JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[sthf]

Your biggest problem is trying to ridicule JF17 for not being a Jaguar or a Mig 29. Different designs different capabilities.

I am ridiculing our inbred neighbours for even pretending that they stand a chance against Indian Navy. The comparison is fair because weapon systems do not exist in isolation. When "you" say that JF-17 is capable system, you need to specify against whom?

JF17 is a light multi role combat jet. It is obviously not going to haul the same amount of ordinance to the same ranges that a twin engine medium weight Mig 29 can or a twin engine jet designed almost exclusively for air to ground combat like the Jaguar.

JF-17 in Anti-Ship role will face Mig-29K. So the question once again is, can they effectively fulfill the role they are trusted with?

Hawk 200 has export orders because it is a capability in demand with air forces accross the world. JF17 has export orders because its a capability that satisfies the requirement of certain air forces around the world.

For bombing tribals in FATA, I am sure JF-17 is a superb platform. But is that all it'll do? Is sinking Indian carriers on the list?

Unlike JF-17s, Jaguars are being retrofitted with EL/M 2052 AESA. Something for you to ponder.

Quite conspicuously, I don't see you attributing the capabilities you mock the JF17 for lacking to its Indian counterpart Tejas... is Tejas any less capable because it can't haul the same amount of ordinance as an 80's era Tornado? Try arguments that don't reek of fanboyism.

For a very simple reason, Tejas is neither the mainstay of IAF nor is it required to do Anti-Ship patrols. Both IAF & IN have other, significantly more capable assets, PAF doesn't.

New airframes. BVR capability whilst in the Anti-ship role. Easier maintenance and easier access to spares and upgrades considering that JF17 is built in house. Datalinks to supporting ZDK 03 AEW&C aircraft.

In either configuration, the switch to JF17 is qualitative improvement to the existing anti-ship capabilities of the Pakistani air Force.

Qualitative improvement, definitely but to what extent? It can't really fulfill it's desired role.

PAF's F-16 were a quantum leap for Pakistan. Same F-16s ran with tail between their legs when confronted with BVR armed Mig-29s. Or when a Mig-25 humiliated entire Pakistan by breaking sound barrier over Islamabad.

Judging a weapon system in isolation is a futile exercise. It is akin to thinking yourself as the bravest man ever, in your own home.

 

[AMCA]

Stated to be just under 1400 km.

:bounce::bounce::bounce: WOW...........Thats a good number given that combat radius of Eurofighter Typhoon in lo-lo-lo configuration is 601km & 3-hr combat air patrol is185 km , Su30MKI is 1300km, MiG29k is 850km, F16 is 550km and F/A18 Hornet has 741km combat Radius in high-lo-high flight.

Thats just funny, 40 years in the making, 6 being tested

24 Tejas were made, 6 in service with Sq. no. 45.

2 per year can be manufactured at ADA/ HAL

ADA is not involved in production work. It is made by HAL and some private companies.

Not 2 per year but 8 to 16, can be increased to 24 if needed. With entry of private companies production rate will be picking up from this year.

 

[rone]

Stated to be just under 1400 km.

Dude it's ferry range.. Combat radius for even j10 is 700km for j17 it must be 400-550 not more becoz of total fuel capcity and engine efficiency factor ... Combat radius means full load only internal fuel even with high g maneuvers

 

[lcafanboy]

Stated to be just under 1400 km.

WOW............ 1400kms with full weapons load or just carrying drop tanks and then Fighting with FARTS

Porkies don't even know how to lie......... or are they Ignorant nuts

Even Rafales and Eurofighters and mighty SU30MKIs don't have that kind of combat range on internal fuel (all these fighters have just about 1300-1400 kms combat range with drop tanks and a few weapons only su 30mki don't have drop tank and have combat range of 1300kms with full weapons load).

 

[pankaj nema]

WOW............ 1400kms with full weapons load or just carrying drop tanks and then Fighting with FARTS

Porkies don't even know how to lie......... or are they Ignorant nuts

Even Rafales and Eurofighters and mighty SU30MKIs don't have that kind of combat range on internal fuel (all these fighters have just about 1300-1400 kms combat range with drop tanks and a few weapons only su 30mki don't have drop tank and have combat range of 1300kms with full weapons load).

The Fuel Guzzler RD 93 engine will Give them the shock of their lives ; when they realise that The chinese have fooled
them all this time

 

[tsunami]

Stated to be just under 1400 km.

He is talking about combat radius not the distance it travels in an entire year.

 

[sthf]

He is talking about combat radius not the distance it travels in an entire year.

........................

 

[patriots]

Bhai in wikipedia ..... nothing written about it's combat radius....
though I don't believe in wiki. . . for such content s ...
...........................................................................

 

[Galaxy 7]

You can measure the quality of the product from it's monetary value. A 25 million jet is for those who cannot afford decent jets. A decent military helicopter costs more than jf17. Pakis themselves r paying 39 million usd for single Mi35. Somehow pakis trying to fool us this 25 million jet has more goodies than other jet

 

[Pandora]

For starters- Combat radius is when aircraft uses after burner more often ,Gripen got 700-800km with two AAM on wingtips.

 

[darshan978]

Stated to be just under 1400 km.

lol biggetst ignorant in the whole world !!
do u understand diff between ferry range and combat redius? is your junk fighter aircraft going in combat without weapons?? lmao

look at the fuel capacity of jf 17[Internal Fuel Capacity: 2,329 kg (5,135 lb) ]and tejas [Internal fuel capacity: 2,458 kg]

tejas clearly has more fuel capacity and u are ignorant enough to think your jf 17 has more range than tejas huh?? not to mention that high fuel guzzler rd 33mk series engine highly unreliable engine with high maintenance and poor or low hours

plus my ignorant paki friend here is total list of LCA produced not just 6 figure u got from some where

Aircraft already built and projected models to be built. Model designations, tail numbers and dates of first flight are shown.

Technology Demonstrators (TD)

• TD-1 (KH2001) – 4 Jan 2001
• TD-2 (KH2002) – 6 June 2002

Prototype Vehicles (PV)

• PV-1 (KH2003) – 25 November 2003
• PV-2 (KH2004) – 1 December 2005
• PV-3 (KH2005) – 1 December 2006.
• PV-5 (KH-T2009) – 26 November 2009 – Fighter/Trainer Variant
• PV-6 (KH-T2010) – 8 November 2014 – Fighter/Trainer Variant.[67]

Naval Prototypes (NP)

• NP-1 (KH-T3001) – Two-seat Naval variant for carrier operations. Rolled out in July 2010.[150] NP-1 made its first flight on 27 April 2012.[60]
• NP-2 (KH3002) – First flight on 7 February 2015 with sky-jump take-off and arrested landing required in STOBAR carrier.[151]

Limited Series Production (LSP) aircraft

• LSP-1 (KH2011) – 25 April 2007. This LCA is powered by F404-F2J3 Engine.[152]
• LSP-2 (KH2012) – 16 June 2008. This is the first LCA fitted with F404-IN20 engine.[152]
• LSP-3 (KH2013) – 23 April 2010. The first aircraft to have the Hybrid MMR radar[50] and will be close to the IOC standard.
• LSP-4 (KH2014) – 2 June 2010. The first aircraft that was flown in the configuration that will be delivered to the Indian Air Force.[51] In addition to the Hybrid MMR, the aircraft flew with a Countermeasure Dispensing System and an identify friend or foe electronic system.[153]
• LSP-5 (KH2015) – 19 November 2010. IOC standard, with all sensors including night lighting in the cockpit, and an auto-pilot.[154]
• LSP-6 – Not built.[155]
• LSP-7 (KH2017) – 9 March 2012. APU intake has been aerodynamically reshaped.
• LSP-8 – First flight trial completed in March 2013. LSP 8 is the version that will go for production.[65]
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• SP 1 to 7 inducted with combat capability

 

[Dazzler]

lol biggetst ignorant in the whole world !!
do u understand diff between ferry range and combat redius? is your junk fighter aircraft going in combat without weapons?? lmao

look at the fuel capacity of jf 17[Internal Fuel Capacity: 2,329 kg (5,135 lb) ]and tejas [Internal fuel capacity: 2,458 kg]

tejas clearly has more fuel capacity and u are ignorant enough to think your jf 17 has more range than tejas huh?? not to mention that high fuel guzzler rd 33mk series engine highly unreliable engine with high maintenance and poor or low hours

plus my ignorant paki friend here is total list of LCA produced not just 6 figure u got from some where

Aircraft already built and projected models to be built. Model designations, tail numbers and dates of first flight are shown.

Technology Demonstrators (TD)

• TD-1 (KH2001) – 4 Jan 2001
• TD-2 (KH2002) – 6 June 2002

Prototype Vehicles (PV)

• PV-1 (KH2003) – 25 November 2003
• PV-2 (KH2004) – 1 December 2005
• PV-3 (KH2005) – 1 December 2006.
• PV-5 (KH-T2009) – 26 November 2009 – Fighter/Trainer Variant
• PV-6 (KH-T2010) – 8 November 2014 – Fighter/Trainer Variant.[67]

Naval Prototypes (NP)

• NP-1 (KH-T3001) – Two-seat Naval variant for carrier operations. Rolled out in July 2010.[150] NP-1 made its first flight on 27 April 2012.[60]
• NP-2 (KH3002) – First flight on 7 February 2015 with sky-jump take-off and arrested landing required in STOBAR carrier.[151]

Limited Series Production (LSP) aircraft

• LSP-1 (KH2011) – 25 April 2007. This LCA is powered by F404-F2J3 Engine.[152]
• LSP-2 (KH2012) – 16 June 2008. This is the first LCA fitted with F404-IN20 engine.[152]
• LSP-3 (KH2013) – 23 April 2010. The first aircraft to have the Hybrid MMR radar[50] and will be close to the IOC standard.
• LSP-4 (KH2014) – 2 June 2010. The first aircraft that was flown in the configuration that will be delivered to the Indian Air Force.[51] In addition to the Hybrid MMR, the aircraft flew with a Countermeasure Dispensing System and an identify friend or foe electronic system.[153]
• LSP-5 (KH2015) – 19 November 2010. IOC standard, with all sensors including night lighting in the cockpit, and an auto-pilot.[154]
• LSP-6 – Not built.[155]
• LSP-7 (KH2017) – 9 March 2012. APU intake has been aerodynamically reshaped.
• LSP-8 – First flight trial completed in March 2013. LSP 8 is the version that will go for production.[65]
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• SP 1 to 7 inducted with combat capability

Lol, 40 years and still Lsps flying, enough said.

 

[Dazzler]

Yes......

JF 17 Thunder ran away from Tejas during Bahrain airshow even after paying $500k for the slot.

Lol, it participated in over two dozen shows and proved its mettle the world over. While Tejas has just one show on its CV.

And here we have chest thumping chaps beating the tejas drum since the day.

 

[rkhanna]

@Dazzler.

The FC-1 in present form is not even upto spec of the LCA in its IOC Mk1 avatar. Basically the FC-1 would never have passed testing muster in India.

Just because the PAF rushed it into service (how many have crashed so far btw?) to show the world that its a working solution to its airframes vows it does not take away from the fact that its a donkey in a horse race.

Your Blk II is a joke and by the time your blk III/IV actually come into mass service the Tejas would already be in service with superior tech.

So far all you have used the FC-1 is for bombing villages that too AFTER your Attack helo force did most of the hard work and the FC-1 did mop-op operations for PR.

It is an analog plane that has WVR Capability (no HMCS) and can drop Dumb Bombs ONLY. The Mig-21Bison has a superior Radar, Missle System, EW Suite and HMCS and would eat the FC-1 for breakfast. Leave the LCA out of it.

But all that is a moot point.

The LCA has given rise to multiple industries in India. AAM's / AG Ordanance / EW Systems/ AESA Radar (Uttam has now finished ground testing), Datalink, Wind tunnel and other aux infrastructure, Engines etc etc. You dont have to look further than the recent MKI upgrade and the Darin III jaguar to see proof.

yes LCA maynot be the best. But it will be better than anything the PAF fields and equal to most the PLAAF fields (baring their 5th Gen) . HOWEVER - the tech development leap the next time around is going to be much quicker for us.

What have you guys achieved outside of the paint job?

 

[Flame Thrower]

Lol, it participated in over two dozen shows and proved its mettle the world over. While Tejas has just one show on its CV.

And here we have chest thumping chaps beating the tejas drum since the day.

Yeah that's true. That's so true and I never thought about it.....



hmm.......



JF-17 participated in dozen airshows. Even after having so much experience, it ran away from Tejas. But why it had to run away and hurt it's fanboys pride. Such a shame isn't it!!!!!



If JF-17 couldn't face Tejas in mere airshow, will it face Tejas in the war!!!?? Or Surrender like Niazi in 1971..........

 

[rkhanna]

Lol, it participated in over two dozen shows and proved its mettle the world over. While Tejas has just one show on its CV.

And here we have chest thumping chaps beating the tejas drum since the day.

Wait. is the validation for your mental masturbation Airshows? lol with such logic capability no wonder you guys decided to induct as half assed airplane

Btw how does all the FC-1s you have crashed till date figure in your equation?

 

[AMCA]

@Dazzler.

The FC-1 in present form is not even upto spec of the LCA in its IOC Mk1 avatar. Basically the FC-1 would never have passed testing muster in India.

Just because the PAF rushed it into service (how many have crashed so far btw?) to show the world that its a working solution to its airframes vows it does not take away from the fact that its a donkey in a horse race.

Your Blk II is a joke and by the time your blk III/IV actually come into mass service the Tejas would already be in service with superior tech.

So far all you have used the FC-1 is for bombing villages that too AFTER your Attack helo force did most of the hard work and the FC-1 did mop-op operations for PR.

It is an analog plane that has WVR Capability (no HMCS) and can drop Dumb Bombs ONLY. The Mig-21Bison has a superior Radar, Missle System, EW Suite and HMCS and would eat the FC-1 for breakfast. Leave the LCA out of it.

But all that is a moot point.

The LCA has given rise to multiple industries in India. AAM's / AG Ordanance / EW Systems/ AESA Radar (Uttam has now finished ground testing), Datalink, Wind tunnel and other aux infrastructure, Engines etc etc. You dont have to look further than the recent MKI upgrade and the Darin III jaguar to see proof.

yes LCA maynot be the best. But it will be better than anything the PAF fields and equal to most the PLAAF fields (baring their 5th Gen) . HOWEVER - the tech development leap the next time around is going to be much quicker for us.

What have you guys achieved outside of the paint job?

Also the mig 29 upg has indian D29 electronic warfare system. Many of the avionics on su30mki such as radar warning recievers, direction finding pods,etc are of indian origin. Infact su30mki has more indian subsystems than paki systems on jf17. Plus the complete avionics pakage on jaguar DARIN III except AESA radar is indian.



One question. Which EW system do you have on jf17?

 

[porky_kicker]

Also the mig 29 upg has indian D29 electronic warfare system. Many of the avionics on su30mki such as radar warning recievers, direction finding pods,etc are of indian origin. Infact su30mki has more indian subsystems than paki systems on jf17. Plus the complete avionics pakage on jaguar DARIN III except AESA radar is indian

Seriously ?

There are no Pakistani developed subsystems on fc1.
Till date I have not come across a single one.

 

[G10]

Stated to be just under 1400 km.

Yes very true. Allah will carry weapons and munitions. These indian banyas dont know the power of mard e momins.
I didnt want to tease religion here but cant help it when it comes to mard e momins of porkistan.

 

[darshan978]

Lol, 40 years and still Lsps flying, enough said.

idiot read last line 1 to 7 sp inducted there is diff between sp and lsp and behave mature its not your f... pdif