Liaoning (Varyag) - Chinese Aircraft Carrier

[badguy2000]

=====================================================

I have two questions:

1: in the American pic where the Deck crew in yellow in guiding the pilot, they have two crew member, is that as per some work flow to have two crew members flag the aircraft as fail safe or is that just a crew assisting his team member in free time. Now that i think it must be a fails safe mechanism but please feel free to correct me..

2: We know the Americans will not train the Chinese for this and I cannot think of a country that has expertise in AC who would train them. So from where did they get this knowledge, please don't tell me they reversed engineered this is through videos short on American carrier...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

well,there are surely some way to learn it,if you have enough money ,human resource ,industry base and time....


fortunately, china has all of them

 

[Just Me]

Re: INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

Hey did any of you guys check the landing on Chinese AC, the plane stop almost near the edge of the landing strip even after the hook grabbed the first Arresting Cable.
If what i saw was correct and if that cables snaps at the very last moment, i don't think the aircraft will have much momentum to take off... but who knows i'am no expert..


[video=youtube_share;0lU7BfS76NE]http://youtu.be/0lU7BfS76NE[/video]

 

[sayareakd]

1.well, landing one jet on AC is much harder than landing a WWII old plane on AC,because jets are much more heavier and faster.

2.it is a meaning step..

still avionics and navigational equipment in WW2 and now has come of ages, if you guys cant do it in all these years it is your fault only. Already one guy is dead, imagine the pressure on the AC crew, then someone is bound to make mistake. With all things going on it appears that China is getting ready for WW3. We will sit back, relax and watch the show.

 

[J20!]

Interior shots of the hangar. The pictures show the forward portion of the hangar, and in one of the pictures the door is visible.

 

[J20!]

Land based J15 operations:

 

[J20!]

Report on the last seven days of Yang Liu onboard the carrier


crew pay homage

 

[J20!]

Re: INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

Hey did any of you guys check the landing on Chinese AC, the plane stop almost near the edge of the landing strip even after the hook grabbed the first Arresting Cable.
If what i saw was correct and if that cables snaps at the very last moment, i don't think the aircraft will have much momentum to take off... but who knows i'am no expert..

The cable snapping is a danger on any arrested landing configuration carrier, from which no aircraft can recover. That's why the angled deck is such an advantage, an aircraft ditching into the sea will not smash into the moving hull...


Talk about fast reflexes, he jumped it not once but twice

 

[cinoti]

Re: INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

The cable snapping is a danger on any arrested landing configuration carrier, from which no aircraft can recover. That's why the angled deck is such an advantage, an aircraft ditching into the sea will not smash into the moving hull...


Talk about fast reflexes, he jumped it not once but twice

This guy is super agile, if not for his quick response, he would be on his artificial limbs now.

 

[Just Me]

Re: INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

The cable snapping is a danger on any arrested landing configuration carrier, from which no aircraft can recover. That's why the angled deck is such an advantage, an aircraft ditching into the sea will not smash into the moving hull...


Talk about fast reflexes, he jumped it not once but twice

===============================
Never knew that...:thumb:

What supprised me was that the aircrft got hooked on the very first cable on a a longer deck and still went so close to the edge, Considring that this is quite a large aircraft i would have expected it to stop a bit earlier...

 

[shiphone]

actully the training for the first batch of PLA Navy carrier-borne aircraft pilots has been ongoing for years..the taking off and landing simulation facility in one Navy land airbase was finished in 2010...source: DSWC

Landing Area(there is another one in the south end of the runway)

Ski Jump Taking off Area( this is one of the two such ski jump decks)

I'm Landing.....

-------------------------------------
some pix in earlier post shows the finished Hangar...GE shows us the status under construction.

 

[shiphone]

There are procedures to be followed. China is definitely not India. You don't have carrier experience.

Also, I did agree with your date. Didn't I tell you I read somewhere that the J-15 will be inducted in 2016? It fits right in with your 2015-2017. Does it not?

But by the time you have your aircraft achieve FOC and raise the first regiment, it will be 2020, maybe even more.

I am pretty sure you will agree to this now.

I just made some points in J20 thread...I would like to add something more here and I thought this was better place to go on...

the timeline of 'CV16 Project' has been decided years ago the it was public in our media...CV16 was commissioned in 2012. in 5 years(which means by 2017) of this first node time , the whole CVBG should get the full combat ability. and the J15 regiment would achieve the FOC before this node time(2017). the first J15 unit has been raised called as "shipboard aircraft training base XXX regement'...and as I said in J20 thread...the second batch (LSP) of J15 have been under manufacture for months.and the test flight went on for quite a while.

if you have any doubt about the Chinese Aviation Industry and PLA's Executive Ability of the plans...I would list the following fresh example for reference.

J20 project: the node time of maiden flight used to be By the end of 2010. just 11 days late.
Y20 prject: the node time of maiden flight used to be By the end of the third quarter of year 2012 , but it had a 4 months delay.

You didn't get the point. You are flight testing your J-15 and J-20 now. So, my point is if you have the J-20 flying, why do you need J-11B which is in production. You were the one who claimed, that your J-15 is flying now, so why would you need Su-33. Do you get the point now?

J-15 and J-20 seem to have similar flight timelines. J-11B is in production and the Su-33 can also be put into production fairly quickly. So you were trying to discredit production aircraft in favor of development aircraft. This was my point.

unlike IN ,PLAN always has the Land based fighter units since the first day of establishment in 1950s...some units got quite a few Shot down records in the Homeland air defense between 1950s and 1970S along with the PLAAF...
so far PLANAF has: 1 J11B ,1 J10A ,1 Su30MKK, 2 J8 H/F ,1 J7B/EH regiments ...an about 180 Shore Based Fighters fleet...and as I know, the last batch of J11B will go to PLANAF to relace the last J7 regiment.this process has begun.
and on the other hand. the shipboard aircraft units actually are brand new units raised already...

J20 is the AirForct project,J15 is navy's although the timelines look similar...and I'm hesitating to say this: the 4th Generarion(5th Gen in your standard) Shipboard Fighter Project has started since 2007 along with the Project J20...we might be able to see in this year...don't be surprise when you see it coming from another R&D team ...Project310/AMF/J21 is some kind of disrupter,let's wait and see how far this project could go

the J15 is a interim measures indeed

That's the point. Don't kid yourself. Your J-15 is still far from fighting a war. A few touch and go flights don't mean anything.

the J-15 share the same tech with J11B project...I don't think there is too much worry about its fighting abilities...the landing ability on the sea is the KEY.

Su-27K is the Russian military version of the Su-33. Su-33 is the export name. You said the Su-33 isn't advanced, I pointed out the Russians can upgrade it for export. After all PLAN did negotiate for it.

I'm afraid RN use the Su33 designation as well...BTW ,what we had in hand is a T-10K. the prototype of Su33(Su27K) ...and it might be PT03


about topic like A VS B ,I used to choose keep slient...and it's just some kind of waist of time. but I would add some info about J15
1.the WS10H engine would supply 12.5 tons thrust and 12.8 tons for Take Off.
2.J15 might be the only fighter use the PESA radar in China (some varient of the one tested on one of the J10B Prototype)...
3.other avionics would be very similar to J11B.

You don't get it. PLAN failed at buying the Su-33s. It wasn't PLAN who rejected the Su-33s, it was the Russians who canceled the deal.

we got the T10K-03 in around 2001 ,and the Poject J15 began then after...such russian claimed deal never happened...

 

[p2prada]

J20 is the AirForct project,J15 is navy's although the timelines look similar...and I'm hesitating to say this: the 4th Generarion(5th Gen in your standard) Shipboard Fighter Project has started since 2007 along with the Project J20...we might be able to see in this year...don't be surprise when you see it coming from another R&D team ...Project310/AMF/J21 is some kind of disrupter,let's wait and see how far this project could go

I know and I am looking forward to a new 5th gen project from China, primarily for PLAN. I think we understood a long time ago that the J-21 was meant for export and not for operational service in PLA. At least not what was shown to us.

I am pretty sure that if India an afford 2x 5th gen projects simultaneously while inducting three 4/4.5th gen aircraft at the same time, China could do better.

Obviously a SAC project.

The Naval J-20 is too big and converting it for CATOBAR operations will be far too expensive and unnecessary. STOBAR is quite useless considering the new capabilities of modern aircraft.

the J15 is a interim measures indeed

No doubt.

the J-15 share the same tech with J11B project...I don't think there is too much worry about its fighting abilities...the landing ability on the sea is the KEY.

Both landing and take off. But these are just basic problems which can be fixed overtime. The bigger problem would be to maintain a high operations tempo, which is not really possible with a Flanker. After all there is a limit to the Flankers capabilities too. It needs too many men and materials to keep it going and its higher operating tempo is only possible on a land base.

I'm afraid RN use the Su33 designation as well...BTW ,what we had in hand is a T-10K. the prototype of Su33(Su27K) ...and it might be PT03

Russia does not use the Su-33 designation. They use the Su-27K designation. This is explained in Yefim Gordon's book.

The Russians refer to it as Su-33 only when they talk of the aircraft as an export prospect. Hence it is an export designation.

1.the WS10H engine would supply 12.5 tons thrust and 12.8 tons for Take Off.

I thought the bump mode was above 13 tonnes.

2.J15 might be the only fighter use the PESA radar in China (some varient of the one tested on one of the J10B Prototype)...

Why does the Flanker get the step motherly treatment, or is this a PLAAF vs PLAN issue?

 

[cir]

New home for CV16 the "Liaoning":

where she docked 26.02.2013 for the 1st time.:thumb:

 

[shiphone]

designation changes were quite common after the SU broken up

Su27K--->Su33
Su27PU--->Su30
Su27IB--->Su-34
Su27M---> Su35（old）

and we saw the Su33 designation used in almost every recent reports about the RN.
----------------------------------

it might be too early to say that the 4Gen（china standard）Naval Shipboard Fighter =Naval J20...or we just say it would share some designs and most techs with J20 .and we will see it soon. and then let's go on this discussion.

the self-fund Project 310/AMF might have get its place in PLA after the maiden flight(to be confirmed)..it might have some slim chance to be turned into a shipboard fighter. but so far ,most source shows CAC might be the main contractor since CAC has worked on it since 2007.

another key factor affecting the competion is the politics which is more complicated than any other factors...

--------------------------

about the PESA on J15:

although some reliable source says so it's not confirmed yet...or we should say ' we won't be surprise if J15 uses PESA when most sources said we would jump directly into AESA '
this PESA project have been developped for years, the R&D team poured their great effort into this project. this order from PLAN might keep this R&D team alive. in our military Tech development system ,the winner of the project bid will take the biggest share of the cake but not all... the failed side always got some share to keep the team on ,at least they got the chance to win next time.

 

[J20!]

Prada, how much do you actually know about J15 and J16? Because your suggestions that J15 can only carry out fleet defense tells me that you're assuming J15 and Su33 are the same thing.

Su33 is significantly heavier than the baseline Su27 but still uses the same engines, meaning a very low TWR despite producing an incredible amount of lift off the wings(larger than the Su27) and canards. That's why it could only take off with half a tank of fuel and 6 A2A missiles and a variation of rockets and cluster bombs. It, like Su27/J11 are all firmly 4th generation fighters.

J15 on the other hand uses lighter composites through-out its structure ( most obvious under its wings and vertical tail fins ), and uses the more powerful WS10H to achieve much higher TWR in the same way as the new Mig 29K improves over the old 29K. This translates to a much higher weapons carrying capacity, with J15 able to carry various A2G munitions. These are weapons handling training session pics on Liaoning:

In that pic we see KD88, a 800kg missile Su33 could never have carried, yet J15 is projected to carry two as well as 4 AAM. Another missile in that pic is the illusive supersonic YJ12 anti-ship missile, a missile in Brahmos' weight class, and we both know Mig29K cant carry it.

Other improvements include a new phased array radar developed for both J15 and J16, backed up an advanced bi-directional data bus joint avionics suite, a new internal ECM suite and an improved IRST system based on the J11B that it also shares with J16.

PS. Don't believe the Russian bullshit bra, Mig29K CANNOT take-off from a stobar carrier at MTOW. Not even Rafale launched from a friggin 100m catapult off the Charles de Gaule carries a full fuel load, let alone takes off at MTOW. I know you'll argue, but its impossible, even from the most aft launch position on Vikramaditya, no 29K can take off at full weapons or fuel load. If you disagree, post a pic from one of Vik's flight deck trials of a 29K at full weapons load, because all I find are A2a loads of 4 BVRAAM and 2 SRAAM, the standard STOBAR A2A weapons package.

It's basic physics, J15 even with a lower TWR than the Mig still has almost double the lift surface area and much better low speed handling characteristics, so despite the Russian Mig 29K MTOW claim, I'd bet you my life that J15 can take off with much higher loads as evidenced by J15's ability to carry YJ12 and the 29K's inability to takeoff from Vik with a brahmos in tow.

Su33 and the old Mig 29K were early 4th gen carrier borne jets; the new 29K and the J15 are both 4.5 gen carrier platforms featuring phased array radars and advance avionics suites and electronics as well as significant composite material use in their airframes.

One last thing, Both flankers have a smaller deck footprint than the Mig 29K.

The IN's decision not to operate flankers was down to the fact that its projected carriers(Vikramaditya and Vikrant) didn't have large enough flight decks to efficiently operate(ie. high sortie rates were unachievable) large numbers of Su33's with their wings unfolded. As I'm sure you know, that isn't a problem on Kuznetsov and Liaoning, with flight decks 1000ft long and their islands skewed to the sides to maximize deck space.

Again look at the Russian Naviu's procurement of 29K's. They had 24 Su33's which they've replaced with 24 Mig's. If your assertion that Kuznetsov could carry more 29K's than Su33's, wouldn't they order more mig's than su33's? And guess how many J15 shelters have been built at the Naval air station basing Liaoning's airwing... 24. See post 550.

 

[ice berg]

Reports: China Carrier Permanent Base Is Qingdao
More Sharing ServicesShare


BEIJING February 27, 2013 (AP)

Chinese reports say the country's first aircraft carrier is headed for its permanent base in the northern port of Qingdao.

Speculation has swirled over where the ship christened the Liaoning would call home since it officially entered service on Sept. 25 amid a series of maritime disputes between China and its neighbors.

Qingdao is home to China's Northern Fleet responsible for operations in waters surrounding Japan, Russia, the Korean Peninsula, and the Bohai Gulf, about 150 kilometers (93 miles) from Beijing.

The Liaoning is a refurbished Soviet-era carrier purchased from Ukraine that China has described as an experimental model. China is believed to have plans to use its experience with the Liaoning to build four or more carriers of its own, basing some in the South China Sea.

 

[Daredevil]

Qindao, China

[map]qindao, China[/map]

 

[amoy]

Qindao, China

[map]qindao, China[/map]

Nah, spelled Qingdao once a German naval base

Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Daredevil]

Liaoning Aircraft Carrier Scale Model

Courtesy: Oleg Kushelov

 

[nimo_cn]

I had stayed in Qingdao for 7 years before I left, beautiful place. I believe we have another Chinese poster who living in Qingdao now.