Rajputs in medieval age - battles and discussions

jackprince

Turning into a frog
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
4,970
Likes
16,902
Country flag
@Sakal Gharelu Ustad

The shit that is going in this thread is not discussion, but mud slinging.

The Rajputs were some times heroes and sometimes villains. Ok. But what took you so long to change the title?

Anyway, if you want to carry on this, this is your prerogative.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

Detests Jholawalas
Ambassador
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
7,114
Likes
7,762
@Sakal Gharelu Ustad

The shit that is going in this thread is not discussion, but mud slinging.

The Rajputs were some times heroes and sometimes villains. Ok. But what took you so long to change the title?

Anyway, if you want to carry on this, this is your prerogative.
Are you appalled because some people are overtly calling others baniya and how they suffer from diabetes? Or you have some instrument to measure mudslinging and this thread showed high reading on your mudsling measure? There are enough anti-muslim, anti-hindu, anti-NI, anti-SI, anti-Brahmin etc threads on DFI, I hardly saw you complain before. What is so special about this thread?
 

angeldude13

Lestat De Lioncourt
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
2,499
Likes
3,999
Country flag
@flamboyant We have nothing to prove to anybody.
As long as Bappa rawal,prithviraj chauhan,Maharana Pratap are alive in hearts of people we have got nothing to prove to anybody.
Some of our ancestors were allies of mughal and some of them were their arch enemies.Some of them forged the alliance by marrying their daughter into muslims and some of them fought till death.
I know we are hard to understand but this is what makes us Rajput.Our ancestors did everything to survive when all the north western provinces like punjab,sindh were overran by the muslims warlord. We are survivors,mate.
You can insult us all you want but it won't change the fact that some of our ancestors will always find place in history books.
Jai Rajputana
 

Bornubus

Chodi Bhakt & BJPig Hunter
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
7,494
Likes
17,198
DSC03440.jpg


........................................................................................................................................
 

Bornubus

Chodi Bhakt & BJPig Hunter
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
7,494
Likes
17,198
comparison between Maratha and Rajput warriors---by Elphinstone

Though the Marathas had never appeared in history as a nation,
they had as strongly marked a character as if they had always formed
a united commonwealth. Though more like to the lower orders in
Hindostan than to their southern neighbours in Kanaru and Telingana,
they could never for a moment be confounded with either. They are
small sturdy men, well made, though not handsome. They are all active,
laborious, hardy, and persevering. If they have none of the pride and
dignity of the Rajputs, they have none of their indolence or want of
worldly wisdom. A Rajput warrior, as long as he does not dishonour
his race, seems almost indifferent to the result of any contest he is
engaged in. A Maratha thinks of nothing but the result, and cares little
for the means, if he can attain his object. For this purpose he will strain
his wits, renounce his pleasures, and hazard his person ; but he has not
a conception of sacrificing his life, or even his interest, for a point of honour.
This difference of sentiment affects the outward appearance of the two
nations ; there is something noble in the carriage even of an ordinary
Rajput, and something vulgar in that of the most distinguished Maratha.!!!

The Rajput is the most worthy antagonist — the Maratha the most
formidable enemy ; for he will not fail in boldness and enterprise when
they are indispensable, and will always support them, or supply their
place, by stratagem, activity, and perseverance. All this applies chiefly
to the soldiery, to whom more bad qualities might fairly be ascribed.
The mere husbandmen are sober, frugal, and industrious, and, though they
have a dash of the national cunning, are neither turbulent nor insincere.

The chiefs, in those days, were men of families who had for generations
filled the old Hindu offices of heads of villages or functionaries of districts,
and had often been employed as partisans under the governments of
Ahmadnagar and Bijapur. They were all Sudras, of the same cast with
their people, though some tried to raise their consequence by claiming
an infusion of Rajput blood.
 

Dreamhunter

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Messages
149
Likes
154
Country flag
Mr SKU (sakal gharelu utpad),you shouldn't have changed the title of the thread.
Rajputs dont want to let people of this country know the reality and the whole malaise lies here.
Look at the disdain and callousness with which they have made fun of the baniyas or other castes!!
This is the age of information.One cant live on false pretenses anymore.Truth is already out there in the open.
It is absolute nonsense to compare Rajputs with Marathas,
Infact its an insult to Marathas if we do that.
Truth is bitter too and the kind of uneasiness and desperation (one can see in the posts of Rajput supporters) to close this thread tells all.
Irony is,they leave no chance to deride and make fun of other castes and clans.
Just have a look at the great wars in the history of India and you will not find a single Rajput fighting in any of these.
My heart goes for those Marathas,Sikhs,Gurkhas,South Indian warriors who fought relentlessly war after war for so many years without fear against Muslim invaders and later on against the British.And these were WARS and not battles.
And what were these Rajputs doing during these times.
A lot has already been said as to how they appeased Mughals,no need to elaborate on that.
Against the British also same thing happened but other way round
.Instead of Rajputs sending 'saugats' to British,it was the British who parked their arses in the backyards of these so called Rajputana principalities.
(Read treaty of subsidiary alliance).
Rajputana principalities were among the first ones to accept this humiliating treaty without putting up any resistance whatsoever.
The valour(of Rajputs) described in few of the above posts can be seen even to this day in our rural India.All you need is a Rajput bard to exaggerate it pompously and sing it like a canary/parrot.

Rajputs were the people recruited by the heads of Rajputana principalities to guard,look after palace and also act as a deterrant to other neighboring states' misadventure so that the head can peacefully eat ,drink and be merry.
Recruitment areas were the areas stricken with poverty where daily life is a struggle eg tribals living in deep jungles,landless labours,small time workers etc.
A safa(headgear),sword,liquor and new found status of a Durbar or Rajput (son of Raja) were motivation enough for this new recruit to be loyal to the principality.
It was same as present day multinationals who woo and motivate their workforce to compete against rival multinationals with new incentives and mottos.
It is the progeny of these recruits who are not willing to shed that covetous status even to this day(sons of kings).
Instead their insecurities make them reinforce it with pompous practices and routines.
Purity of so called 'blood' was never there which got diluted further.(Will be covered later).
When a Khilji or Tughlaq or a Mughal ordered for a few thousand foot soldiers.a few hundred horsemen or elephants for a campaign,the local rajwada would shudder in fear and would send a quickly gathered rag tag army labeled as Rajput army.(Who will come back after the campaign and take up menial jobs in the palace and around in exchange of their services)
There are instances recorded in historical documents where the delhi sultans have actually reprimanded these rajwadas for sending an army of semi dead foot soldiers and horses.

Mughal–Maratha Wars were fought between the Maratha Empire and the Mughal Empire from 1680 to 1707.

First Battle of Delhi or The Raid of Delhi took place on 28 March 1737 between Maratha Empire and the Mughals.

Anglo–Maratha Wars were three wars fought in the Indian sub-continent between Maratha Empire and the British East India Company.

The Anglo–Sikh wars were a series of 1840s conflicts between the British East India Trading Company and the Sikh Empire.

Anglo-Afghan War may refer to:

First Anglo-Afghan War (1839–1842)

Second Anglo-Afghan War (1878–1880)

Third Anglo-Afghan War (1919)

The Gorkha War (1814–1816), or the Anglo–Nepalese War, was fought between the Kingdom of Gorkha (present-day Nepal) and the British East India Company .

The Anglo–Mysore Wars were a series of four wars fought in India over the last three decades of the 18th century between the Kingdom of Mysore, and the British East India Company

The Third Battle of Panipat took place on 14 January 1761 at Panipat. The battle pitted the French-supplied artillery of the Marathas against the heavy cavalry of the Afghans led by Ahmad Shah Durrani, an ethnic Pashtun, also known as Ahmad Shah Abdali. The battle is considered one of the largest battles fought in the 18th century. Marathas were defeated with heavy casualties on both sides and retreat of Maratha army and civilians from Punjab to Delhi.
The Rajputs are mostly remembered today for being loyal servants of the Mughals and British and this is why
they have a bad image.
On the other hand the rulers of the greatest Dynasties in Indian history are celebrated for defeating foreign powers.
The Marathas are known for defeating the Mughals, the Vijayanagar rulers became famous for defeating the Turkic invaders, the Chola rulers gained fame after conquering huge parts of Southeast Asia and
the Gupta rulers liberated northwestern India from Scythian rule.
And this is the main difference between the greatest rulers in Indian history and the Rajputs.
 

jackprince

Turning into a frog
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
4,970
Likes
16,902
Country flag
Are you appalled because some people are overtly calling others baniya and how they suffer from diabetes? Or you have some instrument to measure mudslinging and this thread showed high reading on your mudsling measure? There are enough anti-muslim, anti-hindu, anti-NI, anti-SI, anti-Brahmin etc threads on DFI, I hardly saw you complain before. What is so special about this thread?
No, I am appalled how both sides of the so called debate is busy trying to humiliate each other with past sordid anecdotes.

Yes, you hardly saw me complain before. But, the levels of discussion have never been so degrading like what has been happening in last few instances. The level of threads have been falling for last few months. Day by day, debate is being replaced by mud slinging. We are not apes here like PDF.

I personally would like to have far more rigid moderation than what has been going on, for the sake of the dignity of the fora.
 

angeldude13

Lestat De Lioncourt
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
2,499
Likes
3,999
Country flag
No, I am appalled how both sides of the so called debate is busy trying to humiliate each other with past sordid anecdotes.

Yes, you hardly saw me complain before. But, the levels of discussion have never been so degrading like what has been happening in last few instances. The level of threads have been falling for last few months. Day by day, debate is being replaced by mud slinging. We are not apes here like PDF.

I personally would like to have far more rigid moderation than what has been going on, for the sake of the dignity of the fora.
Look at the post above you.If I want I can degrade their ancestors too because at some point everyone in India helped the invaders.But I don't feel like stooping down to their level.If insulting the sacrifices made by my ancestors make my fellow Indians feel good then let it be.
 

Screambowl

Ghanta Senior Member?
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
7,950
Likes
7,908
Country flag
When we talk about invaders why do we discuss Muslim invaders? Instead, British, Portuguese, Dutch and French are also in the same league.

I don't care how they behaved with Mughals, because they are invaders for me and I give a damn. But I do care how they behaved with Hindus of this land.

The Alexander took advantage of differences among Indian empires

The Mughals took advantage of Hindu empire clash

The british took advantage of Mughal vs Hindu clashes.


So it is better , not to clash any more. More dangerous than external threat it's the differences among ourselves.
 

punjab47

महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट
Banned
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
1,059
Likes
598
@flamboyant @Bornubus lol bro, yes it was all tribals who traced their history to back before mahabharat.

Say what you will, @Mad Indian all of you, there is no Bharat without BharatVanshis.
 

flamboyant

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
26
Likes
34
@flamboyant We have nothing to prove to anybody.
As long as Bappa rawal,prithviraj chauhan,Maharana Pratap are alive in hearts of people we have got nothing to prove to anybody.
Some of our ancestors were allies of mughal and some of them were their arch enemies.Some of them forged the alliance by marrying their daughter into muslims and some of them fought till death.
I know we are hard to understand but this is what makes us Rajput.Our ancestors did everything to survive when all the north western provinces like punjab,sindh were overran by the muslims warlord. We are survivors,mate.
You can insult us all you want but it won't change the fact that some of our ancestors will always find place in history books.
Jai Rajputana
Mate, its not about insulting or hurting the feelings of fellow Indians.Just wanted to put things in correct perspective so that contribution and bravery of other clans is not down played or eclipsed entirely.
Everyone in India has survived.Question is not that we survived but how we survived.

Sikhs fought a series of wars with British but never gave in.They got decimated but earned the respect of British.
So did the Gurkhas,Marathas and kingdoms of south India.
But the Rajputs definitely let everybody down by not putting up any kind of resistance instead helped the enemy in every way.
If they call themselves as Kshatriyas then their actions were all the more despicable.

As for Bappa Rawal and Prithviraj Chauhan both are mentioned as people of Gurjar stock/clan by very authentic historic documents.Which automatically makes Maharana Pratap a gurjar(Lineage of Bappa Rawal)

Irony is,when Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel forced these princely states to sign the treaty of accession,most of Rajas claimed their decent from Gurjaras(as Sardar Patel was a gurjar himself).
Point is, here also they tried to get out of the situation in a very unkshatriya like way.
I guess Rajputs are too conscious of their status,there seems complex of a kind as they try too hard to show themselves as warriors,which is not the case with other clans.There is no such pomp and show in other clans.
 

Bornubus

Chodi Bhakt & BJPig Hunter
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
7,494
Likes
17,198
When we talk about invaders why do we discuss Muslim invaders? Instead, British, Portuguese, Dutch and French are also in the same league.

I don't care how they behaved with Mughals, because they are invaders for me and I give a damn. But I do care how they behaved with Hindus of this land.

The Alexander took advantage of differences among Indian empires

The Mughals took advantage of Hindu empire clash

The british took advantage of Mughal vs Hindu clashes.


So it is better , not to clash any more. More dangerous than external threat it's the differences among ourselves.
There wasn't Indian empireS during Alexander invasion but only a single Nanda Empire based in Patliputra under DhanaAnand.

Present day Pak was outside its suzerainty and was ruled by small kingdoms,which Greeks called tribes,Purushuttam (porus) was a ruler of such small kingdom and so was Ambhi.
 

Bornubus

Chodi Bhakt & BJPig Hunter
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
7,494
Likes
17,198
Mate, its not about insulting or hurting the feelings of fellow Indians.Just wanted to put things in correct perspective so that contribution and bravery of other clans is not down played or eclipsed entirely.
Everyone in India has survived.Question is not that we survived but how we survived.

Sikhs fought a series of wars with British but never gave in.They got decimated but earned the respect of British.
So did the Gurkhas,Marathas and kingdoms of south India.
But the Rajputs definitely let everybody down by not putting up any kind of resistance instead helped the enemy in every way.
If they call themselves as Kshatriyas then their actions were all the more despicable.

As for Bappa Rawal and Prithviraj Chauhan both are mentioned as people of Gurjar stock/clan by very authentic historic documents.Which automatically makes Maharana Pratap a gurjar(Lineage of Bappa Rawal)

Irony is,when Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel forced these princely states to sign the treaty of accession,most of Rajas claimed their decent from Gurjaras(as Sardar Patel was a gurjar himself).
Point is, here also they tried to get out of the situation in a very unkshatriya like way.
I guess Rajputs are too conscious of their status,there seems complex of a kind as they try too hard to show themselves as warriors,which is not the case with other clans.There is no such pomp and show in other clans.
The first major Sikh Victory against Mughals was Battle of Chappar Chiri where Mughal Governor Wazir khan was killed and his decapitated head was impaled on a spear of Banda Singh Bahadur Minhas.

He was a Rajput.
 

Screambowl

Ghanta Senior Member?
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
7,950
Likes
7,908
Country flag
There wasn't Indian empireS during Alexander invasion but only a single Nanda Empire based in Patliputra under DhanaAnand.

Present day Pak was outside its suzerainty and was ruled by small kingdoms,which Greeks called tribes,Purushuttam (porus) was a ruler of such small kingdom and so was Ambhi.
There were, but again not in Unity. For this reason only Chanakya went to Dhana Nanda to ask him for the unification of Bharat.
 

angeldude13

Lestat De Lioncourt
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
2,499
Likes
3,999
Country flag
The first major Sikh Victory against Mughals was Battle of Chappar Chiri where Mughal Governor Wazir khan was killed and his decapitated head was impaled on a spear of Banda Singh Bahadur Minhas.

He was a Rajput.
This guy is telling me that he has an authentic source that proves that we are gujjar :lol:
Don't waste your time here.....
 

flamboyant

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
26
Likes
34
This guy is telling me that he has an authentic source that proves that we are gujjar :lol:
Don't waste your time here.....



The Gurjar is a great race of the world. Gurjars had been ruling India since historical times; their some families were called Rajputs in medieval period. Rajput, Maratha, Jat and Ahir are heirs of the Kshatriyas. They are not foreigners. There is no community being called Kshatriya except us all. How that Kshatriyan race can be eliminated in which Ram and Krishna were born.

All of us Rajput, Maratha, Jat and Ahirs are the stars whereas Gurjar is the Moon in the Kshatriyan sky. It is beyond human power to lessen the dignity of the Gurjars.
(Words By - Thakur Yashpal Singh Rajput, Ex-MP)

Go ask him.Anyway it was not about you.It was about the origin of these feudal heads of Rajputana principalities of 15th -16th century.
 

Bornubus

Chodi Bhakt & BJPig Hunter
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
7,494
Likes
17,198
The Gurjar is a great race of the world. Gurjars had been ruling India since historical times; their some families were called Rajputs in medieval period. Rajput, Maratha, Jat and Ahir are heirs of the Kshatriyas. They are not foreigners. There is no community being called Kshatriya except us all. How that Kshatriyan race can be eliminated in which Ram and Krishna were born.

All of us Rajput, Maratha, Jat and Ahirs are the stars whereas Gurjar is the Moon in the Kshatriyan sky. It is beyond human power to lessen the dignity of the Gurjars.
(Words By - Thakur Yashpal Singh Rajput, Ex-MP)

Go ask him.Anyway it was not about you.It was about the origin of these feudal heads of Rajputana principalities of 15th -16th century.
Where is it says that Rajputs are gujjars ?

And Sardar Patel was a Kurmi not Gujjar,don't spread misinformation here.
 
Last edited:

flamboyant

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
26
Likes
34
Where is it says that Rajputs are gujjars ?

And i never heard of this Great historian.
"Gurjars had been ruling India since historical times; their some families were called Rajputs in medieval period".

All Rajputs are not Gurjars,but most of the chieftains were of Gurjar origin(especially Bappa Rawal and Prithviraj Chauhan).These chieftains who during course of centuries subdivided into smaller principalities,Thikanas and Jagirs(especially in Rajputana).
A small force of armed men and horse riders that they kept to protect themselves were known as Rajputs.Sometimes a commander will defect with other soldiers and form his own 'riyasat' some faraway place and declare himself as 'raja' of that particular tract of land.This practice became rampant in those times where there was no phone,email,satellite images or even maps.
Besides,nobody cared as to what was happening in that 'dustbowl' (which Rajputana actually was) during those times.
You can find this very practice in present day business empires where a ceo works for a few years and then starts his own venture or for that matter any employee can do that and start his own venture by hiring a few people.And thus mushrooms many other companies with every founder calling himself as 'business tycoon'.
These 'Rajas' were only scared of every other 'Raja' of this dustbowl.
Exercises of plotting,planning,one upmanship,jealousies,deceit,suspicion,incompetence,sycophancy became the order of the day.
So 'Rajputs' were never meant to fight wars with a Sultanat ,but were there just to act as a deterrent to the neighboring 'Rajas\Riyasats'. Occasionally they would participate in small skirmishes that may trigger if rival doen't act with tact.
The question of unity amongst Rajput doesn't arise for they were not from same stock (but were different armies).
With time evolved themselves into different stocks of 'Rajputs' and became a regular/favourite recruiting grounds for their respective principalities.
In came the British and rest is history.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top