Digvijay: My Hero

[Oracle]

You spoke for me & maybe many others!

I strongly oppose this psychology & the cynicism growing everyday on this forum.

But, is there anything that can be done?

 

[Vyom]

Which question?

If the congress is stooping low, is the the fault of the Muslims?
Is congress surviving only on Muslim vote in the country?

The question that whether you are convinced that there is something like Hindu terrorism in the country akin to the ideologies on which some Muslims become terrorists. Since you did not answered that questions I inferred that you are convinced by the propaganda of the Congress that terrorism by Hindus (that is home grown terror) is a graver threat than terror emanating from across the border.

If you being educated and informed fall to that trap, imagine the Muslims oblivious of the kind of politics that the Congress plays.

 

[Yusuf]

.

Secondly you passionately argued about the Hindutva card of BJP - I say the raison d etre of that Hindutva card was the minority appeasement of the Congress which started with the ignominious Shah Bano case

I seriously wonder why a case like that of Shah Bano which did not effect Hindus at all actually trigger "Hindutva".

As for Tamil Nadu, they have novel ways to bribe. Free TVs, Free Sewing Machines. May be next will be washing machines and after that Nano cars.

 

[nrj]

But, is there anything that can be done?

There is quite a scope.

But even if people just read twice Yusuf's post I quoted, it'll help to keep the discussions healthy. Rest assured, everyone is entitled to their own views.

---

And I still can't figure out how can Digvijay be anyone's hero?

 

[Oracle]

There is quite a scope.

But even if people just read twice Yusuf's post I quoted, it'll help to keep the discussions healthy. Rest assured, everyone is entitled to their own views.

Well said mate!

And I still can't figure out how can Digvijay be anyone's hero?

He is my hero too. I am an egoist, insecure pr!ck.

 

[KS]

I seriously wonder why a case like that of Shah Bano which did not effect Hindus at all actually trigger "Hindutva".

Because there was a perception Muslims were appeased when a supreme court verdict (the final voice of law in the land) was being over ruled (subverted) at the behest of the Muslim clerics and it wasn't such a forward looking law either. As I said that was the perception. Secondly the oft overlooked case of the treatment of Pandits by the Kashmiris also triggered emotions. You may say that they were Kashmiris backed by Pakistanis but it was the Muslim identity that shone there first, rightly or wrongly.

The period of '84 - '91 was the worst period in the history of post-independence India and if I can invent a time machine those would be the years I would set back first.

As for Tamil Nadu, they have novel ways to bribe. Free TVs, Free Sewing Machines. May be next will be washing machines and after that Nano cars.

No Yusuf...we see that as a kind of Welfare state. Giving cash may be bribe but with increasing urbanization (TN being the most urbanized state in India) the people themselves are in need of those amenities and the govt providing them is a welcome move.The revenues are generated through other means and there is no over arching fiscal burden due to those schemes. Also other essential services like infra are not affected much due to fund allocation here and so we don't mind. Infact the Free TV scheme was welcomed by all in the state and the scheme was a huge success that reached even the bottom most in the ladder.

 

[Oracle]

No Yusuf...we see that as a kind of Welfare state. Giving cash may be bribe but with increasing urbanization (TN being the most urbanized state in India) the people themselves are in need of those amenities and the govt providing them is a welcome move.The revenues are generated through other means and there is no over arching fiscal burden due to those schemes. Also other essential services like infra are not affected much due to fund allocation here and so we don't mind. Infact the Free TV scheme was welcomed by all in the state and the scheme was a huge success that reached even the bottom most in the ladder.

What's the brand of the TV?

 

[Iamanidiot]

TN people took handsome amount of money from Karunanidhi but voted for Amma.

 

[KS]

What's the brand of the TV?

Some Korean brand. But its damn reliable and most of them are happy with the perfomance.

TN people took handsome amount of money from Karunanidhi but voted for Amma.

That did not happen in this elections as the Election Commissioner was exceptionally strict in this regard and even the paramilitary used were from the North.

 

[Iamanidiot]

DMK in power wanted a strict election comissioner for the elections this is news to me

 

[KS]

DMK in power wanted a strict election comissioner for the elections this is news to me

The Election Commission has enormous powers at its disposal which it used to the fullest to the welcome of all in Tamil Nadu.

DMK was not one bit happy about the Election Commissioner's orders/procedures but had to swallow the bitter pill because if it opposed anything Amma would tear into him.

I used to be a DMK supporter as it is perceived to be pro-Government employees but this see-saw in TN election every five years is a very welcome move. No one must get used to their @ss parked in Fort St.George.

 

[sant]

We have to make public speeches accountable. should punish heavily of it is not truth. any freedom comes with responsibility . No responsibility no freedom . Presently any DOG can bark anything Publicly. Best thing is to send Digvijay singh to mental hospital.

 

[smartindian]

he should be sent to Guantanamo bay ....

 

[mayfair]

Someone was daft earlier but now gone completely around the bend. Waiting for the next part of the saga -"Comical Ali-my idol".

 

[Param]

Because there was a perception Muslims were appeased when a supreme court verdict (the final voice of law in the land) was being over ruled (subverted) at the behest of the Muslim clerics and it wasn't such a forward looking law either. As I said that was the perception. Secondly the oft overlooked case of the treatment of Pandits by the Kashmiris also triggered emotions. You may say that they were Kashmiris backed by Pakistanis but it was the Muslim identity that shone there first, rightly or wrongly.

The period of '84 - '91 was the worst period in the history of post-independence India and if I can invent a time machine those would be the years I would set back first.



No Yusuf...we see that as a kind of Welfare state. Giving cash may be bribe but with increasing urbanization (TN being the most urbanized state in India) the people themselves are in need of those amenities and the govt providing them is a welcome move.The revenues are generated through other means and there is no over arching fiscal burden due to those schemes. Also other essential services like infra are not affected much due to fund allocation here and so we don't mind. Infact the Free TV scheme was welcomed by all in the state and the scheme was a huge success that reached even the bottom most in the ladder.

nope , that can turn people lazy.
Already there seems to be a labour shortage within our state and because of this there are an increasing number of Labourers coming from other states. This migration factor is already believed to have contributed to the unexpected growth in TN population even though fertility rate is lower than required.

When a daily wage earning labourer gets rice, tv, grinder, fan for free what is the incentive to work? Not everybody is like you or me( who want to prosper and are ready to strive for it). Some of the poorest of the poor seem to content with free stuff.

By next elections there should be a ban on Freebies.

 

[Archer]

Archer, you and I are going in circles. I have no doubts about where terror is coming from. That part is well understood and accepted.

I said if there is any other unit, that too should be investigated and nipped in the bud.

You say that's diversionary and the police is overstretched and barely capable of doing it's job. So right now we will leave this small group alone and concentrate only on the bigger one and wait till this small group becomes a monster and has blown out of proportion.

For Gods sake we need to fight terror, major/minor whatever. Look at the state of Pakistan. It creates groups for doing something and now they are bombing their own place day in day out.

Again we know what's happening around us, and the fight is also on against it. But surely you don't want to let go of any other potential terrorist organization.

yusuf, every thing in india is a potential, this or that. the first thing to do in events of such a nature is to *focus* and then, to *focus more and more*. one can't for political or idealogical reasons chase after every dog on the street which barks. that is what the so called indian anti-terror mechanism has been reduced to, thanks to this hindu terror joke.

you are not getting the point - look at the facts, india has one of the lowest police to population ratios in the world. and the police there are, are firmly third world, in terms of training, infrastructure and systemic problems. any politician can transfer a cop. corruption is endemic. now when a political party in power utilizes that to enrich itself, and the opposition picks up a convenient issue, out comes the hindu terror angle! see how its been used. each time, the opposition has attacked them for being weak on terror (and they are) the hindu terror bogey has been brought out. yet there is not a single conviction or a case that can stand up in court. to anyone who follows the issue with a skeptical eye, its clear its more of a political charade than one with a serious investigation, which can stand up in court. as long as it is a convenient stick to beat the opposition with, thanks to a radia-fied media, it will continue.

in the ordinary scheme of things, it would be just one more thing which goes in our country, with a handful of people suffering, rest of us going on unbothered, but whats happened is that this is detracting from the actual issue, which is that of facing the real terror from pak.

second, there is a very dangerous subplot to this. one never uses such terms such as "xyz terror" because it is giving people ideas and second, by demonizing folks you are inciting them further. this is why it is good to say SIMI/IM not muslim terror. but only when there is evidence and for these particular organizations, there is ample evidence

without stopping the pak supported attacks, you are giving vigilantes who are frustrated and feel victamized a reason - in other words, its creating a enemy out of thin air. today, all said and done, the hindu conservative parties will not pick up arms against the state. but keep pushing them, and tomorrow who knows, they will have people who leave and pick up arms because they think their parent organizations are weak, effete because they are trying to work within the indian political system despite having it stacked against them.

we already have the maoist problem which we are getting hammered by, a simi/im problem which we cannot face, and the last thing required is to cynically drive elements of the majority community to embrace vigilantism by constantly attacking them. this sort of thing never ends well. as i have said before, there is no shortage of hotheads in any developing, stress filled nation with economic, class, cultural divides. this entire charade being conducted for cynical purposes though has a very dangerous angle to it.

perhaps you are not aware of the past, but in the 80's, bhindranwale was propped up by INC against akalis. he became an absolute menace, mayhem and terror ensued, and ended in the horrible anti sikh riots where anger pent up by having these khalistani terrorists attack other religions, was channeled into misplaced rioting against innocent people, by the INC.
ULFA reportedly started out as a legitimate student driven protest movement to protest bangladeshi enroachers in assam. instead of coopting them or giving them a fair hearing, they were brutalized, and they ended up becoming a criminal, xenophobic movement which now attacks anyone and everyone.

the tamil tigers in sri lanka owe their origins to the disenfranchisement of the tamil community by a cynical GoSl.

point is there is no shortage of very dangerous movements which have started out because a section was deliberately targeted for political reasons. india has enough problems, last thing it needs is a real hindu terror movement started because a bunch of cynical politicians played that card too long. this business of naming imaginary enemies and creating them, is not good for india.

each time a simi/im attack occurs, and the so called NIA/ATS and what not are busy trying to find some dirt on political opponents instead of trying to find the real culprits who are doing attack after attack, the chances of vigilantism rise so much more. i am not going into this topic more as to how much these incompetents -IMO - have already given out way too much information for vigilantes to utilize by all sorts of leaks on how they 'cracked" xyz investigation by simi/im this that email etc and now they are shocked they cant find anything this time.

but all this politcal dramabazi should be stopped ASAP.

 

[dineshchaturvedi]

everyone want to feel intelligent, sometimes by saying things nobody agrees. That gives you satisfaction that you can see what others can't.

 

[ace009]

yusuf please dont be in denial about the scale of the problem. right now the terror from im and simi is 99.999% of the problem, the rest is barely hindu terror, even if that. all these platitudes are fine, but hindu terror didnt exist in an organized fashion till the simi attacks got out of hand. what you are saying is feel good stuff but will not detract from the reality that if the simi and im keep attacking hindus based on riots where even muslims killed hindus and vice versa, then even hindus will pick up arms.
understand this, the congress has a very cynical versted interest in making sure hindu terror rises, by doing nothing against simi and im so that hindus start attacking muslims. i am already seeing muslim leaders, instead of introspecting about simi and im as they had started doing, now preach about rss and mossad and hindu terror. seriously, what are they doing? dont they realize the congress is doing for a political game, and when push comes to shove and if hindu terror actuaally becomes a serious reality, they will be hurt?
the muslim community seems to be fairly blinkered to be honest. they think that any abuse against hindus is legitimate and by saying oh, we only abuse rss/bjp we are ok, we are not abusing hindus. on any muslim website now, or even amongst otherwise sane people i see abuse against brahmins, upper castes and all sorts of rubbish about hinduism being bad versus islam and how upper castes oppress others and bjp/rss is like this, and then the statement but we are not against hindus. what nonsense is this?
what business does any indian muslim have to attack hindu community groupings and then say "hey its ok". any muslim website on the net, and they are as communal as anything, and they have the gall to call bjp/rss names. i am shocked because, by these standards, bjp/rss are very tame. indian muslim community seems to think it can abuse any other religion but its ok and is just being secular. i wonder, are all these internet sites, of fanatics but they are of national papers, of otherwise educated muslims.

when will the muslim community realize that abuse of this sort is irritating many not just rss/bjp voters. when will they understand that just blaming hindus for attacks by simi/im is not done and they should introspect. another thing about riots. in riots both communities kill each other. in gujarat too, that happened. why is it that hindus have to bear some crux of the stupidity by both sides. all i am saying is this terror is by all sides stuff is very illogical. the congress may sell that line for some time, but then beware of that party and its antics. in 1984, this is how they played sikhs vs hindus by supporting bhindranwale and then later, the anti-sikh riots where they incited hindus to attack sikhs.

the worst thing for the indian muslim community will be to fall into this game. what happened in gujarat, to be honest, was not modi or anyone person. it happened because average gujarati hindus and muslims decided to attack each other. relations were bad because in preceding congress govts, minority criminal elements were deliberately propped up and polarization increased. add the historical issues in the state and it added to the tinderbox.

and that same thing will happen again because these ds types incite one community against the other, and then after setting the stage will watch the violence and do nothing. and common hindus and muslims will pay the prize as nation descends into rioting. the indian muslim community has to show a middle finger to this victimhood business, stop blaming rss/bjp, stop making vitriolic comments on hindu communities and clean up its own populace. if it does that, no vigilante group will arise and worsen the situation.

Actually Archer, I will disagree with you in this. "Hindu terror" did start as a response to "Muslim terror", but not in recent times. The origin of RSS and it's brand of violent Hindu ultra-nationalism goes way back to 1930s. Hedgewar started it, then his disciple Golwalkar took over and made the RSS "strong" - i.e. strong arm tactics. Not that there was no provocation. The All India Muslim League (AIML) had been doing it's version of strong arm politics since the early 1930s to secure a "muslim state" in the Indian subcontinent. RSS and Hindu Mahasabha became the response to that. The AIML did the "direct action day" on 16th August 1946 in Kolkata, Noakhali against the Hindus to "further" the cause of "Muslim India". Thousands of Hindus were killed. Hindu Mahasabha in resposne carried out the Bihar riots against the Muslim population, killing thousands of Muslims.
Now you might argue all this is anceint history, but it is not. The fire that was started by AIML and RSS/HM is burning to this day. Tit for Tat. Eye for an eye. Blood for blood. In India Muslims have felt deprived and marginalized since partition. The responsiblity to a large extent goes to RSS/ HM combined. The killing of Gandhi, the post partition riots etc had continued the venom. Today's communal riots and Islamic extremism are direct grandchildren of the poisons sown in Indian psyche of that time.
We Indians do blame Pakistanis for brutality on minorities. However, if we care to look at ourselves, in India we have not really done an ideal job either. Most of our minorities are marginalized since independence. In the name of empowering minorities, what goes on is vote bank politics. Caste-based, religion based, community based, language based, ethnicity based. You name it, we have it. We love to parrot "United we stand" - but in actuality it is united or divided - we are all failing.
We hindus are surely less vigilante in India as a majority than Muslims in Pakistan, but we are not angels either. We react in the same violent mindless ways that other majorities do in ethnically diverse countries and anyone who disagrees with our knee-jerk violent reactions are termed as "anti-India".
As for the Muslims in India - seems to me that their leaders are more interested in maintaining their "minority" rights than in actually integrating the Muslim masses with the rest of the country. They would rather create Jihadists than change the ills in the community.
Anyway, rant over - I do hope that forum members look into a mirror and try to see how they represent their community, their ethnicity and their religion and how it conflicts with their being representatives of their country and of the human race.

 

[Tshering22]

As for the Muslims in India - seems to me that their leaders are more interested in maintaining their "minority" rights than in actually integrating the Muslim masses with the rest of the country. They would rather create Jihadists than change the ills in the community.

This is about the only thing that you make sense in your comment. Other than that, your comment simply shows intense levels of escapism and nothing but direct hate for Hindu nationalists who as you yourself admit have been in response to Muslim obsession with maintaining their "we're different" status.

 

[sob]

This is about the only thing that you make sense in your comment. Other than that, your comment simply shows intense levels of escapism and nothing but direct hate for Hindu nationalists who as you yourself admit have been in response to Muslim obsession with maintaining their "we're different" status.

I really admire that you could read the whole post. I could not go beyond the second sentence.