DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Samej Jangir]

I know difference between cruise missiles and ballistic missiles.. I know rockets are very inaccurate at long ranges. I did not meant that a long range rockets should be unguided it should have ins +gps. I even said equip pranash with ins + gps.
I think they have it not sure...
for rockets it does make sense to have 150+km range of they have ins+gps. You should see accuracy of Pakistan 400km rockets..

It will still be cheaper than other cruise missile. Because it won't have complex jet engine, fuel supply etc etc rather a mass produced solid fuel.. in a prolonged conflict this can be used in masses and will cost less can be used in more numbers at once..
Luckily those policy makers are not that dumb a"s like some are to not to put ins +gps on this long range rockets.. the new maheshwarastra 2 of 290km range will for sure have ins + gps...

I don't understand your obsession with cruise missiles. No one uses cruise missiles for short range. It is rockets vs solid fuel SRBM only. Bringing nonsensical comparison with cruise missiles just to make a point is ridiculous. Compare long range rockets strictly with SRBMs and not with cruise missiles if at all you want a logical conversation.

A guided rocket must not have high quality controllers and only have GPS or cheap INS (like mobile gyrometer, accelerometer) to be classified as rocket. Else it becomes a missile.

Guided rockets mainly use GPS guidance. They lack thrust vectoring and have low quality actuators that don't control the rockets completely. These rockets can be jammed by GPS jammers. A rocket guided with INS and having sophisticated actuators and controllers is a missile. If GPS guidance is used instead of INS but still having sophisticated controls, it is export quality missile. But still it is a missile.

The guided rockets are cheap because they use simple generic items with low quality controls. But they also lack accuracy over longer ranges. If one wants long range attacks beyond 150km, missile is the only logical option. You may misclassify a rocket as a missile to soothe your ego but it will be like calling a black skinned cow as a buffalo!

 

[patriots]

The alleged bmd system exported to Armenia
This luncher is made by tata advanced system s

 

[Blood+]

so warhead and range is by far a component of caliber you can only increase the range and warhead only to a certain extent with the same caliber
pinaka-214mm (80-90km range , 100kg warhead)
smerch-300mm (90-120km range , 253kg warhead) but the problem is smerch is still quiet unreliable in terms of accuracy
also by defination a missile is just a guided rocket
let say caliber (diameter) is 220 mm with 5 m length (pinaka) the volume of missile = 3m^3 volume
while a 300mm with 7 m length volume = 8m^3
see how pinaka has similar range but the volume is close to one third to that of smerch thus the warhead decreases sharply with the decrease in caliber

lets compare it to the fateh 2
caliber= 400mm (minimum imo) and length =7m (5m of the missile) volume= 14m^3 thats nearly twice of smerch carrying nearly same warhead too but at a lower trajectory so we can clearly say its a missile in name of rocket now put brahmos in an inlined launcher and call it a rocket vollah we have a pinaka mk10 with 800km range hehe .

either ways what i wanna tell is at very big ranges there is little difference between rocket and ballistic missile so having prahaar and pinaka with 200km range is okish at best cause pinaka would be dealing as much damage as prahaar given the accuracy is similar

plus with pralay we can have 500kg warhead at 500km range and 1000kg warhead at 150-200km range which would cover our needs much better
working on improving the accuracy of pinaka 200-300km varient would eventually make the need of prahaar negligible (imo)

Well, Brahmos isn't powered by a rocket motor, so you can't really call it a rocket. But yeah, I agree with the overall point you made.

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

The alleged bmd system exported to Armenia
This luncher is made by tata advanced system sView attachment 252500

i dont think so
https://x.com/DefenceDecode/status/1487326541566464003
a tweet of same pic in jan 2022
also its posted in tasl website so nope

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

Well, Brahmos isn't powered by a rocket motor, so you can't really call it a rocket. But yeah, I agree with the point you made.

there was a talk on installing a ramjet on a pinaka too dont know its current status ?

 

[Blood+]

there was a talk on installing a ramjet on a pinaka too dont know its current status ?

Since we're talking about Pinaka, I wonder why it never occurred to anyone in the Air Force or DRDO to turn it into an air-surface missile system like Rampage.

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

Since we're talking about Pinaka, I wonder why no one in the Air Force or DRDO ever thought of turning it into a air-surface missile system like Rampage.

cause no one tries to do something extra in public sector paychecks are bound to come so if no requirement exist no one bothers hehe we already has whap why no one thought of mounting a namica turret for testing or maybe something else

 

[Blood+]

cause no one tries to do something extra in public sector paychecks are bound to come so if no requirement exist no one bothers hehe we already has whap why no one thought of mounting a namica turret for testing or maybe something else

Exactly. I mean if we can come up with such ideas, then surely they can too, right?? Seriously, the powers that be should start following DFI ASAP, lol.

 

[Samej Jangir]

i dont think so
https://x.com/DefenceDecode/status/1487326541566464003
a tweet of same pic in jan 2022
also its posted in tasl website so nope

The ones sold to Armenia is likely Akash Air Defence (AAD), not Advanced air defence. It makes little sense to sell BMD system to Armenia that can intercept long range missiles when the enemy is nearby and there is no room for placing large number of radar networks to assess the incoming missiles. Also, Azerbaijan does not have any 300+ km missiles either

 

[ezsasa]

cause no one tries to do something extra in public sector paychecks are bound to come so if no requirement exist no one bothers hehe we already has whap why no one thought of mounting a namica turret for testing or maybe something else

if this is true, what explains rudram 1?

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Exactly. I mean if we can come up with such ideas, then surely they can too, right?? Seriously, the powers that be should start following DFI ASAP, lol.

People from forces do follow DFI although I am sure they laugh mostly on our antics

 

[Satish Sharma]

Spoiler: ..

I don't understand your obsession with cruise missiles. No one uses cruise missiles for short range. It is rockets vs solid fuel SRBM only. Bringing nonsensical comparison with cruise missiles just to make a point is ridiculous. Compare long range rockets strictly with SRBMs and not with cruise missiles if at all you want a logical conversation.

We don't posses any cheap missile to hit targets at ranges of 400kms like pakis,chinis have.. Every one has developed long ranges guided rockets be it usa, china even Pakistan.. we need a cheap option like them..

A guided rocket must not have high quality controllers and only have GPS or cheap INS (like mobile gyrometer, accelerometer) to be classified as rocket. Else it becomes a missile

.
A guided rockets with all this systems will still cost way less than missile which has a jet engine its own avionics fuel systems , if it does terrain skeeming it will cost even more. Point is everyone has it we should have it too. And it's cheap it has mass produced fuel. Not so expensive jet engine and other systems.. If china Pakistan can posses why should we..
I might be comparing it with cruise missile but it's because of cost..
And I'm not obsessed with cruise missiles tell me do we have cheap alternative like Chinese and pakis have ??

Guided rockets mainly use GPS guidance. They lack thrust vectoring and have low quality actuators that don't control the rockets completely. These rockets can be jammed by GPS jammers. A rocket guided with INS and having sophisticated actuators and controllers is a missile.

All right that's what we need to posses at long ranges of 400km.. and the fact is we are progressing in same way pinnaka upto 300km is under development. So you can rant anything you want.

If GPS guidance is used instead of INS but still having sophisticated controls, it is export quality missile. But still it is a missile.

The guided rockets are cheap because they use simple generic items with low quality controls. But they also lack accuracy over longer ranges. If one wants long range attacks beyond 150km, missile is the only logical option. You may misclassify a rocket as a missile to soothe your ego but it will be like calling a black skinned cow as a buffalo

Sorry mate if that would have been the case Pakistan, china, usa would have never developed long range rockets. And as I said long range pinaka is in development..
Which will posses ring laser gyro ins + gps...
We have seen atacms taking out s300s. In Ukraine..

 

[Blood+]

People from forces do follow DFI although I am sure they laugh mostly on our antics

Yeah but I doubt they follow the technical threads.

 

[Samej Jangir]

Spoiler: Spoiler

We don't posses any cheap missile to hit targets at ranges of 400kms like pakis,chinis have.. Every one has developed long ranges guided rockets be it usa, china even Pakistan.. we need a cheap option like them...

Have you heard of missiles like Prithvi 2, Prithvi 3, Pralay etc? They are the cheap SRBMs of India. They are likely cheaper than the long range rockets.

A guided rockets with all this systems will still cost way less than missile which has a jet engine its own avionics fuel systems , if it does terrain skeeming it will cost even more. Point is everyone has it we should have it too. And it's cheap it has mass produced fuel. Not so expensive jet engine and other systems.. If china Pakistan can posses why should we..
I might be comparing it with cruise missile but it's because of cost..
And I'm not obsessed with cruise missiles tell me do we have cheap alternative like Chinese and pakis have ??

You are obsessed with cruise missile like a mindless bot. Cruise missile is not cheaper than 300km SRBMs but only cheaper than 400+ km missiles. This is because the cost of make short ranges solid fuel missile is pretty low due to their low weight. Only when solid fuel missiles need to increase beyond 300-400km, they become huge and will need exponential fuel quantity. So, comparing short ranged missiles with cruise missiles is nothing but mindlessness and low IQ behaviour.

All right that's what we need to posses at long ranges of 400km.. and the fact is we are progressing in same way pinnaka upto 300km is under development. So you can rant anything you want.

Sorry mate if that would have been the case Pakistan, china, usa would have never developed long range rockets. And as I said long range pinaka is in development..
Which will posses ring laser gyro ins + gps...
We have seen atacms taking out s300s. In Ukraine...

Having short ranged missiles are smart as there are many cases where one needs to use conventional force and hence needs short ranged missiles which are small and carried over long ranges. But asking for 300km rockets is absurd. There is no evidence to say 300km rocket is cheaper than 300km Prithvi 2/Prithvi 3 missile.

India needs more Prithvi 2/Prithvi 3 missiles, dhanush missiles and pralay missiles for tactical use. But insisting on 300-400km rockets is simply being ridiculous.

Next time compare long range rockets with Prithvi 2/3 missiles only. If you compare 300km rockets with cruise missiles again, I will consider you as an unreasonable degenerate.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Spoiler: ..

Having short ranged missiles are smart as there are many cases where one needs to use conventional force and hence needs short ranged missiles which are small and carried over long ranges. But asking for 300km rockets is absurd. There is no evidence to say 300km rocket is cheaper than 300km Prithvi 2/Prithvi 3 missile.

India needs more Prithvi 2/Prithvi 3 missiles, dhanush missiles and pralay missiles for tactical use. But insisting on 300-400km rockets is simply being ridiculous.

Say what you want the leadership isn't that degenerate they are already working on 300km pinaka & gave green light to perhaps even longer range maheshwarastra 2...
Thing are going right opposite to what you are saying.

Next time compare long range rockets with Prithvi 2/3 missiles only. If you compare 300km rockets with cruise missiles again, I will consider you as an unreasonable degenerate.

Offcourse prithvi 2 are so mobile missile system who doesn't need liquid fuel.. weights only 4.4tons. I'm ending here from my side
Doesn't make sense..
Continue you're rant how swiftly you changed tone here..

Cruise missile is not cheaper than 300km SRBMs but only cheaper than 400+ km missiles.

What does this statement mean..
Are you dumb or what I'm the one who is insisting for 400km guided rockets because cruise missiles are costly...
Every one has made it be it china Paki usa has some 300km one. It's darn cheap need only gps aided inertial navigation system...

 

[patriots]

cause no one tries to do something extra in public sector paychecks are bound to come so if no requirement exist no one bothers hehe we already has whap why no one thought of mounting a namica turret for testing or maybe something else

They do things when service s ask them

 

[patriots]

The ones sold to Armenia is likely Akash Air Defence (AAD), not Advanced air defence. It makes little sense to sell BMD system to Armenia that can intercept long range missiles when the enemy is nearby and there is no room for placing large number of radar networks to assess the incoming missiles. Also, Azerbaijan does not have any 300+ km missiles either

"Zee Business learned from reliable sources that Armenia has acquired the Akash Air Defence System and 15 AAD Systems from BDL, with the transaction estimated to be valued between Rs 5,000 crore and Rs 6,000 crore."

EXCLUSIVE | Indian defence triumph: Bharat Dynamics secures major deal from Armenia amidst global achievements, say sources

Zee Business learned from reliable sources that Armenia has acquired the Akash Air Defence System and 15 AAD Systems from BDL, with the transaction estimated to be valued between Rs 5,000 crore and Rs 6,000 crore.

www.google.com

Might be true or not ,......let's see
Akash and aads are mentioned differently and the cost is different too....the source is from bdl , and bdl makes both of them..... recently we saw pdv integration rig

 

[new salem]

India’s Nuclear Future: SOOKSHMA Paves the Way for Thorium-Based Molten Salt Reactors – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

if this is true, what explains rudram 1?

iirc there was initially a requirement for anti radiation missile present and usa was also supposed to be competing with the agm88 missile so the project was sanctioned and rudram was made on the tech of astra and all
my point is that privates operate heavily on their own budget so increasing mods and so the moding of present missiles are fast cause the money is already present while drdo would have to sit on its lap while the money remains stuck in the files real development starts with the income of money