You have to define the group.
Kashmir conflict-India should act now?
- Thread starter Sabir
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Good for you. Dictator MMuthu.
No one is a Dictator here....Good for you. Dictator MMuthu.
A good Dictator is much better for a country than a weak Democracy, Spliting India is the parting kick of the English to all Indians, Till today we are suffering.
What can we do, Even Gandhi is not capable to prevent this.
Mother Land is more important than Mother and Mother Tongue.
In which way are indians suffering because of this.
I cant blame india, even pakistan have not learnt the lesson.
But it still is the right thing to do.
Listen Fighter.
India holds elections, therefore, it is a democracy. Get over it and move on, please.
I never said India is not a democracy.
Even a democratic country can do undemocratic things.
Asking is OK. But then there are a lot of things that have to be discussed. Obtaining independence is not a very simple thing.
Being Scandinavian I am rather familiar with the history of the Nordic countries.
There was a Nordic Union in the 15th century.
Then for many years there were two Nordic countries - Denmark (Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Greenland , Faroe Islands) and Sweden (Sweden, Finland).
Sweden lost Finland to Russia in 1809.
Then Denmark had to give Norway to Sweden 1814.
The Norwegians wanted to be independent. Sweden accepted this in 1905.
Island used the Nazi occupation of Denmark to proclaim independence in 1944.
Although Iceland has a clearly defined national identity - first of all the language - it is not so easy for a country with a small population to serve its inhabitants as it is for a big nation. So many Icelandics study and work in other Nordic countries.
Today many people in Greenland and Faroe Islands wish to be independent. The main problem is that they cannot live very well without Danish support - education, health care etc. But discussions are being held. And Danish authorities listen to what they say. There are no taboos, as there obviously are in India.
I as an Indian agree with you, that at the end of the day, Kashmiri citizens should have to right to self determination. They should be able to choose whether or not they want to be independent, be with India, or be with Pakistan. A democracy like India should allow for this to happen.
But the situation is much more complicated than you think. Kashmir is a disputed territory. Half of it is with India, half is with Pakistan (and ofcourse some with China, but including that is pointless).
Now, ever since the 1950's, Pakistan has been changing the demographics of the Kashmir it controls. A very large population of ethnic Punjabi's have been moved into Pak-occupied Kashmir, who would 100% support Pakistan. Also, Pakistan has divided its part of Kashmir into Azaad Kashmir, and Northern Areas. The Northern Areas technically are also part of Kashmir, but Pakistan does not acknowledge this.
In India on the other hand, no non-Kashmiri is allowed to live (or even buy property/businesses) in Kashmir.
Moreover, back in the 1980's a Pakistani-backed insurgency erupted in Indian Kashmir, as a result of which 400 000 Kashmiri Hindu's & Sikhs were forced out of Kashmir. So Basically, Pakistan has used its covert operations to make sure that both sides of Kashmir (both Indian and Pakistani) would vote for Pakistan if a plebiscite was actually held. This is why Pakistan does not hesitate to call for a plebiscite anymore.
So basically, even if we do hold a plebiscite, it must be held in both Indian and Pakistani Kashmirs (and technically even Chinese administered Kashmir). Northern Areas of Pakistan must be included. Somehow, the large number of Pakistani Punjabis living in POK must not be allowed to vote. And the 400 000 Kashmiri Hindus&Sikhs that are in refugee camps scattered throughout India should also be allowed to vote.
That's a pretty huge task, don't you think? And especially since India and Pakistan don't trust each other, do you think a plebiscite is feasible at this stage? A plebiscite should have been held back in 1948, when demographics were not changed around by Pakistan, and China was not involved in this mess. But unfortunately at that time, Pakistan refused to leave Kashmir, and a plebiscite could not have been held.
Now it's too late. Best solution is, just make the LOC an International border. Let Pakistan keep what it has, and we keep what we have. There is no other solution.
Instead of dragging this on and on, lets just finish it off, bring Kashmiri Hindus & Sikhs back to their homeland, and focus on rebuilding our part of Kashmir, educating Kashmiris, giving them jobs, improving their standard of living, and bringing them into the mainstream of a prosperous, growing India.
Allah Hafiz.
A reply to a previous post (few pages back): Naxalites are not demanding a separate state from India. Rather, they are trying to bring down the "Capitalist" regime, and replace it with a communist regime. This is basically a result of high poverty in the country, and the inability of the government to bring proper development to undeveloped rural areas.
Land distribution is even the reason .
This is also (as I suppose you realise) not easy. And without cooperation with Pakistan I believe it is more or less impossible. India and Pakistan have to cooperate. By doing so they have everything to win.
A problem is of course that Pakistani regimes have usually been undemocratic and unreliable. I wish to believe that it is different now. At least the Pakistani government has now been democratically elected. But I have the feeling it is very unstable. I cannot post on the Pakistani Defense Forum any more. But at least I can read. And it seems most forumites there wish the Musharraf dictatorship back. So I think it is important for India (and for the world) to support democracy in Pakistan.
There is also another problem with bringing people back to their homeland; For how long is your homeland your homeland? E.g. should the Germans who had to leave Königsberg after WW II be brought back? Or the Finns who fled Karelia? And what about the Palestinians who fled Israel in 1948?
After some time all refugees will be dead. And the new generations would be strangers in the homeland of their parents.
Cooperation with Pakistan is virtually impossible. Despite the fact that it is a democracy, it is a very weak democracy. And if history is any sign, Pakistan will always be controlled by military, even if it is a "democracy". Pakistan, (and it's ISI in particular) will not stop until it controls all of Kashmir. It is not willing to settle for any middle ground. They have gone all out to make sure this happens. They have supported militancy & terrorism in Kashmir. They have supported (and still do) militancy & terrorism in Indian Punjab. They have funded/supported terror attacks throughout India. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Pakistan's ISI is pumping in huge sums of fake currency to weaken India's economy.
India has no trust for Pakistan, and never will.
And for what do we need cooperation? What I`m saying is, let Pakistan keep their part of Kashmir, we'll keep ours, and we can do whatever we need to do to develop our part of Kashmir. Pakistan need not be involved.
As for bringing people back to their homeland, it must be done. Hindus & Sikhs should be able to return back to Kashmir. This is necessary for the sake of all of India, including Kashmir. Fact is, that the Hindu & Sikh population in Kashmir went from 10-15% to virtually 0%. An entire community has been forced out of their land. They must be brought back.
Besides, a solution for Kashmir without factoring in the Hindu & Sikh Kashmiri population's aspirations is unjustifiable. Afterall, they still consider themselves Kashmiri, they want to go back to kashmir, but unfortunately they cannot, because of the situation.
Kashmir issue will be solved if either of two things happen-
1) One contender becomes devasted in a war and becomes crippled enough to put forword any claim on kashmir
or
2) India Pakistan reunites thus solving all dipoutes among them and prosper
1) One contender becomes devasted in a war and becomes crippled enough to put forword any claim on kashmir
or
2) India Pakistan reunites thus solving all dipoutes among them and prosper
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or Pakistan becomes crippled on its own as is happening now.
Or you hold a referendum to see what the Kashmiris really want rather than trying to speak for them.
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Not gonna happen. According to UN resolutions, Pakistani forces had to vacate the occupied Kashmir to allow plebiscite but that never happened, so India is not anymore bound to hold referendum. Moreover it is 60 yrs now and there were many demographic changes and the UN resolutions are as good as dead.
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Cut the referendum ploy! First stop the flow of terrorists of so called Freedom fighters and then sit down and talk of referendum. India is not a Banana Republic, which you can blackmail by putting a gun to our heads. We wont relent to your pressure tactics, and I am happy to see that the So called freedom fighters elsewhere have come back to haunt you!!!!
Recently in the news were protests in Pakistani Held Kashmir by the people against steps taken by Pakistan to make Kashmir a province of Pakistan. Hence with you loose any Moral Voice to ask for a referendum for Our Kashmir. If you go on talking of Kashmir without answering the above points, I will Just say this:
Kashmir Is an Integral Part Of India
