OBOR News & Developments

[Razor]

Yup, and no one is even talking about it in terms of a de facto US sanction against India. They are sugarcoating it as 'trade policy' but in reality it is a strategic sanction. Indian companies have had to fire around 10k employees each. It has wreaked havoc in the domestic IT industry. In one sudden move there are 30k jobless people in Bangalore. If you make a facebook page for jobless engineers, you will get 30k likes instantly.

But Trump said he is pro-india. And he said he would be tough on china and call it a currency manipulator.
You mean trump lied....

 

[Razor]

Why don't India make a u turn and join sco or CPEC? India has little to no leverage against big players and no real allies left.


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CPEC and SCO are part of OBOR etc.
And it wouldn't be a U-turn more like the "poleece" pulling you over.

 

[Razor]

People were saying that India was against silk road and blah blah but a week or so back I saw an ad for the effing "Silk Road" on one of the Bus stands in the outskirts of Chennai. The ad was in English and Mandarin.

 

[Dovah]

Yup, and no one is even talking about it in terms of a de facto US sanction against India. They are sugarcoating it as 'trade policy' but in reality it is a strategic sanction. Indian companies have had to fire around 10k employees each. It has wreaked havoc in the domestic IT industry. In one sudden move there are 30k jobless people in Bangalore. If you make a facebook page for jobless engineers, you will get 30k likes instantly.

We are fucked. We had 20 years to build a Silicon Valley, what we managed in those two decades was a Silicon Valley's retarded cousin that does the work the people in Palo Alto or San Jose do not want to do.
In spite of all the chest thumping, when it comes to geopolitics India has no leverage anywhere.

We could have placed ourselves strategically in the last two decades of peace so that when the tides shifted again, as they are shifting now, we would have been in a favorable position. We are going back to the 80s with unemployment, infighting and overall bad times.

 

[Dovah]

CPEC and SCO are part of OBOR etc.
And it wouldn't be a U-turn more like the "poleece" pulling you over.

Not in Tamil? Where are the protests?

 

[Razor]

Not in Tamil? Where are the protests?

hehe... Protests are onlee for hindi bros... It's a love-hate relationship.

But seriously those days are kinda over. Unless the central govt. does something stupid wrt language (imposition) all will be fine.

Now coming to the topic. The ad had some words in big (don't remember words exactly) but something about China awesome blah blah.
At first I thought it was an ad for China tourism (putting it in eng would make sense) but in the corner in small was the words "Silk Road" in Eng and Mnd.
Sneaky.

 

[Razor]

We are fucked. We had 20 years to build a Silicon Valley, what we managed in those two decades was a Silicon Valley's retarded cousin that does the work the people in Palo Alto or San Jose do not want to do.
In spite of all the chest thumping, when it comes to geopolitics India has no leverage anywhere.

What exactly we mean by geopolitics here above? Relating to which particular instance/manifestation of it?

 

[PSYOP]

Pakistan and China experts and economists say that the inventiveness makes sense and that it will hasten as the U.S. turns more inward-looking under Trump. “It is unsuccessful that many U.S. diplomats and members of the previous administration worked for nearly a decade to push toward the TPP and now it is torn apart,”, but trump’s management did it.

It is very likely and understandable that China will try to fill those gaps with this initiative, and that is very logical — it’s something the U.S. will later deeply regret if it didn't joined, but it joined later. Now, with the US joined, China can collaborate with countries in its neighborhood, Europe, Latin America and Africa in a way that is in the long-term interest of China and the global economy:bounce:

 

[Dovah]

What exactly we mean by geopolitics here above? Relating to which particular instance/manifestation of it?

Our weakening position has impacted some aspects:

1. Economy: Our economy is slowing, it will slow down further now that our IT sector has taken a hit. No other industry has picked up. Our domestic consumption remains poor and even then our swadeshi products have to compete with the Chinese.

2. Science: On the tech front, we have very little R&D to speak of. For 1 billion people, there are few good Universities and even there most of the talent relocates because of lack of funding, forget about attracting the best talent from around the world.

3. Defense: Our equipment is still mostly imported. Our troops are under equipped. Pakis are getting bolder, our neighbors are more or less in Chinese pocket. There is not a single country we can count on to ally with us if we went to war right now.

 

[Adioz]

Our weakening position has impacted some aspects:

1. Economy: Our economy is slowing, it will slow down further now that our IT sector has taken a hit. No other industry has picked up. Our domestic consumption remains poor and even then our swadeshi products have to compete with the Chinese.

2. Science: On the tech front, we have very little R&D to speak of. For 1 billion people, there are few good Universities and even there most of the talent relocates because of lack of funding, forget about attracting the best talent from around the world.

3. Defense: Our equipment is still mostly imported. Our troops are under equipped. Pakis are getting bolder, our neighbors are more or less in Chinese pocket. There is not a single country we can count on to ally with us if we went to war right now.

Its funny how we have been confident of a brilliant future ahead for us as our economy is picking up the pace and Pakistan is staring at isolation. How Trump is backed by a Hindu-Republican coalition, how Nikki Haley is UN ambassador. How Modi has transformed the economy. How so many indigenous weapons programs have suddenly started bearing results, and how more are in the pipeline.

And then Trump makes one stupid decision, and we loose all our confidence and start talking as if we are fcuked.

Calm down. We are in a bad spot. We will get through it.

 

[Kay]

Our weakening position has impacted some aspects:

1. Economy: Our economy is slowing, it will slow down further now that our IT sector has taken a hit. No other industry has picked up. Our domestic consumption remains poor and even then our swadeshi products have to compete with the Chinese.

2. Science: On the tech front, we have very little R&D to speak of. For 1 billion people, there are few good Universities and even there most of the talent relocates because of lack of funding, forget about attracting the best talent from around the world.

3. Defense: Our equipment is still mostly imported. Our troops are under equipped. Pakis are getting bolder, our neighbors are more or less in Chinese pocket. There is not a single country we can count on to ally with us if we went to war right now.

There are always silver linings in every situation. We are increasingly living in a globalized world where everyone's interests are intertwined. This applies to both friends and enemies. The only thing matters is preserving and furthering our interests.

1. The Silk Road (OBOR) will not replace sea routes. Sea based cargo movement is always cheaper. Land routes are better for movement of people. But given the instability of the region, it will take a long time to be successful. But it will be helpful in stabilizing the region and that is not a bad thing.
2. Sooner or later India will join the Silk Road - in the future there will be rail connection between Europe and China. India has to join or be left out. We can have alternative routes through China and Pakistan to make sure no one gains absolute leverage.
3. Pakistan as a vassal state of China is not a bad thing. This means that we have to deal only with China. Also, it ensures that economy becomes the centerpiece of negotiations and religion and emotive issues will take a backseat. China will have its hands full roping in North Korea and Pakistan.
4. Our dealing with China will be same as how China deals with US (frenemies and rivals). Since China is the bigger economy and power among us, they have more at stake in any potential deals. We will coerce them to give little trade advantages gradually as they are doing with US. In case we don't get advantages, we will provoke militarily and play spoilt sport until they relent.

 

[Kay]

Except for clamping down on H1B visas which has cost us thousands of jobs. Frankly, in the last 10 years India has failed to grow to its potential is now nothing more than a minor player in geopolitics. Tough days ahead.

India's position geopolitically was over-hyped by previous US administrations so as to influence us to be part of anti-China block. China is definitely not our friend. But we should be fine tuning our position and policies based on our need only- not outside pressure - or we will end up like Pakistan.
Trump being Trump has asked what value India is specifically bringing to the "special" relationship between India and US - which to be honest, is not much. We need not compensate for it by being a US vassal.

 

[Kay]

India' strengths are its market and population. We should deal with everyone based on that alone and not become a geopolitical chess-piece.
We should maintain our influence in our neighborhood in South Asia except Pakistan and look to increase that in South-East Asia and we should definitely sell weapons to Hanoi.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

What is the advantage of India joining OBOR?If any?

 

[Dovah]

What is the advantage of India joining OBOR?If any?

Not much. However, if more parties become invested in OBOR and China continues building in Gilgit-Baltistan, we set to loose leverage against Pakis in PoK on an international stage.

 

[Dovah]

@Dovah saar pliss to delete the now redudant post above ^^.

Done saar.

 

[Filtercoffee]

I wonder what the vets from nam have to say about the pro - commie aproach. Beyond the inclusion I want Gilgit - Baltistan to be with an ancient culture. Been there done everything. And for the exchange programme we can do it at the exact border of Aksai - Chin completely inclusive from our end ofcourse.

 

[Adioz]

Umm... no.

We have been in a bad spot for a while now. The H1B ban would not have hit us this hard if for two decades instead of wallowing in mediocrity we would have cultivated an internal market or even an infrastructure to sustain the tech industry. This ban, and the fact that it has impacted us at this level is an indictment of our failure to innovate and change with the times.

Indian startups are a joke, watered down copies of their western counterparts with no innovation.

In economics, there is a concept of leapfrogging. For example, China used Manufacturing to leapfrog their economy in the last 4-5 decades. Tech was supposed to be our ticket for that.

Nobody expected 2.5 years of this government to change anything, however, nobody expected the world to change this much either. The fact of the matter is we have been caught unprepared. So unless GST does end up bringing in investments that are being projected, we are staring at increasing unemployment. We do not have enough jobs to absorb our workforce and this is a bad situation to be in.

And that Nicky Haley and Republican-Hindu bhai-bhai business is irrelevant. Our economy should not be dependent on the whims of the U.S president.

Our defense projects are not bearing results at the rate they should be. We are still importing more than ever. The proof of the pie is in the eating. And apart from our navy not many of homemade weapon systems are being inducted.



It was not a stupid decision. From the American perspective it was perfectly valid. Tell me, what value do our outsourcing companies bring to US?
Fair enough, they do provide low cost labor to American businesses but are they indispensable? No. Will American businesses start relocating from US if their H1B supply is messed with? No. Is there another country with the infrastructure that can support their businesses? No. Is there any market that replace American one if Trump threatens to block them out like he did to the car manufacturers? No.



Of course we will get through it. However, we would not be in as good a shape as we had projected a decade back. The H1B and the OBOR issue is a symptom not the cause.

We are in a bad situation. We have made bad decisions. And that does not mean its all over. We made plenty of bad decisions before too, like the choice of going with a predominantly planned economy. We missed the bus to prosperity when we failed to attract investment where China succeeded.
We have also made plenty of good choices and been very successful. Yes our IT sector model was unsustainable, but the IT industry will not disappear for wont of exports. They will adapt to newer markets and the domestic market. Consider the US export story as a stepping stone without which stuff like Aadhar would not have been successful. As far as the quality of our startups are concerned, sure they are not very innovative. And we invest very little in R&D. But that is partly due to an archaic education approach and partly due to our lack of risk taking ability when it comes to R&D. The major reason however is our position on the economic development ladder. We are still a low income economy. And you are comparing our startups with those of western economies which are well-developed and are knowledge-based and have a well-entrenched ecosystem of breeding startups. No wonder we seem incompetent.

We have achieved a lot. But the problem is our inability to recognize the problem. We are a society that loves to label people. And when something goes wrong, instead of analysing the root cause of the problem systematically, we tend to apportion blame. We want heads to roll if something goes wrong. And after the heads have rolled, we become content as if we have eliminated the problem. This social change is essential in building up of our economy. We need to stop celebrating every little achievement. We need to stop daydreaming. The challenges we face are formidable, and so we need to be formidable people in order to overcome these challenges. That is how great powers are made. Each one of these countries have excelled despite innumerable problems. We can either follow in their footsteps, or we can wallow in guilt over the gulf in our power and those of our adversaries, and we can collapse.

 

[raja696]

You fear obor hurts Indian interests in pok and cant do anything. Then just attack posts of pakis and make it war like situation. Then occupy few posts of pakis. Tell them its disputed territory for them and belongs to India. Let be a little noise before obor meeting arrangements.

This send a message to usa en other nations that its important to negotiate with India for the successes of obor. Hence bring chins on to the table with India on cpec. Then India should just tell china see , china shouldn't involve in a war to back pakis, if India take over GB completely.

In such a case we will ensure ur trade root is safe else we will take over everything.

So stop being peace lovers and make some noise at pok posts. Let there be international noise to recognise India assertiveness that legitimise how failed dreame is chinese obor initiative .

 

[roma]

@Adioz @Ramdasrathsuryavanshi @Dovah @mendosa
@patriotic bhartiya @Razor @PSYOP @Kay @AmoghaVarsha @lcafanboy @Mikesingh
@Cutting Edge 2 @LETHALFORCE @hit&run @Krusty

sorry about a wee bit of self praise which i hopw will ot remain self praise

I am the only person to suggest the following so far
I ve seen all your posts about how we cant trust usa and how pak is not gonna give their hatred fro india and while all that is never untrue , it doesnt solve the problem
even my friend suggested joining cpec

but heres my contribution and i know people may find fault with it because of my claims of innovativeness

some say we should talk to packland and inform them the truth what china is about to do to them ...i agree pak is blinded by hatred for india - so their view of reason is blinded

I SAY WE SHOULD talk to ISRAEL !!!

convince them that china-pakistan involvement in the arab sea is bad news for israel especially for the greater israel project
If you know that israel is not at all satisfied with the present territories and wants to expand basically to the borders of the euphrates , to the nile and southwards to about one third of the saudi peninsula

then what we have to do is ot convince pak but to convince the eretz israelis
THEY ! WILL KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
THEY WILL AT THE VERY LEAST LISTEN TO US

IF MODE DOESNT DO SOMETHING ON THESE LINES WHEN he goes to israel soon , then he would have WASTED A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY !!!!!

TALK TO THE ERETZ ISRAELIS !!!!!