JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[AMCA]

Yes there is, when you do, it is no longer your shudh swadeshi aircraft anymore.
It is designed, powered by systems that are not native to India. Now shout indigenous all you like.

And JF17 is running on power extracted from Pakistani jinns?

Russia, China too import subsystems for their aircraft if necessary. Afterall no country can make everything on their own country not even US. There is also no country which calls an aircraft running on foreign tech indigenous except pakistan. We too manufacture Su30MKI in india ,it uses many indian developed technologies and our scientists also visited Russia for designing a twin seater Su30MkI based on original Su30 design.

 

[Dazzler]

And JF17 is running on power extracted from Pakistani jinns?

Russia, China too import subsystems for their aircraft if necessary. Afterall no country can make everything on their own country not even US. There is also no country which calls an aircraft running on foreign tech indigenous except pakistan. We too manufacture Su30MKI in india and it uses many indian developed technology.

No body ever claimed it to be pure indigenous project, rather a JOINT VENTURE.

AS i said, the term is grossly alien to a huge lot in your country. A case is when you brought the MKI into it, you showed you know zilch about joint projects and how they work.

We a co-developers and partners in the project, while india ONLY license assemble the MKI. India CANNOT sell it on its own without asking the Russians.

Both china and pakistan have intellectual property rights on JF-17, which means both can sell it to any one, like we did to Nigeria and they did to Myanmar, with each other's consent of course.

 

[Galaxy 7]

No body ever claimed it to be pure indigenous project, rather a JOINT VENTURE.

AS i said, the term is grossly alien to a huge lot in your country. A case is when you brought the MKI into it, you showed you know zilch about joint projects and how they work.

We a co-developers and partners in the project, while india ONLY license assemble the MKI. India CANNOT sell it on its own without asking the Russians.

Both china and pakistan have intellectual property rights on JF-17, which means both can sell it to any one, like we did to Nigeria and they did to Myanmar, with each other's consent of course.

Then why the fuck you r sending your jf17 to avic for overhaul?. You r manufacturing a aircraft but you cant overhaul it .

 

[Dazzler]

Then why the fuck you r sending your jf17 to avic for overhaul?. You r manufacturing a aircraft but you cant overhaul it .

When all overhaul lines are busy, and they are, the remaining aircraft are sent to Avic.

 

[Galaxy 7]

When all overhaul lines are busy, and they are, the remaining aircraft are sent to Avic.

Lol ,

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[Dazzler]

Lol ,

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........

A little search is too much perhaps? This should do

 

[Galaxy 7]

A little search is too much perhaps? This should do

View attachment 23584

You still need Chinese support to overhaul aircraft because you r not manufacturing this aircraft just assembling.

 

[Dazzler]

You still need Chinese support to overhaul aircraft because you r not manufacturing this aircraft just assembling.

Prove that we are not manufacturing just assembling.

 

[Galaxy 7]

Prove that we are not manufacturing just assembling.

Which part of jf17 you r manufacturing in house ? None.

 

[Pandora]

Which part of jf17 you r manufacturing in house ? None.

They making chutiya in house.Everything is bloody semi knock out while kamra is doing pech kach work.

 

[Dazzler]

Which part of jf17 you r manufacturing in house ? None.

main wings, vertical and horizontal tail, front an mid fuselage.

 

[Pandora]

main wings, vertical and horizontal tail, front an mid fuselage.

Yea kya load ho raha hai... Space ship from china???

 

[Dazzler]

View attachment 23585
Yea kya load ho raha hai... Space ship from china???

We gradually increased our workshare. From 20% in 2009 to 65% in 2018. It is an incredible learning process.

Thanks to this project, we have repaired, rebuilt several other aircrafts too.

 

[Pandora]

We gradually increased our workshare. From 20% in 2009 to 65% in 2018. It is an incredible learning process.

Thanks to this project, we have repaired, rebuilt several other aircrafts too.

Bhai mere yaha ka abdul garage wala bhi wohi claim karta hai ki after YEARs of experience in repairing all types of Vehicles ,Sir mein bhi gaadi bana sakta hu.Does that mean he knows everything or are you going to buy car from him.

 

[Dazzler]

Bhai mere yaha ka abdul garage wala bhi wohi claim karta hai ki after YEARs of experience in repairing all types of Vehicles ,Sir mein bhi gaadi bana sakta hu.Does that mean he knows everything or are you going to buy car from him.

No, but it shows that we are capable of helping ourselves against the odds.

Saab refused to assist, we rebuilt both.

Americans refused, we restored the damaged f-16 on our own at PAC KAMRA

We even restored one of the damaged P3C

 

[lcafanboy]

View attachment 23585
Yea kya load ho raha hai... Space ship from china???

Yup!!! They use JF-17 to send PAF pilots to heaven to fu*k 72 hoors.....with crash record these junk Fighters have they will soon be called WM-17 widow maker......

@Dazzler
Just a few questions

How many junk Fighters crashed up till now.

How many hours clocked per frame. Let me guess just 25hrs/JF-17 on average.

Do you know how many hours LCA serial production Fighters clocked 700hrs for just 6 LCAs sp1-6 that comes to more than 100hrs/airframe and increasing with more airframes and time.

Now tell PAF to flog those junk Fighters to more than 100 hrs per frame then see what happens you will know the difference.

Last time you did 2 junk Fighters crashed one into the sea taking pilots to space (heaven) to those pighoories......

Have fun scratching your head in frustration now.....

 

[cyclops]

Yes there is, when you do, it is no longer your shudh swadeshi aircraft anymore.

It is designed, powered by systems that are not native to India. Now shout indigenous all you like.

No its not.
The whole point is to wean out foreign subsytems eventually.
Which is what we are doing.

You can cry about how all it started and presume to think that after all those foreign inputs all development from our side has remained static but it isn't so.

It is indigenous by way of all our R&D that has gone into the current subsystems that have far surpassed most foreign input at the time of inception.

And Tejas', advanced iterations all are in road to have further more indigenous systems in it like Uttam AESA, Astra BVR, etc.

Can you say the same for JFT's Blk 3?

No body ever claimed it to be pure indigenous project, rather a JOINT VENTURE.

AS i said, the term is grossly alien to a huge lot in your country. A case is when you brought the MKI into it, you showed you know zilch about joint projects and how they work.

MKI is barely a joint project, yet throughout the years we have ended up making a decent few subsystems in it.

How many critical subsystems has pak contributed in the "Joint"F-17 since the 90s?

We a co-developers and partners in the project, while india ONLY license assemble the MKI. India CANNOT sell it on its own without asking the Russians.

No we can't, and we don't presume to either.

Both china and pakistan have intellectual property rights on JF-17, which means both can sell it to any one, like we did to Nigeria and they did to Myanmar, with each other's consent of course.

Pak has ipr of what?
Paint.

Pak has no contribution in any significant part of the JFT, I hope you are not asking people to believe that the shrewd chinese would just let you have their ipr which they themselves have acquired through the utmost difficulty?

C'mon you aren't even fooling yourself with that rhetoric.

We gradually increased our workshare. From 20% in 2009 to 65% in 2018. It is an incredible learning process.

Thanks to this project, we have repaired, rebuilt several other aircrafts too.

Like this?
This is a recent image too and it still looks like china is doing the lion's share of the work.

Even if we give pac the benefit of the doubt, at most it is still sticker-screwdriver tech and I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary.

I see pakistanis use broad non specific terms like "__% of JFT in pakistan" or "produces" or "can manufacture" all the time, but hardly have I ever seen them be confident and specific as to what these pakistani parts actually are.

Lets look at MKI for a moment.
MKI was inducted into the IAF back in 02 and till now we have these contributions it it.

• Mission Computer cum Display Processor – MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment – DARE)
• Radar Computer – RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
• Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
• IFF-1410A – Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
• Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
• Radar Altimeter – RAM-1701 (HAL)
• Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) – (LRDE)
• Multi Function Displays (MFD) – Samtel/DARE

Pak on the other hand was involved with the FC1 since the 90s.
What do you have in JFT that is even remotely close to the above?

No, but it shows that we are capable of helping ourselves against the odds.

Saab refused to assist, we rebuilt both.

Americans refused, we restored the damaged f-16 on our own at PAC KAMRA

We even restored one of the damaged P3C

Sure you "did".

How well you "did it" now that's the real question.


http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...16s-are-basically-defunct.80724/#post-1401096

 

[Dazzler]

No its not.
The whole point is to wean out foreign subsytems eventually.
Which is what we are doing.

You can cry about how all it started and presume to think that after all those foreign inputs all development from our side has remained static but it isn't so.

It is indigenous by way of all our R&D that has gone into the current subsystems that have far surpassed most foreign input at the time of inception.

And Tejas', advanced iterations all are in road to have further more indigenous systems in it like Uttam AESA, Astra BVR, etc.

Can you say the same for JFT's Blk 3?



MKI is barely a joint project, yet throughout the years we have ended up making a decent few subsystems in it.

How many critical subsystems has pak contributed in the "Joint"F-17 since the 90s?



No we can't, and we don't presume to either.

Pak has ipr of what?
Paint.

Pak has no contribution in any significant part of the JFT, I hope you are not asking people to believe that the shrewd chinese would just let you have their ipr which they themselves have acquired through the utmost difficulty?

C'mon you aren't even fooling yourself with that rhetoric.



Like this?
This is a recent image too and it still looks like china is doing the lion's share of the work.

Even if we give pac the benefit of the doubt, at most it is still sticker-screwdriver tech and I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary.

I see pakistanis use broad non specific terms like "__% of JFT in pakistan" or "produces" or "can manufacture" all the time, but hardly have I ever seen them be confident and specific as to what these pakistani parts actually are.

Lets look at MKI for a moment.
MKI was inducted into the IAF back in 02 and till now we have these contributions it it.

• Mission Computer cum Display Processor – MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment – DARE)
• Radar Computer – RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
• Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
• IFF-1410A – Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
• Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
• Radar Altimeter – RAM-1701 (HAL)
• Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) – (LRDE)
• Multi Function Displays (MFD) – Samtel/DARE

Pak on the other hand was involved with the FC1 since the 90s.
What do you have in JFT that is even remotely close to the above?



Sure you "did".

How well you "did it" now that's the real question.


http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...16s-are-basically-defunct.80724/#post-1401096

Your MKI is just a customized SU-30MK meant for India, so you chose systems you wanted from all over the world. Thats where the so called joint project ends. Shout as much as you like but it is nothing more than license assembly done in India. You still have to import major components from Russia for license manufacturing. Deny it all you like, thats the truth of your MKI.

As for our capabilities, you guys are truly clueless. You seem to have no idea, thats a good thing actually, the surprise element is working. Still, FYI:this aircraft got badly damaged while doing a bombing sortie over TTP. The bomb exploded midair and WC Azman Khalil was left with a damaged plane. Turbine failed,

 

[Steven Rogers]

Your MKI is just a customized SU-30MK meant for India, so you chose systems you wanted from all over the world. Thats where the so called joint project ends. Shout as much as you like but it is nothing more than license assembly done in India. You still have to import major components from Russia for license manufacturing. Deny it all you like, thats the truth of your MKI.

As for our capabilities, you guys are truly clueless. You seem to have no idea, thats a good thing actually, the surprise element is working. Still, FYI:this aircraft got badly damaged while doing a bombing sortie over TTP. The bomb exploded midair and WC Azman Khalil was left with a damaged plane. Turbine failed, View attachment 23593

View attachment 23592

License production allows India to do anything with the aircraft, we can add our weapons on our own, we make 75 percent of the aircraft parts, their is hardly any west thing left on the aircraft and the AL31F turbofan is also produced in the country from materials supplied by Russia due to the contract, if have any idea how many hours did your injured player flew again, how many hours avg your F16s flew, how many of your Jf17 has your contribution in the electronics, you have a badly affected industry which can actually fabricate Semi conductor material for radars and EW, or even the mfd which you assemble from Chinese knock down kit. You negotiated Nigeria, but the profit will also be shared to China, so what so much of IP you gained when you claim it indigenous. Indian work on Su30mki made India supplier of avionics and spares to countries like Malaysia which also operate Su30 variant. Can a Pakistani official provide the actual percentage of the work share in manufacturing the aircraft, last time one spoke about your AL Khalid tank to be around 30 percent, the video was instantly removed so that they can keep you in delusion. By the way the the incident you're talking has happened several times in India and the aircraft and pilot landed safely. At one case the land gear got jammed and the aircraft was low on fuel, Brilliant steps from hal engineer not only save pilot but also a multimillion dollars aircraft.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[Dazzler]

License production allows India to do anything with the aircraft, we can add our weapons on our own, we make 75 percent of the aircraft parts, their is hardly any west thing left on the aircraft and the AL31F turbofan is also produced in the country from materials supplied by Russia due to the contract, if have any idea how many hours did your injured player flew again, how many hours avg your F16s flew, how many of your Jf17 has your contribution in the electronics, you have a badly affected industry which can actually fabricate Semi conductor material for radars and EW, or even the mfd which you assemble from Chinese knock down kit. You negotiated Nigeria, but the profit will also be shared to China, so what so much of IP you gained when you claim it indigenous. Indian work on Su30mki made India supplier of avionics and spares to countries like Malaysia which also operate Su30 variant. Can a Pakistani official provide the actual percentage of the work share in manufacturing the aircraft, last time one spoke about your AL Khalid tank to be around 30 percent, the video was instantly removed so that they can keep you in delusion. By the way the the incident you're talking has happened several times in India and the aircraft and pilot landed safely. At one case the land gear got jammed and the aircraft was low on fuel, Brilliant steps from hal engineer not only save pilot but also a multimillion dollars aircraft.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

No it does not, you cannot change the engine or alter the airframe without asking the Russians. Try it and they will drag you under IPR clause and put fine.

AL31s come directly from Russia, so does the N011M Bars, so does the flight control and many other components. HAL is a mere assembler and NOT the maker of the plane. Even then it imports several components.

At least learn some basics on your own industry before pointing fingers and badmouthing those who you have no clue about.

Regards