IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

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Brazil starts building Scorpene-class subs

Brazil starts building Scorpene-class subs

Brazil has started building four conventional submarines in preparation for developing technological capability to build a nuclear one with French help.

The Scorpene-class attack submarines are modeled after the original French-Spanish submersibles and their construction follows a 2009 agreement for extensive technology transfer enabling Brazil to replicate French components and plans.

"The merits of this partnership are technology transfer and a strategic alliance that will strengthen and advance the skills of our navy and industrial sector, making it more modern and capable of defending the country," said Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff.

"We seek nuclear propulsion only for defensive, never offensive, purposes."

Rousseff said the submarine construction program was a strategic issue for Brazil and a response to new defense requirements with vast hydrocarbon reserves discovered over the past few years and scattered offshore hundreds of miles from the shore.

Brazil has also set sights on becoming the lead defense manufacturer in South America, supplying neighbors and allies its products on easy financial terms that will guarantee the country diplomatic and political pre-eminence in the region.

The first of the four submarines is to be completed in 2016.

"Brazil is becoming part of a small group of countries which have the knowledge and technology to build submarines," Rousseff said.

"The capacity to produce submarines is a strategy for both defense and economic growth," she added, citing the export potential as Brazil strives to reduce dependence of commodity exports for its main earnings.

The Scorpene-class submarine consists of more than 36,000 components, which will be produced by 30 Brazilian companies, Rousseff said. Brazilian state defense industry estimates the venture will create at least 46,000 jobs. Work on the nuclear submarine project is also in the early stage and it isn't clear how many experts have been deployed for that purpose. Brazil's first nuclear submarine is to enter service in 2023.

Brazil and France signed a $4.25 billion contract for the construction of the four enlarged S-BR diesel-electric submarines, originally designed by French DCN and the Spanish company Navantia and now by DCNS, the brand adopted by the former French Direction Technique des Constructions Navales and the Direction des Constructions Navales.

The Scorpene-class submarine is equipped with six 533-mm torpedo tubes for 18 torpedoes or SM.39 Exocet anti-ship missiles, or 30 mines in place of torpedoes.

It wasn't immediately clear if the S-BR submarine will be equipped with an air-independent propulsion system that allows a submarine to operate without the need to surface or use a snorkel to access atmospheric oxygen.

Rio de Janeiro is host to the 5th World Military Games with more than 5,000 athletes from 111 countries taking part. The event runs through July 24.
 

agentperry

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are these subs under construction or the metal still needs to cutted down???
 

ace009

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The fact is that french channels with their so called intellectual shows tend to justify these Arabs and North African behaviour towards French culture or society under the pretext of poverty,lack of opportunities horrifies me,but then its your country whatever happens there is your problem:)
Guys - are you really fighting? can we see some kicks and punches too? :D
 

Parthy

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Breach in dry dock could further delay Scorpene delivery

The Scorpene submarine project that is already three years behind schedule has received another setback after a massive breach and flooding in the Mazgaon Docks Limited (MDL) where the vessels are being constructed. Sources said the dry dock of the shipbuilding yard developed a breach, causing a massive flooding that submerged key components that were being manufactured.

A detailed assessment is awaited but initial estimates by the Navy indicate that the project could be delayed by two—three months. While efforts are being made to clear the dock and restore the working area, sea water is still accumulated, hampering work. Several components of the submarine were submerged by the intake of sea water, including sections of the hull that have already been fabricated.

"It is not a major setback. There could be a slight delay but in the long run we can make up on time lost," an official familiar with the incident said. This is the latest in a series of setbacks for the submarine project that was inked in 2005 after a record Rs 18,000 crore deal with French firm DCNS to manufacture six vessels in India.


According to the contract, the first submarine was to be delivered by December 2012, followed by one submarine a year so that the entire fleet would be inducted by 2017. However, the project underwent a major delay due to initial teething problems in absorbing the technology and creating of infrastructure at MDL. DCNS also came under flak by the CAG that said in a report that it was given undue favour and concession for the contract by the government.


The first submarine is now scheduled to be delivered only by the second half of 2015, resulting in a three-year delay in the project. While the quantum of delay due to the flooding of the dry dock is yet to be finalised, any more delays in the project will come as bad news for the Navy that is already struggling with a depleted submarine fleet.

The effective submarine strength has drastically come down to only 14 boats after a series of boats were retired after achieving the end of their service life. However, the effective strength at any given time is estimated to be around nine due to maintenance and upgrade issues.

The Navy has already initiated a process to procure six new next generation submarines that will be equipped with Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) to give them longer endurance but a tender is yet to be issued.



Breach in dry dock could further delay Scorpene delivery - Indian Express
 

nrj

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Looking at current situation, it'll be wise to award P75-I contract to MDL/DCNS for Scorpene. MDL can setup second line for production. Surely DCNS can convince IN for required radiated noise levels in frequency band of 30 hz to 10000hz.

Going after completely new design can turn into another nightmare. More importantly IN will be getting its units within equal interval of 7-8months starting 2015.

For P75-II, we can look into Amur 1650 or S1000.
 

Armand2REP

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DCNS has already won the +3 contract option, IDK if that is called P75-I? P75-II will most likely be a nuclear Scorpene like Brasil is opting for. IN doesn't have time for MDL to "absorb" technology from other vendors so France is the only real option.
 

nrj

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Yeah France is maybe the strongest option but where would the construction take place?

Inner news is that original plan to to build 2 at MDL, 3 overseas & 1 at Vishakapattnam (total 6 P75-I) is scrapped. And independent committee of 2-3 gentlemen is setup to provide final but most viable option.
 

Armand2REP

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The goal is to build as many in India as possible. If they need a couple built at DCNS it can be arranged. By the end of the Scorpene line, MDL will be well equipped to pump out more subs at expedited rates.
 

Galaxy

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DCNS has already won the +3 contract option, IDK if that is called P75-I? P75-II will most likely be a nuclear Scorpene like Brasil is opting for. IN doesn't have time for MDL to "absorb" technology from other vendors so France is the only real option.
I don't think so. :nono::nono:

We will be buying 6 Amur 1650 submarine, :russia:
4 San Antonio class LPD, :usa:
126+63 Eurofighter Typhoon. :uk::italy::germany:
Even we are not buying 3 more Scorpene but 4 Type 214 submarine in same price. :germany:

No offence but France only think of money and they don't deliver on time. :laugh::laugh:
 
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nrj

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The goal is to build as many in India as possible. If they need a couple built at DCNS it can be arranged. By the end of the Scorpene line, MDL will be well equipped to pump out more subs at expedited rates.
Makes sense. Extending order will mean only paying extra amount over the current licence. Entire logistical & tech absorption challenges will be curtailed. MDL can setup another line. Can you shed some info on scorpene's noise levels at optimal speeds of 5-10knots?
 
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Armand2REP

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I don't think so. :nono::nono:
I don't think so. :nono::nono:

We will be buying 6 Marlin submarine, :france:
4 Mistral BPC, :france:
126+63 Rafale. :france:
Even we are buying 3 more Scorpene. :france:


No offence but DCN is becoming both India and Russia's preferred foreign naval supplier. :france:
 
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Galaxy

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I don't think so. :nono::nono:

We will be buying 6 Marlin submarine, :france:
4 Mistral BPC, :france:
126+63 Rafale. :france:
Even we are buying 3 more Scorpene. :france:


No offence but DCN is becoming both India and Russia's preferred foreign naval supplier. :france:
3 Scorpene was always possible, as we already have deal for 6. So, It was easy.

But I don't agree with Marlin, Mistral or Rafale.

Amur is most likely as per some news and rumour.
San Antonio is much better and bigger one. We need LPD and not anything else. Russian requirement was different.
Typhoon is superior than Rafale.

:tea::dancemasti:
 

Armand2REP

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3 Scorpene was always possible, as we already have deal for 6. So, It was easy.
It is easy because the evidence is in your face.

But I don't agree with Marlin, Mistral or Rafale.
India will buy next gen French subs because it doesn't have time to absorb ToT from another vendor. MDL is set up to build French subs so it will keep building them. What Russia buys from France so goes India so Mistral is a no brainier at best value for money. I have little faith in Rafale winning so who knows.

Amur is most likely as per some news and rumour.
Amur is nowhere close to offering operations much less a production line. It is fantasy rumour.

:tea::dancemasti:
 

nitesh

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Milestone for Scorpene submarine construction

The construction of six submarines under the Scorpene project, marred by constant delays and time overruns, has achieved a milestone with the Mumbai-based Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) successfully integrating the weapons of the system with the main structure of the underwater vessel.

Under the Rs18,798 crore contract with French firm DCNS, the MDL will be constructing six submarines under licence for the Indian Navy.

"At the end of the last month, we successfully integrated the torpedo launchers with the submarine's main structure. It is an achievement for us, as we have not done such a construction so far within the country," said MDL's chairman and managing director Vice Admiral (retd) HS Malhi here. "It is an achievement for the shipyard. "This integration takes nearly a couple of weeks, but with our precision work we could do it in two days," Malhi added.



The integration has been done in the first submarine and the second would follow suit soon. Earlier, the first of the six submarines was scheduled to be delivered by December next year and thereafter, one every year till December 2017.



But following a slew of issues like problems in absorption of complex technology, augmentation of MDL infrastructure and procurement of material, the delivery date of the first submarine was pushed back to the second half of the 2015.



"The construction work on all the six submarines has begun and the first of them will be delivered by August 2015 and the last one in 2018.



That effectively makes it a delay of about a year," Malhi added. Scorpene submarine in 2015 would be the first submarine to have been inducted in the fleet of the Indian Navy after two decades. MDL, a public sector shipyard, has been undertaking a massive expansion of its infrastructure to compress the delivery schedule of the diesel-electric submarines.



A second workshop is under construction and would be ready by 2013 which would expedite the construction of the submarines.



From the fourth submarine onwards, this second line of construction will be functional and construction can takes place concurrently in two yards.



The project is pivotal for the Indian Navy which is facing dwindling numbers of its submarine. At present, the force, seeking to increase its influence beyond the Borders, has only 14 conventional submarines, with only two-third of it are operational at a given time.



By the time the Navy gets its first Scorpene submarine in 2015, only 10 of these will be functional.



Milestone for Scorpene submarine construction | idrw.org
 

Galaxy

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Navy-defence ministry logjam delays Scorpene submarine building programme


New Delhi, December 7, 2011




The Indian Navy is in dire need of more submarines. But the plan to build six next-generation underwater boats with foreign collaboration, which has been in the works for long, is stuck in the labyrinth of the bureaucratic muddle.

Project 75 India, under which the new submarines are to be built, has failed to take off as a number of critical issues regarding construction modalities are yet to be sorted out between the defence ministry and the navy.

The failure of the two sides to find common ground has further set back the 30-year submarine building programme, which was approved by India in 1999 to overhaul its ailing fleet.

While under Project 75 - another part of the programme - a periodic delivery of the French Scorpene submarines (which are being constructed by Mumbai's Mazagon Dock Limited) should have already begun, the first of the lot will not be ready for induction before 2015. The final one is expected to be finished by 2020.

What this means is that for now, the navy will have to make do with its ageing fleet comprising 10 Russian Kiloclass and four German HDW submarines. The prospect raises serious security concerns as India's two main adversaries, Pakistan and China, boast of a fairly wellequipped fleet.

While Pakistan has French Augusta 90B conventional submarines, China is armed with nuclear submarines capable of firing ballistic missiles.



Consequently, the navy is treading a cautious path as it doesn't want to worsen the situation and hopes that the construction modalities for Project 75 India would soon be sorted out and bids invited from the foreign contractors for the same.

The project is crucial for the navy bosses because it is their last chance to source foreign expertise, as the next batch of submarines will be built completely indigenously.

The navy is counting on foreign help to master technologies such as missile launch capability and air independent propulsion (AIP), among others.

In the arrangement finalised by the defence ministry for Project 75 India, three submarines were to be built at government owned Mazagon Dock Limited and one at the Hindustan Shipyard Limited.

The construction of the other two underwater boats will either be assigned to a private shipyard in the country or bought from abroad.

The differences in the approach to execute the project have led to the appointment of various committees to resolve the stalemate.

At the current pace, the request for proposal could be sent to the foreign contractors only by next year, which means that contracts will not be in place for another twothree years. As a result, the delivery will be delayed much beyond the 30-year deadline.

All major submarine makers have already responded to the request for information sent in August 2010.

Navy-defence ministry logjam delays Scorpene submarine building programme : North News - India Today
 

Galaxy

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Brazil Gets Its First Scorpene!

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 9, 2011

Yesterday at its Cherbourg centre DCNS started the last joining of sections of the first Scorpene submarine for Brazil. The welding of sections 3 and 4, a key step for assembling the forward part of the submarine, is a strong symbol in terms of technology transfer.






Chindits: Brazil Gets Its First Scorpene!


The hull of the first Brazil Scorpene was laid down at Cherbourg on 27 May 2010 and will be inducted by 2015 (Only 5 years).

Our 1st Scorpene laid down happened in Dec,2006 still 2015 end is the time when we will induct 1st. (10 years) :cool:
 
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charlyondfi

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Brazil Gets Its First Scorpene!
Chindits: Brazil Gets Its First Scorpene!

The hull of the first Brazil Scorpene was laid down at Cherbourg on 27 May 2010 and will be inducted by 2015 (Only 5 years).

Our 1st Scorpene laid down happened in Dec,2006 still 2015 end is the time when we will induct 1st. (10 years) :cool:
My dear Lord. Again, has the real cause been identified? The duration is double, means Brazil can complete two (or more), i.e. start over the whole building sequence again. Las t time someone (Armand? not sure) said it's ToT absorbing issue. But I assume you can try to separate ToT from manufacturing. Deliver 2 to 3 boats first, even you have to apply additional resources (French engineers?), considering the cost will rise nevertheless due to delay... ... anyone can correct me if wrong
 

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