficient , cooler & powerful .

 

[gadeshi]

you are wrong , Elbrus is also based on x86 architecture but it is built on 28nm process on the other hand 7th gen. i7 processors are 10nm process build so i7 will be much more energy efficient , cooler & powerful .

Elbrus is not x86 and have never been.
Elbrus has WLIW MISC architecture with x86 translation block (to run GP OS like Windows or Linux) but its performance is relatively low in this (unusual) case.
Elbrus is a processor for "numbers crackers" - a high precision high loaded floating point computations inside engineering and scientific computation servers and supercomputers.
And of course, it is used in military computing blocks.
It works under specially WLIW MISC compiled version of MSVS or Astra Linux or some of real time OSes on the customer's choice.

 

[StealthFlanker]

I don't care that much about computer processor but from public information 64-bit floating-point operations per sec of the newest 2016 Elrbus-8S is 125 Gflops which is decent, i guess. But inferior to most intel chip like core i7 5960X , 5930K or Xeon E5 2687.. etc

 

[OnePunchMan]

It is manufactured by TSMC, but designed and developped by MTsST.
It's not the same thing.
Indians have semiconductors production but not processors architecture development.
Moreover this, even Intel cannot do a processor with scaling factor more than 4

Elbrus are shitty processor no one uses them and are based on old outdated 65nm architecture and they do not even come close to performance of latest intel processors even in number crunching.


their BIGGEST ADVANTAGE IS THAT THEY ARE BACK DOOR PROOF AND ARE USED IN MANY RUSSIAN MILITARY PRODUCTS AND PLATFORM NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS AND NOTHING CUTTING EDGE ABOUT THEM.

 

[gadeshi]

Elbrus are shitty processor no one uses them and are based on old outdated 65nm architecture and they do not even come close to performance of latest intel processors even in number crunching.
their BIGGEST ADVANTAGE IS THAT THEY ARE BACK DOOR PROOF AND ARE USED IN MANY RUSSIAN MILITARY PRODUCTS AND PLATFORM NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS AND NOTHING CUTTING EDGE ABOUT THEM.

The most idiots like you compare Elbrus with Xeon in Elbrus x86_64 compatibility mode.
Why to compare raw power?
Why to compare power consumption and power efficiency (flops per watt) and the rest of "boring" parameters, if your mind restrictions allow you to imagine Windows gaming tests only?
BTW, don't you know why US military providers rarely use Intel processors in their on-board systems but prefere IBM Cell instead?

 

[Bahamut]

Elbrus are shitty processor no one uses them and are based on old outdated 65nm architecture and they do not even come close to performance of latest intel processors even in number crunching.


their BIGGEST ADVANTAGE IS THAT THEY ARE BACK DOOR PROOF AND ARE USED IN MANY RUSSIAN MILITARY PRODUCTS AND PLATFORM NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS AND NOTHING CUTTING EDGE ABOUT THEM.

Elbrus is more used in heavy numerical computational system while Intel is used for commercial and home use. Go and see supercomputer, they do not use Intel but different processor . It like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[OnePunchMan]

The most idiots like you compare Elbrus with Xeon in Elbrus x86_64 compatibility mode.
Why to compare raw power?
Why to compare power consumption and power efficiency (flops per watt) and the rest of "boring" parameters, if your mind restrictions allow you to imagine Windows gaming tests only?
BTW, don't you know why US military providers rarely use Intel processors in their on-board systems but prefere IBM Cell instead?

watt for watt elbrius sucks ass i know nobody uses intel or OTS products in military applications and that why we have specialized chips like elbrius you also conveniently forgot that intel chips have an inbuilt GPUs in them and they acquire considerable size of total die shrink if it were a pure computational chip they will leave elbrus in the dust every day of the week and twice on sunday and the chips american use in their weapons are almost out of the world compared to elbrius.

also i know how powerful is IBM cell broadband they used it in ps3 and USAF made a supercomputer by stringing 1760 ps3s together.

http://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomputer.html

 

[gadeshi]

Elbrus is more used in heavy numerical computational system while Intel is used for commercial and home use. Go and see supercomputer, they do not use Intel but different processor . It like comparing apples and oranges.

They actually use Intel Xeon in that purpose, but Xeon has almost reached its effectiveness edge defined by x86 architecture.
So Intel has tried to make Elbrus-like WLIW Itanium, but failed to reach any success with it.
Meanwhile many of supercomputers users and manufacturers migrate from x86 processors to ARM and IBM Cell (most known commercial usage is Sony PS gaming console) as more extendable, scalable and power efficient solutions than Xeon.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[StealthFlanker]

Elbrus is more used in heavy numerical computational system while Intel is used for commercial and home use. Go and see supercomputer, they do not use Intel but different processor.

Supercomputers consists of a large amount of nodes, each with multiple CPUs - and those are server-grade processors with as many as 12 physical cores => incredible aggregate performance. In short, supercomputers aren't really faster they just alot more parallel. The world's fastest supercomputer uses a huge number of 12-core Xeon E5 processors, which are slower per-core than top of the line CPUs in the consumer market but make it up in multithreaded operation thanks to their huge number of cores. While you could compare the aggregate performance of a desktop system's CPUs and cores with the aggregate performance of a supercomputer, it will not scale to high performance in operations that cannot be divided into a large number of parallel tasks (if they can be parallelized at all) to take advantage of multiple cores and/or CPUs available.To sum up, a supercomputer will outperform a consumer PC in scenarios which allow for the calculations to be heavily multithreaded. In tasks which do not scale well, if at all - which means most consumer grade applications - the supercomputer hardware could actually perform worse.

 

[airtel]

They actually use Intel Xeon in that purpose, but Xeon has almost reached its effectiveness edge defined by x86 architecture.
So Intel has tried to make Elbrus-like WLIW Itanium, but failed to reach any success with it.
Meanwhile many of supercomputers users and manufacturers migrate from x86 processors to ARM and IBM Cell (most known commercial usage is Sony PS gaming console) as more extendable, scalable and power efficient solutions than Xeon.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

Intel Acquired Elbrus' Intellectual Property along with it's Engineers ( in 2004 ) .

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20040525031730.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
these are the Top semiconductor companies >>

none of them are Chinese or Russian or Indian , even Europeans are falling behind .

only Koreans & Taiwanese are somewhat challenging USA .


almost all of these companies have offices in India & Indians are working in them as engineers .

but we dont have a popular established semiconductor company like Intel or Samsung or MediaTek .



Elbrus is Good for Russia because it is unaffected by American sanctions ( but it is not the best ) also Elbrus is fabricated in Taiwan so it is not 100% sanction Proof .


if china is fighting a cold war with USA /Korea/Taiwan then they will loose all of their electronics industry .

@Indx TechStyle

 

[gadeshi]

Intel Acquired Elbrus' Intellectual Property along with it's Engineers ( in 2004 ) .

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20040525031730.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
these are the Top semiconductor companies >>

none of them are Chinese or Russian or Indian , even Europeans are falling behind .

only Koreans & Taiwanese are somewhat challenging USA .


almost all of these companies have offices in India & Indians are working in them as engineers .

but we dont have a popular established semiconductor company like Intel or Samsung or MediaTek .



Elbrus is Good for Russia because it is unaffected by American sanctions ( but it is not the best ) also Elbrus is fabricated in Taiwan so it is not 100% sanction Proof .


if china is fighting a cold war with USA /Korea/Taiwan then they will loose all of their electronics industry .

@Indx TechStyle

Elbrus is fabricated on Taiwan and in Riazan (istok FAB, where AESA TRMs made)

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[airtel]

Elbrus is fabricated on Taiwan and in Riazan ((istok FAB, where AESA TRMs made)

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

Nobody said Russia doesnt have FAB. I am saying that Russian semiconductor FAB is 65nm which is generations behind of the current 10nm.


http://www.geektime.com/2014/04/30/...nics-gets-60m-to-finish-building-its-factory/

^ this is why , Russia used TSMC of taiwan for fabrication of 28nm Elbrus .

 

[gadeshi]

Nobody said Russia doesnt have FAB. I am saying that Russian semiconductor FAB is 65nm which is generations behind of the current 10nm.


http://www.geektime.com/2014/04/30/...nics-gets-60m-to-finish-building-its-factory/

^ this is why , Russia used TSMC of taiwan for fabrication of 28nm Elbrus .

Used untill 2014

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[airtel]

Used untill 2014

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

sorry , but it started production in late 2014 >>

The factory is expected to begin production in 2014 and will be capable of producing up to 500 wafers a week at first. Under a second phase, the factory will be able to produce 1,000 wafers weekly. CNE launched its first product line in October.

http://www.geektime.com/2014/04/30/...nics-gets-60m-to-finish-building-its-factory/

 

[bhramos]

.............................................................................................................................................................................