Indian T-90S a sub-standard tank ?

[Koovie]

I have a strong suspicion that these were not T-90's but T-72B Model 1989 or Model 1990, the have Kontakt-5 ERA installed and from the outside are very similiar to T-90 with cast turret. Untrained eye won't notice small details and see the difference. However both tanks havea minot details that makes them different. T-72B have different, simpler TC cupola and lack TSzU-1-7 Shtora-1 system that are mounted on T-90's.

Without any other proof we wont have any other option than to assume that the guys who wrote the article know the difference between a T 72 and a T 90

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Without any other proof we wont have any other option than to assume that the guys who wrote the article know the difference between a T 72 and a T 90

Some people does mistake..

^^T-72BM

^^ Indian T-90S older models..



They look same, But not same..

 

[p2prada]

how many MBT Russian got in total ???

I already mentioned. 700+ in total including 200+ old T-90s.

Bottom line is that Russian are not putting their money on T90 and they want us to buy this tank for our army.

They have a far superior defence industry compared to ours. They don't need to conform to our standards, rather it is the other way round.

They are already working on their 4th gen tank after having built the Obj 195.

Bottomline is if their Armata program succeeds they will not need to buy T-90. It is the same thing with IA, why would they want to waste time with Arjun Mk2 or even Mk3. Instead even we can build a 4th gen tank.

If the Armata program sees major delays, then they have no choice but to go for a few more T-90Ms.

 

[methos]

I already mentioned. 700+ in total including 200+ old T-90s.

He meant MBT, not only T-90s. They have more than 20,000 tanks, but most of them are in storage, being sold or being scrapped. GlobalSecurity claims that roughly 6,500 MBTs were active in 2008.

 

[sayareakd]

They have a far superior defence industry compared to ours. They don't need to conform to our standards, rather it is the other way round.

yeah if they are not buying it so should we. BTW i am waiting for T90 firing non line of sight missile, link.

 

[methos]

yeah if they are not buying it so should we. BTW i am waiting for T90 firing non line of sight missile, link.

LAHAT also needs a line-of-sight, if the tank using it is all alone. Brochure.

 

[p2prada]

yeah if they are not buying it so should we. BTW i am waiting for T90 firing non line of sight missile, link.

There is no such tank available.

 

[Bhadra]

All the while Russians are NOT buying anymore T-90's. Indians and their Russian/Iran love is so demeaning to true patriots.

That is the crux of the problem. Every one in India including the Media and now DODOs want to decide what is needed by the Harmed Forces, what should they do, how should they do and in what condition should they live their lives including their status in the society.

*
Why can't their professional aspects to left to them? Do they have any choices? Not much !!

 

[Bhadra]

LAHAT also needs a line-of-sight, if the tank using it is all alone. Brochure.

Convert the tank into a mortar carrier and fire the top attack 120 / 81 mm smart HEAT bomb !

12 / 9 km range and eliminate tanks .... Ha Ha Ha

 

[Damian]

The only real LOS/BLOS GLATGM for tanks is US XM1111 MRM, still yet not standarized and fielded. AFAIK there was similiar project in Russia also, codenamed "Sokol" I think.

 

[san]

T-90 is world class, not sub standard. DRDO thinks Arjun is sub standard and blame it on OFB for it.

The T-90 deal may have helped the Russian tank industry, but the tank still came cheaper than what could have been.

The Pakistanis paid $2Million each for their 320 T-80s with 52 of them second hand. All that without ToT or license manufacture. We paid $2.5Million a piece for ToT and license.

p2prda, Earlier Arjun had problem with quality and it is on the manufacturer OFB. OFB is poor in quality control and it is fact. We cannot blame DRDO on quality otherwise all DRDO design missiles shall have start falling from sky after fired and army had not asked DRDO to make simulator for their love T90. The OFB manufactured/assembled T90 will also have same quality issue that of Arjun as OFB will follow the same process. As far as the price of the T90, there are several critical equipments that were bought separately paying addition of the $2.5 MM. Foget about shtora. So a fully assembled T90 will be at higher price. T90 is the world class may be as per Indian or Russian standard but not as per world standard. It missed the second most important factor "survivability", though good in "firepower" and "move ability". I did not give damn on TOT as last heard that buying from Russia is less costly than screw driving /assembling or partially manufacturing it in India.

 

[Zebra]

What about Japanese Type 10 tank. Are they useful in IA?

Respected member, someone please, who can guide here.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

What about Japanese Type 10 tank. Are they useful in IA?

Respected member, someone please, who can guide here.

Thanks in advance.

They might be, But is harder to know about there composite Armour tech, how developed it is..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The OFB manufactured/assembled T90 will also have same quality issue that of Arjun as OFB will follow the same process.

As far as the price of the T90, there are several critical equipments that were bought separately paying addition of the $2.5 MM. Foget about shtora. So a fully assembled T90 will be at higher price.

T90 is the world class may be as per Indian or Russian standard but not as per world standard. It missed the second most important factor "survivability", though good in "firepower" and "move ability". I did not give damn on TOT as last heard that buying from Russia is less costly than screw driving /assembling or partially manufacturing it in India.

1. True


2. True


3. T-90S have good firepower mainly because of the ammo used, It have good mobility..

 

[p2prada]

We cannot blame DRDO on quality otherwise all DRDO design missiles shall have start falling from sky after fired

That guarantee does not exist. Only a war will prove if our missiles are effective or not.

and army had not asked DRDO to make simulator for their love T90.

Only Russia can supply simulators for T-90. Contract stuff.

The OFB manufactured/assembled T90 will also have same quality issue that of Arjun as OFB will follow the same process.

OFB has making T-72s for over 30 years. Can't compare old experience with new. The components on the T-90 are not the same as Arjun. Even when they outsource the work, the companies outside have been making T-72 components for years. T-72 production ended only in 2006, as soon as T-90 production started.

Arjun is a brand new project for OFB. Thus the risks are higher, especially considering Army is not serious about Arjun.

Ajai Shukla reports the user has been complaining about shoddy work on the Arjun. So, what happened to the reports of Arjun being all bad ass. It is typical for one company to blame the other for mistakes.

As far as the price of the T90, there are several critical equipments that were bought separately paying addition of the $2.5 MM.

Nope. Only major extra addition on the T-90 must be BMS. It does not cost $2.5million/tank. Some additional indigenous equipment like the Ballistic Computer can be an added addition. Maybe an AC has already been added. None of this will double the cost of the tank.

Foget about shtora.

Nobody is talking about Shtora. Many are talking about Iron Fist on both Arjun and T-90.

So a fully assembled T90 will be at higher price.

Only slightly unless the T-90MS upgrades are added. But that will make it a much more effective tank. So, why should anybody complain then?

T90 is the world class may be as per Indian or Russian standard but not as per world standard.

The only thing missing on our T-90s is a good shell. Compared to Arjun's firepower, even the ancient BM-42 is superior to the Arjun's shell. Russians have developed better shells, but are yet to allow exports. Maybe the Russians already have shells equivalent to what Europe uses today. But for our threat environment, what we have may be adequate. With Russia releasing new shells for import along with OFB's new shell for the T Types, we will know how things stand.

It missed the second most important factor "survivability", though good in "firepower" and "move ability".

The T-90 is more on survivability than Arjun. I think you need to go through the Arjun and Main Battle tank thread. If frontal armour is considered, the T-90 has same levels of armour along with ERA on top of it. A lower number of weak points to boot combined with turret design.

The major flaw on T-90 is if you place shells in the hull, which is exposed to the crew and can be dangerous if the tank is penetrated. But Arjun's shell placement is not good either. T-90 can alleviate the problem by removing shells in the hull and keeping only the ones in the Carousel, which is very safe. But Arjun has no such solution.

Apart from the flaws we can see, there could be a 100 other flaws that we cannot see at all. For eg: How do we know if the design of the internal estate is good? There are numerous parliamentary reports which claim the Arjun has consistently failed trials owing to some reason or the other. Even in 2005, when DRDO had replaced all analog components on Arjun with digital, the Sagem rangefinder melted and Arjun failed to fire. In 2007, a single 1000 Km run saw 4 engine replacements on the Arjun. At the same time, in Saudi Arabia the T-90 saw a 1300Km run with no engine replacements even through a sand storm(coincidence). The other competitors couldn't match it.

I did not give damn on TOT as last heard that buying from Russia is less costly than screw driving /assembling or partially manufacturing it in India.

Yeah. But it helps gain experience, creates jobs, keeps money in India and help build a foundation for the FMBT.

 

[Zebra]

Looks like IA worked very hard to find the loopholes of Arjun rather than T-90s.

btw, if someone finds 100 % perfect thing in this perfect world, please let me know about it.
Thanks in advance.

If no Arjun mk-2s now then no need to spend for development of FMBT also.
IA will reject it straight away, we all know that.

 

[pmaitra]

There is no such thing as 100% perfect.

T-90 has had its share of problems. It had a severe overheating problem during trials in India. Other than that the thermal imaging also malfunctioned.

Every system has its share of problems which are rectified. In the deserts, the Arjun looks like a better option, while in the mountains, the T-90 will have an edge.

 

[Zebra]

There is no such thing as 100% perfect.

T-90 has had its share of problems. It had a severe overheating problem during trials in India. Other than that the thermal imaging also malfunctioned.

Every system has its share of problems which are rectified. In the deserts, the Arjun looks like a better option, while in the mountains, the T-90 will have an edge.

Than 50-50, get them both.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Get rid of those T-72M1 with anyone or both...


Though if there are plans to get T-90MS ( Flawed in deign ) some tank MRCA is needed..

 

[methos]

Even though it is "flawed" the T-90MS is better than the T-90S or Arjun.