Rajputs in medieval age - battles and discussions

punjab47

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Everybody hate Rajputs but still want some piece of Rajput pie :)
Jai Maa Bhavani
Even Shivaji and his ancestors wanted to associated with Rajputs lineage,what an irony and a big slap to pinadries here. :lol:
These people have forgotten their aukaat.
It's all very humorous,
 

angeldude13

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"Gurjars had been ruling India since historical times; their some families were called Rajputs in medieval period".

All Rajputs are not Gurjars,but most of the chieftains were of Gurjar origin(especially Bappa Rawal and Prithviraj Chauhan).These chieftains who during course of centuries subdivided into smaller principalities,Thikanas and Jagirs(especially in Rajputana).
A small force of armed men and horse riders that they kept to protect themselves were known as Rajputs.Sometimes a commander will defect with other soldiers and form his own 'riyasat' some faraway place and declare himself as 'raja' of that particular tract of land.This practice became rampant in those times where there was no phone,email,satellite images or even maps.
Besides,nobody cared as to what was happening in that 'dustbowl' (which Rajputana actually was) during those times.
You can find this very practice in present day business empires where a ceo works for a few years and then starts his own venture or for that matter any employee can do that and start his own venture by hiring a few people.And thus mushrooms many other companies with every founder calling himself as 'business tycoon'.
These 'Rajas' were only scared of every other 'Raja' of this dustbowl.
Exercises of plotting,planning,one upmanship,jealousies,deceit,suspicion,incompetence,sycophancy became the order of the day.
So 'Rajputs' were never meant to fight wars with a Sultanat ,but were there just to act as a deterrent to the neighboring 'Rajas\Riyasats'. Occasionally they would participate in small skirmishes that may trigger if rival doen't act with tact.
The question of unity amongst Rajput doesn't arise for they were not from same stock (but were different armies).
With time evolved themselves into different stocks of 'Rajputs' and became a regular/favourite recruiting grounds for their respective principalities.
In came the British and rest is history.
Gujjar are gujjar and Rajputs are Rajputs. You should be proud of your ancestors.
But why claim others ancestors??
It makes you look pathetic and shameless....
 

Bornubus

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"Gurjars had been ruling India since historical times; their some families were called Rajputs in medieval period".

All Rajputs are not Gurjars,but most of the chieftains were of Gurjar origin(especially Bappa Rawal and Prithviraj Chauhan).These chieftains who during course of centuries subdivided into smaller principalities,Thikanas and Jagirs(especially in Rajputana).
A small force of armed men and horse riders that they kept to protect themselves were known as Rajputs.Sometimes a commander will defect with other soldiers and form his own 'riyasat' some faraway place and declare himself as 'raja' of that particular tract of land.This practice became rampant in those times where there was no phone,email,satellite images or even maps.
Besides,nobody cared as to what was happening in that 'dustbowl' (which Rajputana actually was) during those times.
You can find this very practice in present day business empires where a ceo works for a few years and then starts his own venture or for that matter any employee can do that and start his own venture by hiring a few people.And thus mushrooms many other companies with every founder calling himself as 'business tycoon'.
These 'Rajas' were only scared of every other 'Raja' of this dustbowl.
Exercises of plotting,planning,one upmanship,jealousies,deceit,suspicion,incompetence,sycophancy became the order of the day.
So 'Rajputs' were never meant to fight wars with a Sultanat ,but were there just to act as a deterrent to the neighboring 'Rajas\Riyasats'. Occasionally they would participate in small skirmishes that may trigger if rival doen't act with tact.
The question of unity amongst Rajput doesn't arise for they were not from same stock (but were different armies).
With time evolved themselves into different stocks of 'Rajputs' and became a regular/favourite recruiting grounds for their respective principalities.
In came the British and rest is history.
"Gurjars had been ruling India since historical times; their some families were called Rajputs in medieval period".

All Rajputs are not Gurjars,but most of the chieftains were of Gurjar origin(especially Bappa Rawal and Prithviraj Chauhan).These chieftains who during course of centuries subdivided into smaller principalities,Thikanas and Jagirs(especially in Rajputana).
A small force of armed men and horse riders that they kept to protect themselves were known as Rajputs.Sometimes a commander will defect with other soldiers and form his own 'riyasat' some faraway place and declare himself as 'raja' of that particular tract of land.This practice became rampant in those times where there was no phone,email,satellite images or even maps.
Besides,nobody cared as to what was happening in that 'dustbowl' (which Rajputana actually was) during those times.
You can find this very practice in present day business empires where a ceo works for a few years and then starts his own venture or for that matter any employee can do that and start his own venture by hiring a few people.And thus mushrooms many other companies with every founder calling himself as 'business tycoon'.
These 'Rajas' were only scared of every other 'Raja' of this dustbowl.
Exercises of plotting,planning,one upmanship,jealousies,deceit,suspicion,incompetence,sycophancy became the order of the day.
So 'Rajputs' were never meant to fight wars with a Sultanat ,but were there just to act as a deterrent to the neighboring 'Rajas\Riyasats'. Occasionally they would participate in small skirmishes that may trigger if rival doen't act with tact.
The question of unity amongst Rajput doesn't arise for they were not from same stock (but were different armies).
With time evolved themselves into different stocks of 'Rajputs' and became a regular/favourite recruiting grounds for their respective principalities.
In came the British and rest is history.
Please also provide the Gay source of your post,that you copy pasted.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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So now the thread has become- proud Gujjars vs proud Rajputs!!

Btw, @flamboyant - do you also think your ancestors were blue eyed Caucasians i.e. Aryans?
 

punjab47

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punjab47

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Bajirao the great Hindu nationalist — That’s only in the movies

December 20, 2015, 12:00 am IST Aakar Patel in Aakarvani | India | TOI

I think I’ll write about Bajirao Mastani today. I have not seen the movie, nor do I intend to (only one Gujarati makes the cut as director of watchable pap and that is neither Sanjay Leela Bhansali nor Sajid Nadiadwala, but Manmohan Desai, a true master). However, I have read Bajirao Mastani’s reviews and one of them said to my alarm, that the film “explores the romantic side of 18th-century Maratha general Bajirao Ballal Bhat, who fought and won 40 battles against the Mughals with an aim to create a unified Hindu kingdom or Akhand Bharatvarsha”.

Whoa, hold it right there. First, the Marathas only ever wanted a Marathi kingdom for themselves. It was not unified, hardly akhand and never Hindu. The Marathas were despised by other Hindu rulers, and disliked by non-Marathi Hindus as well, as history shows us.

Bajirao and the Marathas campaigned for one thing alone, and it was called chauth. It meant a fourth of all revenue from other kingdoms, no matter what the faith of king and subject, and at collecting this Bajirao and the rest were efficient.

Maratha extortion caused Jaipur’s Ishwari Singh to commit suicide in December 1750. Sir Jadunath Sarkar (the Manmohan Desai of our historians) writes of what followed in his four-volume classic, Fall of the Mughal Empire: “On 10 January, some 4,000 Marathas entered Jaipur… (and) despising the helpless condition of a king propped up by their arms, seemed to have behaved towards Jaipur as a city taken by storm. Suddenly the pent-up hatred of the Rajputs burst forth; a riot broke out at noon, and the citizens attacked the unsuspecting Marathas. For nine hours slaughter and pillage raged.”

The Marathas first invaded Bengal in 1742. Of their behaviour, the New Cambridge History of India tells us that “all authorities, both Indian and European are agreed”. A contemporary writer calls them “slayers of pregnant women and infants” and Sarkar has recorded their gang-rape of Hindu women, inexplicably stuffing the mouths of their victims with dust and breaking their arms and tying them behind their backs. The only Indian to try and protect his subjects against the Marathas incidentally, was the Mughal governor Ali Vardi Khan. So much for Akhand Bharat. But I must say that the Marathas did not behave differently from any other ruler or warrior community, and the idea of a unified Hindu sentiment exists only in the imagination of those who get their history from the movies.

What the Marathas did striking north from the south, the Sikhs did in the opposite direction (they called their extortion ‘rakhi’, or protection, and it was 10% for all Indians). It is undeniably true on the other hand that the Marathas were originals.

It is important for this romance between Bajirao and Mastani that she knew how to ride well because there were no palanquins and howdahs travelling with the Marathas as there were with the Mughals.

The Marathas were the Mongols of South Asia, always on horseback, and with no infantry and no giant camp behind. Even the scavengers who followed them around, the bargis, rode. When the monsoons ended, the Maratha army, about 40,000 men, rode across the Narmada and Tapi, the border that marked off the Deccan, and attacked ‘Hindustan’.

Shivaji always organised this on a particular day: Dussehra (Bal Thackeray continued this tradition of declaring war on other Indians with his fiery Dussehra speeches). After the death of the peasant king, power passed to the Brahmin peshwas of whom the best was Bajirao. As the Mughal fighting ability and finances (the two being interchangeable) declined after Aurangzeb, the Marathas began penetrating increasingly into hitherto unknown territory in the north. It was the young Bajirao, then only in his teens, who determined, rightly, in one of these raids that the Mughals had gone soft and could no longer defend the realm.

From this point on, the Marathas began holding ground instead of just taking their horses back. It is why we see Marathi names like Holkar and Scindia and Gaekwad in parts of India they do not naturally belong. Everyone grabbed what they could and held onto it, there was no Hindu or Bharat angle to any of it.

Bajirao had one good battlefield victory, against Chin Qilich Khan, first Nizam of Hyderabad. It was a positional win, meaning the arrangement of Bajirao’s force gave no space for Khan and he gave up without much fighting. Like chess. A similar situation came in Panipat, when Abdali positioned the Marathas out. Bravely, the Marathas chose to fight and were slaughtered. Scindia (Jyotiraditya’s ancestor) and Holkar, it may interest the reader, fled the field, and the man who helped Abdali with supplies ensuring his win was Ala Singh. Abdali rewarded him by making him Maharaja of Patiala, Captain Amarinder Singh’s ancestor.

Can you spot any Hindu or nationalist angle to any of it? No, because it exists only in the movies.
 

punjab47

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Bajirao the great Hindu nationalist — That’s only in the movies

December 20, 2015, 12:00 am IST Aakar Patel in Aakarvani | India | TOI

I think I’ll write about Bajirao Mastani today. I have not seen the movie, nor do I intend to (only one Gujarati makes the cut as director of watchable pap and that is neither Sanjay Leela Bhansali nor Sajid Nadiadwala, but Manmohan Desai, a true master). However, I have read Bajirao Mastani’s reviews and one of them said to my alarm, that the film “explores the romantic side of 18th-century Maratha general Bajirao Ballal Bhat, who fought and won 40 battles against the Mughals with an aim to create a unified Hindu kingdom or Akhand Bharatvarsha”.

Whoa, hold it right there. First, the Marathas only ever wanted a Marathi kingdom for themselves. It was not unified, hardly akhand and never Hindu. The Marathas were despised by other Hindu rulers, and disliked by non-Marathi Hindus as well, as history shows us.

Bajirao and the Marathas campaigned for one thing alone, and it was called chauth. It meant a fourth of all revenue from other kingdoms, no matter what the faith of king and subject, and at collecting this Bajirao and the rest were efficient.

Maratha extortion caused Jaipur’s Ishwari Singh to commit suicide in December 1750. Sir Jadunath Sarkar (the Manmohan Desai of our historians) writes of what followed in his four-volume classic, Fall of the Mughal Empire: “On 10 January, some 4,000 Marathas entered Jaipur… (and) despising the helpless condition of a king propped up by their arms, seemed to have behaved towards Jaipur as a city taken by storm. Suddenly the pent-up hatred of the Rajputs burst forth; a riot broke out at noon, and the citizens attacked the unsuspecting Marathas. For nine hours slaughter and pillage raged.”

The Marathas first invaded Bengal in 1742. Of their behaviour, the New Cambridge History of India tells us that “all authorities, both Indian and European are agreed”. A contemporary writer calls them “slayers of pregnant women and infants” and Sarkar has recorded their gang-rape of Hindu women, inexplicably stuffing the mouths of their victims with dust and breaking their arms and tying them behind their backs. The only Indian to try and protect his subjects against the Marathas incidentally, was the Mughal governor Ali Vardi Khan. So much for Akhand Bharat. But I must say that the Marathas did not behave differently from any other ruler or warrior community, and the idea of a unified Hindu sentiment exists only in the imagination of those who get their history from the movies.

What the Marathas did striking north from the south, the Sikhs did in the opposite direction (they called their extortion ‘rakhi’, or protection, and it was 10% for all Indians). It is undeniably true on the other hand that the Marathas were originals.

It is important for this romance between Bajirao and Mastani that she knew how to ride well because there were no palanquins and howdahs travelling with the Marathas as there were with the Mughals.

The Marathas were the Mongols of South Asia, always on horseback, and with no infantry and no giant camp behind. Even the scavengers who followed them around, the bargis, rode. When the monsoons ended, the Maratha army, about 40,000 men, rode across the Narmada and Tapi, the border that marked off the Deccan, and attacked ‘Hindustan’.

Shivaji always organised this on a particular day: Dussehra (Bal Thackeray continued this tradition of declaring war on other Indians with his fiery Dussehra speeches). After the death of the peasant king, power passed to the Brahmin peshwas of whom the best was Bajirao. As the Mughal fighting ability and finances (the two being interchangeable) declined after Aurangzeb, the Marathas began penetrating increasingly into hitherto unknown territory in the north. It was the young Bajirao, then only in his teens, who determined, rightly, in one of these raids that the Mughals had gone soft and could no longer defend the realm.

From this point on, the Marathas began holding ground instead of just taking their horses back. It is why we see Marathi names like Holkar and Scindia and Gaekwad in parts of India they do not naturally belong. Everyone grabbed what they could and held onto it, there was no Hindu or Bharat angle to any of it.

Bajirao had one good battlefield victory, against Chin Qilich Khan, first Nizam of Hyderabad. It was a positional win, meaning the arrangement of Bajirao’s force gave no space for Khan and he gave up without much fighting. Like chess. A similar situation came in Panipat, when Abdali positioned the Marathas out. Bravely, the Marathas chose to fight and were slaughtered. Scindia (Jyotiraditya’s ancestor) and Holkar, it may interest the reader, fled the field, and the man who helped Abdali with supplies ensuring his win was Ala Singh. Abdali rewarded him by making him Maharaja of Patiala, Captain Amarinder Singh’s ancestor.

Can you spot any Hindu or nationalist angle to any of it? No, because it exists only in the movies.
Except we don't rape or loot Hindu temples or women.

The boundary between Deccan & Aryavarta is very real & why they have such an inferiority complex.
 

VIP

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Except we don't rape or loot Hindu temples or women.

The boundary between Deccan & Aryavarta is very real & why they have such an inferiority complex.
What's the point of this inferiority complex ??? I mean, who are they and who are we not raping, looting women and temples ???
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Except we don't rape or loot Hindu temples or women.

The boundary between Deccan & Aryavarta is very real & why they have such an inferiority complex.
Yes, you just give away your daughters to save your ass..sorry I mean throne!
 

Bornubus

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Bajirao the great Hindu nationalist — That’s only in the movies

December 20, 2015, 12:00 am IST Aakar Patel in Aakarvani | India | TOI

I think I’ll write about Bajirao Mastani today. I have not seen the movie, nor do I intend to (only one Gujarati makes the cut as director of watchable pap and that is neither Sanjay Leela Bhansali nor Sajid Nadiadwala, but Manmohan Desai, a true master). However, I have read Bajirao Mastani’s reviews and one of them said to my alarm, that the film “explores the romantic side of 18th-century Maratha general Bajirao Ballal Bhat, who fought and won 40 battles against the Mughals with an aim to create a unified Hindu kingdom or Akhand Bharatvarsha”.

Whoa, hold it right there. First, the Marathas only ever wanted a Marathi kingdom for themselves. It was not unified, hardly akhand and never Hindu. The Marathas were despised by other Hindu rulers, and disliked by non-Marathi Hindus as well, as history shows us.

Bajirao and the Marathas campaigned for one thing alone, and it was called chauth. It meant a fourth of all revenue from other kingdoms, no matter what the faith of king and subject, and at collecting this Bajirao and the rest were efficient.

Maratha extortion caused Jaipur’s Ishwari Singh to commit suicide in December 1750. Sir Jadunath Sarkar (the Manmohan Desai of our historians) writes of what followed in his four-volume classic, Fall of the Mughal Empire: “On 10 January, some 4,000 Marathas entered Jaipur… (and) despising the helpless condition of a king propped up by their arms, seemed to have behaved towards Jaipur as a city taken by storm. Suddenly the pent-up hatred of the Rajputs burst forth; a riot broke out at noon, and the citizens attacked the unsuspecting Marathas. For nine hours slaughter and pillage raged.”

The Marathas first invaded Bengal in 1742. Of their behaviour, the New Cambridge History of India tells us that “all authorities, both Indian and European are agreed”. A contemporary writer calls them “slayers of pregnant women and infants” and Sarkar has recorded their gang-rape of Hindu women, inexplicably stuffing the mouths of their victims with dust and breaking their arms and tying them behind their backs. The only Indian to try and protect his subjects against the Marathas incidentally, was the Mughal governor Ali Vardi Khan. So much for Akhand Bharat. But I must say that the Marathas did not behave differently from any other ruler or warrior community, and the idea of a unified Hindu sentiment exists only in the imagination of those who get their history from the movies.

What the Marathas did striking north from the south, the Sikhs did in the opposite direction (they called their extortion ‘rakhi’, or protection, and it was 10% for all Indians). It is undeniably true on the other hand that the Marathas were originals.

It is important for this romance between Bajirao and Mastani that she knew how to ride well because there were no palanquins and howdahs travelling with the Marathas as there were with the Mughals.

The Marathas were the Mongols of South Asia, always on horseback, and with no infantry and no giant camp behind. Even the scavengers who followed them around, the bargis, rode. When the monsoons ended, the Maratha army, about 40,000 men, rode across the Narmada and Tapi, the border that marked off the Deccan, and attacked ‘Hindustan’.

Shivaji always organised this on a particular day: Dussehra (Bal Thackeray continued this tradition of declaring war on other Indians with his fiery Dussehra speeches). After the death of the peasant king, power passed to the Brahmin peshwas of whom the best was Bajirao. As the Mughal fighting ability and finances (the two being interchangeable) declined after Aurangzeb, the Marathas began penetrating increasingly into hitherto unknown territory in the north. It was the young Bajirao, then only in his teens, who determined, rightly, in one of these raids that the Mughals had gone soft and could no longer defend the realm.

From this point on, the Marathas began holding ground instead of just taking their horses back. It is why we see Marathi names like Holkar and Scindia and Gaekwad in parts of India they do not naturally belong. Everyone grabbed what they could and held onto it, there was no Hindu or Bharat angle to any of it.

Bajirao had one good battlefield victory, against Chin Qilich Khan, first Nizam of Hyderabad. It was a positional win, meaning the arrangement of Bajirao’s force gave no space for Khan and he gave up without much fighting. Like chess. A similar situation came in Panipat, when Abdali positioned the Marathas out. Bravely, the Marathas chose to fight and were slaughtered. Scindia (Jyotiraditya’s ancestor) and Holkar, it may interest the reader, fled the field, and the man who helped Abdali with supplies ensuring his win was Ala Singh. Abdali rewarded him by making him Maharaja of Patiala, Captain Amarinder Singh’s ancestor.

Can you spot any Hindu or nationalist angle to any of it? No, because it exists only in the movies.
Although the writer Akar Patel is a Musalman,who has the tendency to write filth against hindus but here we all have to agree that Marathas did persecuted Hindus especially their Muslims Pindaries.
 

parijataka

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troll.in in on the action now - I think because Maharana Pratap will be in history textbooks along with their favourite Mughals...:dude:

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad , @Mad Indian and all others who are dissing Rajputs - these brave people paid with their blood to save Hindus. While Iran fell within a matter of decades to Islam, Rajasthan and India continues to resist...

What our textbooks don't tell us: Why the Rajputs failed miserably in battle for centuries
They were defeated by Ghazni, Ghuri, Khilji, Babur, Akbar, the Marathas and the British.

The home minister, Rajnath Singh, wishes our school textbooks told us more about the Rajput king Rana Pratap, and less about the Mughal emperor Akbar. I, on the other hand, wish they explained why Rajputs fared so miserably on the battlefield.

A thousand years ago, Rajput kings ruled much of North India. Then they lost to Ghazni, lost to Ghuri, lost to Khilji, lost to Babur, lost to Akbar, lost to the Marathas, and keeled over before the British. The Marathas and Brits hardly count since the Rajputs were a spent force by the time Akbar was done with them. Having been confined to an arid part of the subcontinent by the early Sultans, they were reduced to vassals by the Mughals.

The three most famous Rajput heroes not only took a beating in crucial engagements, but also retreated from the field of battle. Prithviraj Chauhan was captured while bolting and executed after the second battle of Tarain in 1192 CE, while Rana Sanga got away after losing to Babur at Khanua in 1527, as did Rana Pratap after the battle of Haldighati in 1576. To compensate for, or explain away, these debacles, the bards of Rajputana replaced history with legend.

Specialists in failure

It is worth asking, surely, what made Rajputs such specialists in failure. Yet, the question hardly ever comes up. When it does, the usual explanation is that the Rajputs faced Muslim invaders whose fanaticism was their strength. Nothing could be further than the truth. Muslim rulers did use the language of faith to energise their troops, but commitment is only the first step to victory. The Rajputs themselves never lacked commitment, and their courage invariably drew the praise of their enemies. Even a historian as fundamentalist as Badayuni rhapsodised about Rajput valour. Babur wrote that his troops were unnerved, ahead of the Khanua engagement, by the reputed fierceness of Rana Sanga’s forces, their willingness to fight to the death.

Let’s cancel out courage and fanaticism as explanations, then, for each side displayed these in equal measure. What remains is discipline, technical and technological prowess, and tactical acumen. In each of these departments, the Rajputs were found wanting. Their opponents, usually Turkic, used a complex battle plan involving up to five different divisions. Fleet, mounted archers would harry opponents at the start, and often make a strategic retreat, inducing their enemy to charge into an ambush. Behind these stood the central division and two flanks. While the centre absorbed the brunt of the enemy’s thrust, the flanks would wheel around to surround and hem in opponents. Finally, there was a reserve that could be pressed into action wherever necessary. Communication channels between divisions were quick and answered to a clear hierarchy that was based largely on merit.

Contrast this with the Rajput system, which was simple, predictable, and profoundly foolish, consisting of a headlong attack with no Plan B. In campaigns against forces that had come through the Khyber Pass, Rajputs usually had a massive numerical advantage. Prithviraj’s troops outnumbered Ghuri’s at the second battle of Tarain by perhaps three to one. At Khanua, Rana Sanga commanded at least four soldiers for every one available to Babur. Unlike Sanga’s forces, though, Babur’s were hardy veterans. After defeating Ibrahim Lodi at Panipat, the founder of the Mughal dynasty had the option of using the generals he inherited from the Delhi Sultan, but preferred to stick with soldiers he trusted. He knew numbers are meaningless except when acting on a coherent strategy under a unified command. Rajput troops rarely answered to one leader, because each member of the confederacy would have his own prestige and ego to uphold. Caste considerations made meritocracy impossible. The enemy general might be a freed Abyssinian slave, but Rajput leadership was decided by clan membership.

Absent meritocratic promotion, an established chain of command, a good communication system, and a contingency plan, Rajput forces were regularly taken apart by the opposition’s mobile cavalry. Occasionally, as with the composite bows and light armour of Ghuri’s horsemen, or the matchlocks employed by Babur, technological advances played a role in the outcome.

Ossified tactics

What’s astonishing is that centuries of being out-thought and out-manoeuvred had no impact on the Rajput approach to war. Rana Pratap used precisely the same full frontal attack at Haldighati in 1576 that had failed so often before. Haldighati was a minor clash by the standards of Tarain and Khanua. Pratap was at the head of perhaps 3,000 men and faced about 5,000 Mughal troops. The encounter was far from the Hindu Rajput versus Muslim confrontation it is often made out to be. Rana Pratap had on his side a force of Bhil archers, as well as the assistance of Hakim Shah of the Sur clan, which had ruled North India before Akbar’s rise to power. Man Singh, a Rajput who had accepted Akbar’s suzerainty and adopted the Turko-Mongol battle plan led the Mughal troops. Though Pratap’s continued rebellion following his defeat at Haldighati was admirable in many ways, he was never anything more than an annoyance to the Mughal army. That he is now placed, in the minds of many Indians, on par with Akbar or on a higher plane says much about the twisted communal politics of the subcontinent.

There’s one other factor that is thought to have contributed substantially to Rajput defeats: the opium habit. Taking opium was established practice among Rajputs in any case, but they considerably upped the quantity they consumed when going into battle. Several ended up in no fit state to process any instruction beyond, “kill or be killed”. Opium rendered some soldiers incapable of coordinating complex manoeuvres. There’s an apt warning for school kids: don’t do drugs, or you’ll squander an empire.
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Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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troll.in in on the action now - I think because Maharana Pratap will be in history textbooks along with their favourite Mughals...:dude:

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad , @Mad Indian and all others who are dissing Rajputs - these brave people paid with their blood to save Hindus. While Iran fell within a matter of decades to Islam, Rajasthan and India continues to resist...

What our textbooks don't tell us: Why the Rajputs failed miserably in battle for centuries
They were defeated by Ghazni, Ghuri, Khilji, Babur, Akbar, the Marathas and the British.

The home minister, Rajnath Singh, wishes our school textbooks told us more about the Rajput king Rana Pratap, and less about the Mughal emperor Akbar. I, on the other hand, wish they explained why Rajputs fared so miserably on the battlefield.

A thousand years ago, Rajput kings ruled much of North India. Then they lost to Ghazni, lost to Ghuri, lost to Khilji, lost to Babur, lost to Akbar, lost to the Marathas, and keeled over before the British. The Marathas and Brits hardly count since the Rajputs were a spent force by the time Akbar was done with them. Having been confined to an arid part of the subcontinent by the early Sultans, they were reduced to vassals by the Mughals.

The three most famous Rajput heroes not only took a beating in crucial engagements, but also retreated from the field of battle. Prithviraj Chauhan was captured while bolting and executed after the second battle of Tarain in 1192 CE, while Rana Sanga got away after losing to Babur at Khanua in 1527, as did Rana Pratap after the battle of Haldighati in 1576. To compensate for, or explain away, these debacles, the bards of Rajputana replaced history with legend.

Specialists in failure

It is worth asking, surely, what made Rajputs such specialists in failure. Yet, the question hardly ever comes up. When it does, the usual explanation is that the Rajputs faced Muslim invaders whose fanaticism was their strength. Nothing could be further than the truth. Muslim rulers did use the language of faith to energise their troops, but commitment is only the first step to victory. The Rajputs themselves never lacked commitment, and their courage invariably drew the praise of their enemies. Even a historian as fundamentalist as Badayuni rhapsodised about Rajput valour. Babur wrote that his troops were unnerved, ahead of the Khanua engagement, by the reputed fierceness of Rana Sanga’s forces, their willingness to fight to the death.

Let’s cancel out courage and fanaticism as explanations, then, for each side displayed these in equal measure. What remains is discipline, technical and technological prowess, and tactical acumen. In each of these departments, the Rajputs were found wanting. Their opponents, usually Turkic, used a complex battle plan involving up to five different divisions. Fleet, mounted archers would harry opponents at the start, and often make a strategic retreat, inducing their enemy to charge into an ambush. Behind these stood the central division and two flanks. While the centre absorbed the brunt of the enemy’s thrust, the flanks would wheel around to surround and hem in opponents. Finally, there was a reserve that could be pressed into action wherever necessary. Communication channels between divisions were quick and answered to a clear hierarchy that was based largely on merit.

Contrast this with the Rajput system, which was simple, predictable, and profoundly foolish, consisting of a headlong attack with no Plan B. In campaigns against forces that had come through the Khyber Pass, Rajputs usually had a massive numerical advantage. Prithviraj’s troops outnumbered Ghuri’s at the second battle of Tarain by perhaps three to one. At Khanua, Rana Sanga commanded at least four soldiers for every one available to Babur. Unlike Sanga’s forces, though, Babur’s were hardy veterans. After defeating Ibrahim Lodi at Panipat, the founder of the Mughal dynasty had the option of using the generals he inherited from the Delhi Sultan, but preferred to stick with soldiers he trusted. He knew numbers are meaningless except when acting on a coherent strategy under a unified command. Rajput troops rarely answered to one leader, because each member of the confederacy would have his own prestige and ego to uphold. Caste considerations made meritocracy impossible. The enemy general might be a freed Abyssinian slave, but Rajput leadership was decided by clan membership.

Absent meritocratic promotion, an established chain of command, a good communication system, and a contingency plan, Rajput forces were regularly taken apart by the opposition’s mobile cavalry. Occasionally, as with the composite bows and light armour of Ghuri’s horsemen, or the matchlocks employed by Babur, technological advances played a role in the outcome.

Ossified tactics

What’s astonishing is that centuries of being out-thought and out-manoeuvred had no impact on the Rajput approach to war. Rana Pratap used precisely the same full frontal attack at Haldighati in 1576 that had failed so often before. Haldighati was a minor clash by the standards of Tarain and Khanua. Pratap was at the head of perhaps 3,000 men and faced about 5,000 Mughal troops. The encounter was far from the Hindu Rajput versus Muslim confrontation it is often made out to be. Rana Pratap had on his side a force of Bhil archers, as well as the assistance of Hakim Shah of the Sur clan, which had ruled North India before Akbar’s rise to power. Man Singh, a Rajput who had accepted Akbar’s suzerainty and adopted the Turko-Mongol battle plan led the Mughal troops. Though Pratap’s continued rebellion following his defeat at Haldighati was admirable in many ways, he was never anything more than an annoyance to the Mughal army. That he is now placed, in the minds of many Indians, on par with Akbar or on a higher plane says much about the twisted communal politics of the subcontinent.

There’s one other factor that is thought to have contributed substantially to Rajput defeats: the opium habit. Taking opium was established practice among Rajputs in any case, but they considerably upped the quantity they consumed when going into battle. Several ended up in no fit state to process any instruction beyond, “kill or be killed”. Opium rendered some soldiers incapable of coordinating complex manoeuvres. There’s an apt warning for school kids: don’t do drugs, or you’ll squander an empire.
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We are not dissing all Rajputs but completing the facts. Some of them fought while many preferred to stay kings and enjoy perks associated with it. In the long run, they only survived because Marathas rose up as a power and Rajput forces were used by Mughals to contain them. After Maharana Pratap they hardly offered any resistance and would have been completely crushed by armies of Islam, hadn't some Hindu resistance in form of Marathas came up from the south and western India.
 

punjab47

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Bornubus

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When Jat Raja of Bharatpur advised Marathas to at least left their Maratha women and children, maids to their custody before going to Battle against Abdali in panipat,marathas arrogantly rejected the suggestion which was a huge blunder as it was not the mettle of Maratha warfare,their success relied on gurrila warfare and light cavalry without the burden of women,maids living in camp.

After the battle the worst fear came into reality, Maratha women were raped and taken as sex slaves to Afghanistan (no concept of sati in Marathas), some of the lower cast musalman sweeper from pakistan still claims the Maratha ancestry,whose ancestors were taken as slaves and forcefully circumcised.

However some Maratha women were saved by Jats and Sikhs of Punjab under Akali Phula Singh.
 
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flamboyant

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So now the thread has become- proud Gujjars vs proud Rajputs!!

Btw, @flamboyant - do you also think your ancestors were blue eyed Caucasians i.e. Aryans?
Dude,you have missed the point completely.
While Gurjars,Jats,Ahirs(You find so many common gotras in these castes) constituted the 'Rajput' army and chieftains initially but, with time recruitment spread across to various other potential areas like hills,jungles and deserts.So in all,almost every cast of northern,cental and eastern India were there.
Whosoever was standing in the rank and file of these small-time Rajwada forces were baptised as Rajputs.Apart from this labors who were used to build palaces,forts etc were also assimilated into these police like forces of medieval India.Hypothetically speaking,if combined together this force would have been a force to reckon with but these forces were not meant to unite but to safeguard the interest of their respective principalities.
They never upgraded themselves according to the time as far as warfare tactics,training and weaponry was concerned.
They were highly addicted to opium and would be reckless in wars.
 

punjab47

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Dude,you have missed the point completely.
While Gurjars,Jats,Ahirs(You find so many common gotras in these castes) constituted the 'Rajput' army and chieftains initially but, with time recruitment spread across to various other potential areas like hills,jungles and deserts.So in all,almost every cast of northern,cental and eastern India were there.
Whosoever was standing in the rank and file of these small-time Rajwada forces were baptised as Rajputs.Apart from this labors who were used to build palaces,forts etc were also assimilated into these police like forces of medieval India.Hypothetically speaking,if combined together this force would have been a force to reckon with but these forces were not meant to unite but to safeguard the interest of their respective principalities.
They never upgraded themselves according to the time as far as warfare tactics,training and weaponry was concerned.
They were highly addicted to opium and would be reckless in wars.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_Shahi

Yes, yes. Saying such things will mean you get a place even lower than Shudra in the next life.
 

asingh10

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People are making light hearted jokes about "giving and pimping daughters" but the truth is Akbar threatened mass invasion, rape and pillage to these kings. It's the modern day equivalent of what ISIS is doing with Yazidi girls or what Waderas do abducting/demanding Hindu girls in Sindh by threatening the whole family or village. Jaipur was only a few days march from Delhi. Nothing to laugh or make fun of. Also, for every Jodha, there was also Hadi Rani, Rani Padmini and Rani Durgavati.

Anyway, lot of individuals in India get a narcissistic high from cheer leading their caste and viciously putting down their fellow country men. But none as committed to learn from their past faults and how to build a better future for India.
 

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