Rafale no match for China's MMRCA

[sukhish]

Armand is spot on. west has considerable know how unlike china.

 

[J20!]

That video exemplifies the lack of A2G capability of the PLAAF. The bomb drop was recorded from the ground with the J-10 dropping at very low level flight. The altitude range of their LGBs is measured in thousands of feet rather than tens of thousands for Western LGBs. You get that close to the ground and you are subject to getting shot down by something as rudimentary as MANPADS.

The bombs' release was filmed from the ground Armand, necesitating the low altitude. If you havent noticed, that's a demonstration for the benefit of CCTV, not a drill.

 

[J20!]

Armand is spot on. west has considerable know how unlike china.

If Armand is spot on saying things like the J11B has an RCS of 25m^2.
or that China has no aviation materials industry despite the fact that it turns out hundreds of millitary and civilian airframes a year,
or that the j20's RCS is the same as the F16's, despite stealth shaping superior to the F35 (Carlo Kopps words not mine)
or that the j10 flies with old missiles and dumb bombs, despite a plethora of PGM
then there's nothing more I can say to enhance this discussion. It seems verifiable facts, and the opinions of world renown experts pale in the presence of Armand's made up stories on this forum.

 

[Ray]

Armand,

J20 has spoken.

What have you to say?

 

[Ray]

The bombs' release was filmed from the ground Armand, necesitating the low altitude. If you havent noticed, that's a demonstration for the benefit of CCTV, not a drill.

However, even if it were filmed from the ground, the bomb release could have been done at a much higher altitude and duly photographed and the result on the ground could be also filmed.

To indicate authenticity, it could have a timer recording alongside on the film!

 

[p2prada]

p2prada, what open source are you talking about? How exactly ahead of PLAAF is IAF?

You are overestimating the ability of your arsenal which you built back in the 1990s, yes they made a strong IAF then, that is why I admitted IAF had advantage. But now as China is gaining the capablity of building indigenous planes, India is simply losing it.

Let me give you a hint, the best planes in IAF are still Russia-built, but now China stops importing Russian toys. It is not that Russia refuses to deal with China, instead it is China is getting disenchanted. Buying Russian planes is always an available option, but PLAAF shows no sign of going for that, meaning they believe Russian planes are not worth it.

Chinese defence industry is far ahead of their Indian counterpart, just look at the inventory of both sides, 90% of Indian weapons are imported, whereas 90% of Chinese weapons are domestically manufactured. The reason we are stoping buying Russian airfighters and refused a proposal by Russians to joint-develop a 5G plane is because we are capable of building our own.

In my opinion, Rafale or Typhoon , it is just the last straw for India, which will not change the fate of IAF being left behind in the long turn. As long as India is relying on foreign weapons, China has an upper-hand in this race.

Let me reiterated what has been said again and again by Chinese policy-makers, military modernization is not something you can buy with money.

Military modernization is something you buy with money. Your policy makers are feeding BS to your population. Look at Pakistan today. They cannot buy anything worth talking about and also look at their current situation. Kashmir was as bad or worse and we handled it quite well in the same duration of time. In our condition the terrorists had a safe haven in Pak. The Taliban has no such safe haven, they are fighting the Pak Army on Pak's home ground and the US in Afghanistan and still winning. All this because they are broke.

Without money there is no military, you may as well use bows and arrows. So, stop listening to your policy makers with what they feed to your population. Get outside, forums are a great place to be, and see for yourself. See how UK is at the brink simply because they lost one lousy deal. European militaries have completely lost all the glory of their former selves because of lack of money.

Without engines and electronics your defence industry is at the same state ours is in. Your radar system is not even worth inducting in the IAF, maybe only as MLU for old aircraft. The KLJ-10 today is at a similar level as the RDY-2 in 1997. Your engines are all imported from Russia and everybody knows the AL-31F series are all junk by today's standards. Everybody is moving up the chain. China is not.

The best planes built in Russia are easily some of the best aircraft available. You are still trying to achieve MKIs standards, something Russia did in 1996. MKI is obsolete if you compare the current MRCA fighters and the current MRCA fighters are obsolete compared to the Super MKI. I have spoken to both American and British airmen. Both rated the Flanker to be at par or higher than their own fighters, and this was when we discussed the Su-35, not MKI.

As long as India imports, overwhelming technological superiority is guaranteed. China does not have this advantage. Don't you see the difference? India has an economy that is 4 times smaller than China, but we are able to maintain a technological lead over China and our numbers are pretty good too.

In 10 years you may have your fifth gen flying, at the same time we will have one too. We aren't discussing the differences between our military industrial complexes, we are discussing direct difference in technology between our two armed forces. Even in that case, you built your first SSBN in the 80s, but even today none of the SSBNs have left Chinese shores. At the same time, our very first SSBN is going out for deterrence patrol by this year end.

Imports and foreign JVs are helping us maintain a technological superiority as well as a minimum numerical parity against an economy much larger that our own.

The reason you are no longer buying Russian aircraft is because you have everything they already have. It is the same reason why the Su-35 was rejected by IAF too. We already have what they have. There is really no reason in buying something so similar. It's like forcing all the Hornet clients to buy Super Hornets, nobody will do it.

 

[p2prada]

*rolls eyes* This is a forum, if you need info, ask and those who has the info will assist, no need for guessing. Even the J10A is equiped for PRECISION A2G strikes. It can carry a variety of PGM including the LT2 laser guided series pictured here

Gee. The Typhoon can drop PGMs as well, but on this forum we consider Typhoon's A2G capability as non existent.

One more thing, the best A2G platform in PLAAF and PLANAF inventories would be between the H6 strategic bomber and the JH7 flying leopard, which both carry a larger payload than the SuMKK or any Su27 variant for that matter.

Best of luck using bombers against a squadron of fighters. Come on, you won't be using them unless you have air superiority or even air denial. Experts always say the PLAAF is going to have to commit to air denial against IAF and not contest for air superiority. Some say the PLA don't care how many PLAAF fighters are lost as long as IAF is not allowed to bomb ground forces. That's your basic strategy.

 

[shashi]

If Typhoon was fitted with a toilet at the boot , the results of the MRCA competition would have been different ! More suitable for indian "hygiene standards. " !

 

[Armand2REP]

Armand,

J20 has spoken.

What have you to say?

http://defenceforumindia.com/china/31384-chinese-general-admits-25-30-years-behind-france.html

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Is this a photoshop? How can the aircraft in the background be bigger than the aircraft in the foreground? I am scared by this logic, the background j-20 looks huge..!!

J10B surface composites:

 

[Folk hero]

Is this a photoshop? How can the aircraft in the background be bigger than the aircraft in the foreground? I am scared by this logic, the background j-20 looks huge..!!

i think not many people know Chinese invented a device that can enlarge fighter plains just kidding.

but nice photo of elder and younger brothers i'am to brotherly love in Chinese airbase even by fighters jets great .

 

[Godless-Kafir]

i think not many people know this Chinese invented a device that can enlarge fighter plains just kidding.

but nice photo of elder and younger brothers i'am to brotherly love in Chinese airbase even by fighters jets great .

Even if they get everything right they still photoshop that.! I guess even if a chinese guy has a 12inch tool he will photoshop it to look like its 15inches!!

Chinese main R&D is first on photoshop and next on real products.

Wonder if all those Chinese aircrafts flying are real or chopped.

Y U China Photoshop all??

 

[J20!]

Is this a photoshop? How can the aircraft in the background be bigger than the aircraft in the foreground? I am scared by this logic, the background j-20 looks huge..!!

Now you're just being silly. Those are two photos with one on top of the other, for illustrative purposes. i'd roll my eyes at your photoshop comment, but I'm just too exhasperated to even bother.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Bullshit..its a merged photoshop! Fake as usual...

 

[J20!]

Bullshit..its a merged photoshop! Fake as usual...

*shaking head* What exactly would be the point of said photoshop?

Those two photos are a comparison of the first J10B prototype with one of the latest to pick out differences.
Maybe this is a "fake photoshop" pic to you as well:

Do the 2nd and 4th pics look familiar to you? I'd say dont be an idiot, but it seems I'm too late.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

bull shit the 3rd pic was a bad photo shop then they replaced a very low flying J-10 with another mess by removing the flying j-10 and merging the 2nd with the 3rd. There seems to be more photo shop R&D going on than real R&D.

Anyway i dont deny j-10 flies it probably has a chinese table fan inside for a engine. The fact that it flies does not mean a thing, its just extremely poor technology.

 

[JayATL]

I wonder sometimes how the Chinese public believes that China which is not matured aircraft manufacturer, just working on having it own engines, is some how making aircrafts , weapons systems, EW packages more advance than Russians and Americans who have been at it for decades... it baffles me how , a country that is yet to reach the moon ( they had an active program to do so for an decade now).says its aircraft technology is more advanced than Russia and America.

Its like when I hear some Indians claim their standard of living is better that fully developed countries.

 

[KS]

Its like when I hear some Indians claim their standard of living is better that fully developed countries.

We may not live better than fully developed countries but we arre certainly more at peace with what we have than those in fully developed countries who may strut around in Chanel boots and showcase a Hermes Birkin but have a void inside.

 

[asianobserve]

We may not live better than fully developed countries but we arre certainly more at peace with what we have than those in fully developed countries who may strut around in Chanel boots and showcase a Hermes Birkin but have a void inside.

Don't over generalise. Besides, people around the World regardless of nationality are always intermittently happy and sad at some points in their lives. This aspect of living cannot be objectively quantified. What can be quantified is their per capita income...

 

[JayATL]

We may not live better than fully developed countries but we arre certainly more at peace with what we have than those in fully developed countries who may strut around in Chanel boots and showcase a Hermes Birkin but have a void inside.

You mean to say the more sucessful you get the less at peace you are with yourself?