Indian Air Force Light Combat Aircraft Tejas India's Second Supersonic Fighter

[Enquirer]

These time lines are very scary. HAL and ADA have been guilty of huge delays. With the way LCA is going on, AMCA is just another figment of imagination.

Indeed.
There's a new project underway with DRDO/ADA to put 'internal RWR & SPJ' onto Mk1A. Not sure if this is the reason why the first flight is getting delayed.
Also, there has been absolutely no news on the reduction of landing gear weight - which reduction being the single most important reason HAL suggested to justify creating Mk1A in the first place.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Mk1A is getting a new RADAR for crying out loud!!!!
It needs to test the radar in ALL modes - including firing all types of missiles, ground mapping etc etc etc!!

Additionally the landing gear is supposedly new (& lighter) which will need testing!!!

All in all, it's a minimum of 2 years of testing to QUALIFY the fighter for FOC (Mk1A)!!

Radar, if made in India, will already have good amount of integration. If radar is imported from France or Israel, then integration will begin in next year and get finished. The Mk1A is an upgrade from MK1-FOC and the testing time is limited to testing additional parts only. Also, the new parts like landing gears are incorporated into planes after extensive testing in other prototypes. Unlike IFR, these are very critical and can't be taken to chance.

Kaveri is a no brainer. We are going in for the GE 414 for the AMCA and it I better that we go in for the same for LCA Mk2.

AMCA will have F414 for prototypes and first few planes only

You are correct about the new Radar. Needs more space and that means will affect the design of the aircraft. But that was my point- if we have to tinker with the design and the engines GE 414 is ready then jump to MK 2. Start deliveries of MK1, let the pilots get used to it and slowly upgrade them to MK 2.

Tejas is getting AESA radar from its current PESA radar. How is spacing a problem? I don't understand.

These time lines are very scary. HAL and ADA have been guilty of huge delays. With the way LCA is going on, AMCA is just another figment of imagination.

MK2 and AMCA is made by ADA, MK1A is made by HAL. The subsystems are interchangeable. I really don't understand the problem here except for design and some additional sensors for AMCA

 

[sob]

Tejas is getting AESA radar from its current PESA radar. How is spacing a problem? I don't understand.

Could you clarify on the AESA radar and the PESA you mentioned. I did not understand it.

MK2 and AMCA is made by ADA, MK1A is made by HAL. The subsystems are interchangeable. I really don't understand the problem here except for design and some additional sensors for AMCA

AMCA is a twin engine plane. It is a totally different system, not some design change as mentioned by you.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Could you clarify on the AESA radar and the PESA you mentioned. I did not understand it.

Tejas MK1A will have AESA radar whereas current Tejas has PESA radar.

Could you clarify on the AESA radar and the PESA you mentioned. I did not understand it.



AMCA is a twin engine plane. It is a totally different system, not some design change as mentioned by you.

It is different system but the subsystem like radar, RAM coating, HMDS, avionics etc are similar. Design and related parameters are different.

 

[WolfPack86]

#Tejas HAL Today HAL achieved another milestone when #Tejas successfully Refuels Mid Air. What a setback for HAL & India that it has been denied Rafale in favour of Anil Ambani. The advocates of Make in India have favoured Freind in Need.

 

[WolfPack86]

India's LCA Tejas crosses a major milestone towards final operational clearance (FOC), performs its first mid-air refuel. Details shortly. This a few months after the LCA's 1st hot refuel (pic below) & over a year after its first flight with the @Cobham_plc refielling probe.

 

[G10]

So one more year for actual refuelling in air? Public enterprise is one lazy ass.

 

[vishnugupt]

So this is here FOC would be achieved if IAF didn't ask for Software define radio as a FOC requirement. They just love foreign maal. Foreign maal work as a weed for our arm forces if they couldn't get it in pure form then must add it in indigenous products. Army just reduced effective range of assault rifle in order to fit foreign maal under Army requirement but in near future we will see Soldiers using INSAS instead of that foreign rifle like Garudas using AK variant in Kashmir rather then shiny Tavor

 

[Jackd]

So this is here FOC would be achieved if IAF didn't ask for Software define radio as a FOC requirement. They just love foreign maal. Foreign maal work as a weed for our arm forces if they couldn't get it in pure form then must add it in indigenous products. Army just reduced effective range of assault rifle in order to fit foreign maal under Army requirement but in near future we will see Soldiers using INSAS instead of that foreign rifle like Garudas using AK variant in Kashmir rather then shiny Tavor

I believe you are wrong as the trials conducted are not wet refueling trials, instead, Tejas just docked with a probe on the IL78 and no actual fuel was passed between them. Also, Gsh 23 gun trials still haven't begun.
With regards to Garuds, they have several weapons to choose from according to their mission and it's their prerogative to choose which platform they find suitable. Also, show me one source which says that they are ditching their Tavors.
For the last time, INSAS as rifle platform will be replaced and this is certain.

 

[vishnugupt]

I believe you are wrong as the trials conducted are not wet refueling trials, instead, Tejas just docked with a probe on the IL78 and no actual fuel was passed between them. Also, Gsh 23 gun trials still haven't begun.
With regards to Garuds, they have several weapons to choose from according to their mission and it's their prerogative to choose which platform they find suitable. Also, show me one source which says that they are ditching their Tavors.
For the last time, INSAS as rifle platform will be replaced and this is certain.

You r right that it was only a dry contact and actual fuel refueling will follow soon but if you have heard that Gun trial had de linked with FOC part it is a more of MK1a requirement.
With regards of Garud, then tell me why Indian force requires every weapon on earth, what Favor offered which we didn't have before? We all have seen USA army used only 2 or 3 type of rifle during Afghanistan and Iraq war, including sniper rifle.
I think u remember this pic

 

[patriots]

It was LSP8. But the biggest news is that the simulations and actual test results were a close match. Testing will continue today and throughout this week thanks to that positive resul

by ir from brf

 

[Jackd]

You r right that it was only a dry contact and actual fuel refueling will follow soon but if you have heard that Gun trial had de linked with FOC part it is a more of MK1a requirement.
With regards of Garud, then tell me why Indian force requires every weapon on earth, what Favor offered which we didn't have before? We all have seen USA army used only 2 or 3 type of rifle during Afghanistan and Iraq war, including sniper rifle.
I think u remember this pic
View attachment 27517

You are mentioning US Army whereas we are talkin about Garuds, which is a special force of IAF. Special forces from all over the world use different weapons which suit their mission profile and bringing the proverbial knife to a firefight is fatal. The list of weapons used by seal team 6 :

• HK 416 - 5.56 x 45mm carbine
• M4a1 - 5.56 x 45mm carbine
• MK13 CQBR - 5.56 x 45mm carbine.
• HK MP7 - 4.6 x 30mm sub machine gun
• MK46 - 5.56 x 45mm machine gun
• MK48 - 7.62 x 51mm machine gun
• Sig Sauer P226R - 9mm pistol
• HK45CT - .45 ACP pistol
• Sig Sauer P239 - sub-compact 9mm pistol
• Pirate Gun - modified M79 grenade launcher

SEAL Team Six - Snipers
DEVGRU snipers may carry:

• MK 12 SPR - 5.56 x 45mm sniper rifle
• MK 11 - 7.26 x51mm medium sniper rifle
• MK-13 - a Remington 700 variant firing .300 win mag
• McMillan TAC-338 - sniper rifle firing the deadly .338 Lapua Magnum round
• MK 15 - long range bolt-action sniper rifle chambered in .50 BMG
• M82 - .50 caliber extreme long range anti-material rifle

Source : http://www.americanspecialops.com/devgru/weapons/

What do you want to prove by this photo? Did I say they are not using AKs (if you haven't forgotten, Aks are 'foreign maal' too)?
NSG also uses several weapons in addition to MP5, where is the fault in that?

 

[vishnugupt]

You are mentioning US Army whereas we are talkin about Garuds, which is a special force of IAF. Special forces from all over the world use different weapons which suit their mission profile and bringing the proverbial knife to a firefight is fatal. The list of weapons used by seal team 6 :

• HK 416 - 5.56 x 45mm carbine
• M4a1 - 5.56 x 45mm carbine
• MK13 CQBR - 5.56 x 45mm carbine.
• HK MP7 - 4.6 x 30mm sub machine gun
• MK46 - 5.56 x 45mm machine gun
• MK48 - 7.62 x 51mm machine gun
• Sig Sauer P226R - 9mm pistol
• HK45CT - .45 ACP pistol
• Sig Sauer P239 - sub-compact 9mm pistol
• Pirate Gun - modified M79 grenade launcher

SEAL Team Six - Snipers
DEVGRU snipers may carry:

• MK 12 SPR - 5.56 x 45mm sniper rifle
• MK 11 - 7.26 x51mm medium sniper rifle
• MK-13 - a Remington 700 variant firing .300 win mag
• McMillan TAC-338 - sniper rifle firing the deadly .338 Lapua Magnum round
• MK 15 - long range bolt-action sniper rifle chambered in .50 BMG
• M82 - .50 caliber extreme long range anti-material rifle

i Quoted USA because they fought in very different terrain with same weapons so did Russia in Syrea
these are all indigenous weapons and variant of a single-family unlike our Arms forces which buy weapons from each country by giving shoddy requirements

What do you want to prove by this photo? Did I say they are not using AKs (if you haven't forgotten, Aks are 'foreign maal' too)?

this is the original point why need foreign maal every time?? Indian weapons are keep on being rejected not because they failled in difficult terrain or situation but Arms forces simply changed requirements while relaxing requirements for foreign maal and these foreign maal proved ineffective in operations

 

[Jackd]

i Quoted USA because they fought in very different terrain with same weapons so did Russia in Syrea
these are all indigenous weapons and variant of a single-family unlike our Arms forces which buy weapons from each country by giving shoddy requirements

this is the original point why need foreign maal every time?? Indian weapons are keep on being rejected not because they failled in difficult terrain or situation but Arms forces simply changed requirements while relaxing requirements for foreign maal and these foreign maal proved ineffective in operations

If you say Army is corrupt and they just order foreign maal without checking whether it is effective or not, then we will take the example of CAPF and police forces as they are not linked to army. Here: https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www....-to-get-36000-modern-ak-assault-rifles/280067

You know it is easy to criticise other when you are a keyboard soldier but for the last time, let's leave this stuff to the professionals. If the above mentioned weapons were so ineffective, then we would have seen casualty numbers in the thousands and the soldiers would have certainly said something about this. But, we all know that this is not the case. Also, have you ever seen an ordnance factory, if not then please check their sorry state and see for yourself what our poor soldiers are getting. If our indigenous weapons (small arms -INSAS) were so good, why are our own security agencies (police, capf and armed forces) abandoning them.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

If our indigenous weapons (small arms -INSAS) were so good, why are our own security agencies (police, capf and armed forces) abandoning them

Who abandoned INSAS in the first place? Is this some retarded media hypothesis or ground level reality?

 

[Jackd]

Who abandoned INSAS in the first place? Is this some retarded media hypothesis or ground level reality?

Situation on ground. Ain't no love for INSAS.

 

[vishnugupt]

If you say Army is corrupt and they just order foreign maal without checking whether it is effective or not, then we will take the example of CAPF and police forces as they are not linked to army. Here: https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www....-to-get-36000-modern-ak-assault-rifles/280067

You know it is easy to criticise other when you are a keyboard soldier but for the last time, let's leave this stuff to the professionals. If the above mentioned weapons were so ineffective, then we would have seen casualty numbers in the thousands and the soldiers would have certainly said something about this. But, we all know that this is not the case. Also, have you ever seen an ordnance factory, if not then please check their sorry state and see for yourself what our poor soldiers are getting. If our indigenous weapons (small arms -INSAS) were so good, why are our own security agencies (police, capf and armed forces) abandoning them.

Dost, I have never ever in my life criticise Arms forces but only some bad kickback guys who make the decision what to buy and why ?? neither I question your intention we all want the same thing but we keep on bringing the issues for an attention. DRDO/OFB/HAL is responsible for many fallacies but who is responsible for the death of Garud commandos who were given world best helmets and got killed in the initial part of the battle. same goes to may more products Arjun brought with air condition. Platus brought without maintenance contract.keep on upgrading jaguars since its birth. same happening with almost every foreign maal

 

[vishnugupt]

Situation on ground. Ain't no love for INSAS.

Again, I am telling its not INSAS is faulty but our coffee lover generals have changed requirements.

 

[Jackd]

Sirji, the decision to buy involves a lot of steps and many people are involved in it. One person is not responsible for it, likewise, civilians are a major part of the procurement process ( the joint secretary for procurement is a bloody civilian). When, there was a decision to buy Sypder for the army, it was scrapped in favour of akash, which proves that there are many people involved in this opaque acquisition process (considering akash is not cannisterised, thereby reducing mobility).

Also, the garuds have recently joined the anti terrorism crusade in Kashmir. It's a known fact that they are inexperienced as exercising is different from real life scenarios. Here is what the situation was( not saying this is fully true, but gives one a perspective)

Death of two elite Garud Commando during an encounter in Kashmir on Wednesday has once against exposed special commandos’ vulnerability, as they were shot in their first encounter in counter-insurgency operations. Involved Garud commandoes were first batch of Indian Air Force (IAF) commandos embedded with the Army for ‘live situational training’. This was second incident in which Garud suffered casualties. The first incident took place when terrorists attacked Pathankot airbase in January 2016 in which one Garud died.

The decision to impart ‘live situational training’ was taken in the aftermath of the terror attack on Pathankot Air Force station during which Garuds came under severe criticism.

A Court of Inquiry into the Pathankot attack conducted by Air Vice-Marshal Amit Dev besides noticing serious lapses in the base security as well as the handling of the incident, it had also noted that had the terrorists been pinned down by IAF Garud commandoes, the lives of the five Defence Security Corps personnel could have been saved.

Sources privy to the development claim that the report also faulted Garud Commandoes for their failure in handling the situation and said that they were ill prepared for the task. In view of it, Government decided that Garuds would be deployed in counter-insurgency operations with the Army in Jammu and Kashmir to gain operational experience.

 

[Jackd]

Again, I am telling its not INSAS is faulty but our coffee lover generals have changed requirements.

I am an army kid, which gives me an advantage of getting to know what the end users actually think about the platform. From what I have heard, INSAS is not a well regarded platform amongst end users. Just check what Nepal had to say about INSAS : In August 2005, after 43 soldiers were killed in a clash with Maoists, a Nepalese Army spokesman called the rifle substandard and their counter-insurgency operation would have been more efficient with better weapons ( even though they got the rifle with a 70% subsidy from India).
You can see from CT ops pics put up by @Unknowncommando 2 and you will hardly see anyone wielding an INSAS.