High Speed Railway Corridor

[karn]

It is not only that . Japan offers full co operation from financing , technology co operation to developing human resources .
Chinese infra projects on the otherhand involve bringing over their own labour and offer turn key projects where the locals learn nothing .
(Ironically Chinese infra companies got all of their expertise from Japanese firms)
A case in point are the metro projects in the country . Japan helped make the Delhi metro after which the technology/human resources of this went over to almost all of the other metro projects .
The cost question can easily be answered by increasing local content in the HSR s.

 

[Rowdy]

It is not only that . Japan offers full co operation from financing , technology co operation to developing human resources .
Chinese infra projects on the otherhand involve bringing over their own labour and offer turn key projects where the locals learn nothing .
(Ironically Chinese infra companies got all of their expertise from Japanese firms)
A case in point are the metro projects in the country . Japan helped make the Delhi metro after which the technology/human resources of this went over to almost all of the other metro projects .
The cost question can easily be answered by increasing local content in the HSR s.

Agreed .... Japan>China

 

[SADAKHUSH]

It is India that wants HSR, of course it is India`s decision, but your nationalism lead you no where. China has bitter relationship with Japan, but we still need to source many electronic components from them out of economic rationale. It is India's decision to burn its good cash tthat could have been used for other more needed infrastructure or put it to good use.

I will always for the best interest of my Bharatvarsh and do not give a damn what people call it. We are open for business on our own terms just the way China does to multinationals from other countries forcing them to disclose proprietary knowledge and as well as do not allow 100% ownership of business in China. So you tell me who is more "Nationalist" Chinese or Indians?

 

[cobra commando]

12 global companies in race to be part of PM Modi's pet Diamond Quadrilateral bullet train project - The Economic Times

 

[archie]

The grand plan could be from Japan.. Final implimentation will still be in India and by the time the full project is complete you will see its more indian than any other means .. Further to that aspect An Average Indian Train trveller is way of an International Train traveller. this comes from the types of luggage to how much luggage is carried .. On the routes where this project is first going to be implemented oversised luggage is the norm ... In this aspect Chinese nor Japanese nor any international HSR work.. it needs heavy customization

It would be intresting to see how the implementation is going to be and how its going to evolve .. I Do expect a big change in the Average Indian Railway traveller (for the better)

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Having seen operation of fast trains in Europe, I think they do not make sense. In terms of price, they are the same as flight tickets. Actually low cost airlines beat flights by big margin.

Given that fast trains need totally different tracks and completely new infrastructure, I am not sure it is best value for money. In any case, fast trains make sense below 800km because for distance above 800km, air travel beats it both in terms of time and money. So, now the question is should we upgrade existing infrastructure to run trains at 150kmph or introduce bullet trains with 250kmph.

I think cost-benefit analysis would point towards developing existing infrastructure. In any case given the distance between metros on golden quadrilateral >1000km, these projects would be unnecessary waste.

 

[archie]

Having seen operation of fast trains in Europe, I think they do not make sense. In terms of price, they are the same as flight tickets. Actually low cost airlines beat flights by big margin.

Given that fast trains need totally different tracks and completely new infrastructure, I am not sure it is best value for money. In any case, fast trains make sense below 800km because for distance above 800km, air travel beats it both in terms of time and money. So, now the question is should we upgrade existing infrastructure to run trains at 150kmph or introduce bullet trains with 250kmph.

I think cost-benefit analysis would point towards developing existing infrastructure. In any case given the distance between metros on golden quadrilateral >1000km, these projects would be unnecessary waste.

Actually Trains will be way more cost effective given the volume of passengers.. Europe does not have the distances that we have within one country. In an Indian context it is imparentive we have faster common man connections atleast with major population centers. having to sit in a train for 2 days is a big waste in todays fast moving world . Faster train networks will bring majo centers under 18 hrs which would be more acceptable timeframe for common man..

Cost and ROI for railways will be atleast 20 years for an Airline it would be less than that and running cost would be higher than Railways.. futher Airlines pricing will be at the mercy of crude oil imports..
India needs both means of transportation and High speed rail will be a poor mans bulk transportation

Fast transportation would also introduce Comute working(under 150Km) an hour and a half travel one way is mostly a norm in many Europian countries

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Actually Trains will be way more cost effective given the volume of passengers.. Europe does not have the distances that we have within one country. In an Indian context it is imparentive we have faster common man connections atleast with major population centers. having to sit in a train for 2 days is a big waste in todays fast moving world . Faster train networks will bring majo centers under 18 hrs which would be more acceptable timeframe for common man..

Cost and ROI for railways will be atleast 20 years for an Airline it would be less than that and running cost would be higher than Railways.. futher Airlines pricing will be at the mercy of crude oil imports..
India needs both means of transportation and High speed rail will be a poor mans bulk transportation

Fast transportation would also introduce Comute working(under 150Km) an hour and a half travel one way is mostly a norm in many Europian countries

You are actually supporting my argument. European distances are small and hence value for high speed travel.

Who sits for 2 days in the train? People who cannot afford a flight i.e. people who cannot afford 4000-5000rs going from Delhi to Bangalore. Now how does a fast train helps if its cost remain ~5000rs? I do not have problem with fast trains but with bullet trains that need dedicated tracks. And given the cost of bullet trains they cannot be poor man's bulk transportation.

I don't know how you came up with cost and ROI figures. Fuel costs are substantial part of flight traffic but that would be true for any transportation medium.

 

[Sameet Pattnaik]

if land acquisation bill is passed it might come to 1 to 2 years I feel !

 

[Anikastha]

High speed bullet trains..................c'mon first of all take care of present situation of railways. Garbage lies on tracks , accidents etc plz .We should not be in hurry to get bullet trains.......
This my opinion...

 

[Rowdy]

High speed bullet trains..................c'mon first of all take care of present situation of railways. Garbage lies on tracks , accidents etc plz .We should not be in hurry to get bullet trains.......
This my opinion...

High speed rails will share almost nothing with the current India Rail system. maybe a dedicated platform at a station but nothing else.
and development of both must be side by side. It takes years to make these systems. and we simply cannot wait for all railway problems to be solved first. Hopefully the bullet train will reduce some load on our system too. like the freight corridor.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

High speed rails will share almost nothing with the current India Rail system. maybe a dedicated platform at a station but nothing else.
and development of both must be side by side. It takes years to make these systems. and we simply cannot wait for all railway problems to be solved first. Hopefully the bullet train will reduce some load on our system too. like the freight corridor.

And @Rowdy will pay for it!!

 

[Rowdy]

And @Rowdy will pay for it!!

LoL .... JICA???

 

[archie]

You are actually supporting my argument. European distances are small and hence value for high speed travel.

Who sits for 2 days in the train? People who cannot afford a flight i.e. people who cannot afford 4000-5000rs going from Delhi to Bangalore. Now how does a fast train helps if its cost remain ~5000rs? I do not have problem with fast trains but with bullet trains that need dedicated tracks. And given the cost of bullet trains they cannot be poor man's bulk transportation.

I don't know how you came up with cost and ROI figures. Fuel costs are substantial part of flight traffic but that would be true for any transportation medium.

Distances in Europe actually done support Trains let alone high speed.. The cost of trains in High naturaly airlines become a viable alternative

In India High speed rails are not going to be Rs5000 thats full of crap..

Railways in India already own a lot of land in genral ROI would involve recovering cost(fuel + administraion+ depriciation of rolling stock) + cost of infrastructue(would be low.. this will usally be about 20 years .. the current train sets we use is atlest 10 years old.. you can find out when a coach has been made on a huge mark on the ends of the coaches ..

On the scale for India we need to impove the average speed wich is almost 40-50 Km/hr range to 80-100 Km/hr Range
High speed have that at aound 150-160km/hr range .. I would suspect High speed rail would probably end up 30% more than current rajdani fares not more than that .. Just the Volume India has would Ensure that(passengers travelled /unit distance/day)

 

[PredictablyMalicious]

I don't see a practical benefit to bullet trains. Should trains be faster than they currently are? Absolutely. Do they need to reach 500 km/hr speeds? It isn't clear why they do. Aviation industry is a mature one and gets passengers from point a to point b with relative convenience, stellar safety record, and increasingly cheap cost. Why not avail benefits of existing air transport infrastructure? As far as I know, bullet train in China hasn't exactly been the success story CCP had hoped it would be. Bullet trains in China are operating at a loss.

 

[pmaitra]

I don't see a practical benefit to bullet trains. Should trains be faster than they currently are? Absolutely. Do they need to reach 500 km/hr speeds? It isn't clear why they do. Aviation industry is a mature one and gets passengers from point a to point b with relative convenience, stellar safety record, and increasingly cheap cost. Why not avail benefits of existing air transport infrastructure? As far as I know, bullet train in China hasn't exactly been the success story CCP had hoped it would be. Bullet trains in China are operating at a loss.

Ah, so A.H. is no longer A.H., but P.M.. Why this change of heart?

Coming back to point, what we need is max speed of 250 kmph and an average speed around 200 kmph. We have already achieved average speed of above 150 kmph, and it is called a semi-bullet train because bullet trains have a baseline speed of 300 kmph. An average speed of 200 kmph will not make the implementation prohibitively expensive and it will also shorten travel times.

 

[mayfair]

The so-called bullet trains will work viably if

a. Distances are in the range of 500-600 km that translate into effective journey time of 2-2.5 hours

and

b. There is substantial business traffic to support allow for high occupancy.

In other words,they will be profitable between cities where one may expect a large number of travellers to frequently move back and forth preferably in the same day.

Now which cities in India can sufficiently satisfy this criteria?

 

[Bangalorean]

The so-called bullet trains will work viably if

a. Distances are in the range of 500-600 km that translate into effective journey time of 2-2.5 hours

and

b. There is substantial business traffic to support allow for high occupancy.

In other words,they will be profitable between cities where one may expect a large number of travellers to frequently move back and forth preferably in the same day.

Now which cities in India can sufficiently satisfy this criteria?

True, and I've always maintained that the following cities are a good combination:

1. Mumbai-Pune
2. Bangalore-Chennai
3. Mumbai-Ahmedabad
4. Delhi-Chandigarh (maybe, not sure)

These routes will see massive traffic and 100% occupancy.

I am not sure if long distances like Bangalore-Delhi or Mumbai-Kolkata will see good occupancy.

 

[mayfair]

True, and I've always maintained that the following cities are a good combination:

1. Mumbai-Pune
2. Bangalore-Chennai
3. Mumbai-Ahmedabad
4. Delhi-Chandigarh (maybe, not sure)

These routes will see massive traffic and 100% occupancy.

I am not sure if long distances like Bangalore-Delhi or Mumbai-Kolkata will see good occupancy.

Agree.

I would have added

1. Agra-Delhi-Jaipur to it, due to immense tourist potential. Could be an extension of the Delhi-Chandigarh-Amritsar route.
2. Bangalore-Hyderabad and Hyderabad-Chennai, but that will depend on how Telangana develops in the future.

 

[archie]

Ah, so A.H. is no longer A.H., but P.M.. Why this change of heart?

Coming back to point, what we need is max speed of 250 kmph and an average speed around 200 kmph. We have already achieved average speed of above 150 kmph, and it is called a semi-bullet train because bullet trains have a baseline speed of 300 kmph. An average speed of 200 kmph will not make the implementation prohibitively expensive and it will also shorten travel times.

Bullet Trains in Japan have clocked 450+ Km/hr(on Testing) .. Operaing average is 300 ish (not including stops) ..

Chinese Train system will operate on loss till it recovers the Investment(Any project will run on loss for several years on account of Depreciation of capital asset not Running cost which is diffrent)

Fastest train in India is Bhopad Delhi Shatabdi Though it has a peak speed of 150Km/hr its average is 90Km/Hr .. thats cause not all sections if the route and signal clearence is for high speed..

Making a high speed train investment does not mean you create tracks which a completely diffrent it only means you used better tracks and account for signalling system that allows sustanined high speed trains... this system is very much needed as this will also bring in High speed frieght movemnent (where most of the money is made for Indian Railways) its not always passengers ..