Chinese Regional Jets & Airliners

[MiG-29SMT]

Yes. now because of 100% inflation rate it bans the export for feeding local people.

Can they do good banana republic good?

 

[rockdog]

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View attachment 209194

Dude, are we talking about tech, indutry and economics? Why u r so angry?

 

[MiG-29SMT]

western in Culture, then must hate western?

look hypocrite I know what you are trying to do, claaiming I derail the threat I did not since I showed to you Mexican companies and workers build parts for ARJ-21 and C919 and you went into your hypocrite attack claiming China has no poverty and you call us banana republics but you hide poverty in China and you do not mention poverty in China is as bad as people eat dogs and rats in your country, we have people in Mexico eating rats too, I know they are savages and poor too I do not deny it, but you hypocrite stop denying your goverment is a narco state selling fentanyl to Mexican narcos and you have poverty in China, so stop your hypocresy

poverty is the same in China or Mexico

no difference but it does not make we do have technoogy and we already build parts for many jet engines in fact used in C919

like this video shows

At FRISA Aerospace we have extensive experience in supplying rolled rings for critical components in aircraft engines.
So when you see a plane take off, you'll know that FRISA is there.

 

[rockdog]

look hypocrite I know what you are trying to do, claaiming I derail the threat I did not since I showed to you Mexican companies and workers build parts for ARJ-21 and C919 and you went into your hypocrite attack claiming China has no poverty and you call us banana republics but you hide poverty in China and you do not mention poverty in China is as bad as people eat dogs and rats in your country, we have people in Mexico eating rats too, I know they are savages and poor too I do not deny it, but you hypocrite stop denying your goverment is a narco state selling fentanyl to Mexican narcos and you have poverty in China, so stop your hypocresy

poverty is the same in China or Mexico
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View attachment 209199

no difference but it does not make we do have technoogy and we already build parts for many jet engines in fact used in C919

like this video shows

View attachment 209201
At FRISA Aerospace we have extensive experience in supplying rolled rings for critical components in aircraft engines.
So when you see a plane take off, you'll know that FRISA is there.
View attachment 209202
View attachment 209204

Then why Mexico.shitty contents in J20 thread?

J20 Stealth Fighter

For a change only talk about J-20. Chinese members must focus on posting relevant information. Looks like J-20 is facing some issues that no new updates are coming. Use report button than engaging off topic banter.

defenceforumindia.com

 

[jai jaganath]

Yeah. But would you and your family ever fly a Chinese made plane? I will not.
Most of the export stuff Chinese make is low to mid end goods with volume and cost considerations. C919 is an achievement but it is a vanity project like many things CCP does like HSR, space station etc.
If people don’t even buy a high end Chinese smartphone, do you expect people to buy China made planes with maintenance service from a CCP owned company?? You have drunk too much CCP lassi. Lol.

And I think India is largest market for Chinese phones from high end to cheap ones everything is being sold and brought here
Regarding Chinese airliners
We will see in future how much market if can capture
Anyway they can built things better than us in terms of quality bcoz of huge manufacturing ecosystem and experience

 

[SexyChineseLady]

And I think India is largest market for Chinese phones from high end to cheap ones everything is being sold and brought here
Regarding Chinese airliners
We will see in future how much market if can capture
Anyway they can built things better than us in terms of quality bcoz of huge manufacturing ecosystem and experience

Their future is guaranteed in the main market they are targeting. In fact, that market is so vast that there is actually no way COMAC can build enough to satisfy it.

Even if COMAC can successfully ramp up to 150 C919s a year by 2028, it would still take up to 2034/5 to just clear current orders of over 1000. And the Chinese market potential is over 8000 planes by 2040.

You cannot have better market conditions than that

As far as other countries for exports? They are good to have but not necessary unlike the MRJ in Japan that needed FAA approval for export and was cancelled when Mitsubishi cannot get it.

The second ARJ-21 has just been delivered to Indonesia just as their HSR is nearing service! And Russia is importing Chinese cars both ICE and EV in huge numbers. So I think there is always potential

 

[SexyChineseLady]

An ARJ-21 or C919 or A320neo assembled in Tianjin or 737 finished in Zhoushan can spawn so many ancillary businesses like chairs!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

China is able to certify aircraft for safety because of the data gathered in service of the ARJ-21 which had carried over five million passengers by 2022:

https://simpleflying.com/comac-arj21-5-millionth-passenger/

Being able to certify aircraft means you are not beholden to a foreign agency like FAA who can always deny you on political grounds (like what happened to the MRJ.)

 

[SexyChineseLady]

C919 safety video!

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Then why Mexico.shitty contents in J20 thread?

J20 Stealth Fighter

For a change only talk about J-20. Chinese members must focus on posting relevant information. Looks like J-20 is facing some issues that no new updates are coming. Use report button than engaging off topic banter.

defenceforumindia.com

easy you ask if we had jet engine design and we do, so much that CF-34 is now upgraded in Queretaro GE design and that is the engine used on ARJ-21, so you see the shitty Mexicans are designing engine parts for ARJ-21

The General Director of GEIQ commented "for years, I have firmly believed that the Mexican design is of quality and the proof is that our GEnx turbine is currently flying, which is developed in part by the talent of GEIQ's Mexican engineers and is the quietest, cleanest and most cost efficient turbine ever produced in the history of the commercial aviation industry."

GE Vernova Company News & Energy Industry- Related Articles

Read news articles related to GE Vernova, as well as energy industry news about a variety of topics including sustainability, grid solutions, and more.

www.ge.com

 

[MiG-29SMT]

China is able to certify aircraft for safety because of the data gathered in service of the ARJ-21 which had carried over five million passengers by 2022:

https://simpleflying.com/comac-arj21-5-millionth-passenger/

View attachment 209216

Being able to certify aircraft means you are not beholden to a foreign agency like FAA who can always deny you on political grounds (like what happened to the MRJ.)

Right here, in the center of Mexico, everything we had imagined impossible has become a reality.

GE Infrastructure Querétaro -which we call GEIQ- is the main advanced engineering center in the Latin American region and the largest for GE Aviation outside the US. Its mission is to improve the productivity of GE businesses for which it provides a wide range of services through world-class engineering solutions.

Here, around 1,500 mechanical, industrial, electrical, software, mechatronics and control systems engineers, as well as industrial designers, invest close to 4 million “brain hours” per year; Furthermore, since its opening in 1999, more than 50 patents have been developed.

On the other hand, during the last six years, at GE we have invested more than 20 million dollars in the expansion of the GEIQ facilities, increasing its competence and technology for making intelligent decisions, thus contributing to the solution of engineering challenges. through a strong portfolio of tests and analysis.

The commitment of this space is to promote the generation of value that can be sustained, in the long term, through: the selection and retention of the best technical talent; provided the necessary tools and skills to execute processes; developing and protecting intellectual property; and, of course, always improving the products.

We invite you to learn about the different GEIQ businesses:

GE Aviation

At GEIQ, more than 800 engineers are dedicated to the design and lifecycle support of the commercial aircraft engines that power the world. In fact, the center is responsible for all engineering aspects of GE Aviation's CF34 regional engines and owns the external modules and controls for the rest of the industry's fleet, leading from CFM56 to the newest LEAP engines and the GE9X engine, the world's largest engine, soon to enter service.

Furthermore, with cost-effectiveness and our customers in mind, we design navigation systems that help in landing operations, as well as reducing noise, flight time and fuel consumption. From here and every day, we monitor -remotely- thousands of aircraft engines, in each takeoff and landing, in any weather condition, altitude or sea level.

Within GEIQ Aviation, the Avionics team develops a wide variety of aviation systems and technologies, such as computing, interconnects, mission-critical military electronics and interfaces that integrate proprietary and third-party software solutions. This team develops the Flight Management Software that provides the Navigation and Guidance systems for multiple types of aircraft, as well as the Simulation and Model based tools that support these systems! In other words, the GEIQ Aviation team is contributing! -enormously- to invent the future of aviation!

Esto es GEIQ: ¡Asómbrate con todo lo que hacemos!

Justo aquí, en el centro de México, todo aquello que habíamos imaginado imposible se ha vuelto una realidad.

gereportslatinoamerica.com

Chengdu/Shanghai, China --June 28, 2016 - China's Chengdu Airlines, the launch customer of the first Chinese regional jet ARJ21-700 powered by GE's CF34-10A engines, held ceremonies in both Chengdu and Shanghai to celebrate its first commercial flight of the new aircraft. ARJ21-700 is the first indigenous Chinese regional jet developed and manufactured by Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, Ltd. (COMAC).

GE CF34-10A-powered ARJ21-700 enters commercial service with Chengdu Airlines | GE Aerospace News

www.geaerospace.com

we are helping to make ARJ-21 a safe aircraft GEIQ

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The ongoing discussion raised in Japan comparing the MRJ and C919 is a constant reminder of just how hard building airliners is!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

This Japanese article pointed to China's long ties with Airbus beginning in 1994 and especially its assembly line in Tianjin in 2008 as instrumental in helping China developing the human resources to absorb the technology. Obviously, the author is right and China has leveraged its market to move up the technology ladder:

 

[SexyChineseLady]

There are actually three major steps in China's road to the airliner industry:

1) the Y-10 and the WS-8 turbofan which began in the 1979s; although it was cancelled, it was a Boeing 707 sized plane that actually flew 130 times to places all over country and established the Shanghai Aircraft Manufacturing Company now known as COMAC,

2) The McDonnell Douglas MD-80 production license; Shanghai Aircraft was granted this license in 1985 and it was the key reason why the Y-10 was cancelled; the lesson learned from building the MD-80 went directly into the ARJ-21 which followed a similiar design (twin engines situated on the rear of the fuselage instead of the wings,

3) Airbus and the establishment of the Tianjin Assembly line; beginning with A319 and all the way to the A321neo, Tianjin had basically trained a workforce capable of working with the latest practices in the global industry; building modern Airbus models uplifted the entire Chinese aviation industry; the A320 obviously influenced the design of the C919

The next big milestone would be the C929 widebody. If they can pull this one off, China will lock in the Russian market in addition to its own.

 

[Azaad]

Seriously u any idea u are speaking I am talking about saras mk2 not mk1 which us flying and completed most of the certification but received no orders
After this post I am seriously doubting ur knowledge regarding this
Govt hasn't released funds for mk2
Coming to RTA u have no idea when project started it was basically 2010 and even shelved in 2015 then again revived and they will complete their so called project definition phase by year end and ask for fund which they think govt will provide looking at their abysmal history
So yeah pin me when u see saras or rta flying
And get some basic information regarding it

This is the status of the Saras Mk-2 . It's still in the stage of the final drawings being released following which it'd be taken up for production of prototype in 2024. I didn't see any issue related to funds in this article & it's barely a few months old .

India’s small aircraft mfg ambitions to take wings in 2024 with SARAS MK II prototypes - ET Infra

In an interaction with ET Infra in February at the Aero India event held at Yelahanka Air Force base in Bengaluru, Dr. Abhay A. Pashilkar, Director, CSIR-National Aerospace Laboratories, shared the current status of India's small aircraft programme, which is now getting closer to flight testing...

infra.economictimes.indiatimes.com

The RTA was first conceived in the early to mid 2000 as a JV with Russia following which it underwent a lot of avatars before reaching where it has now.

As far as releasing funds go it's the GoI's call whether they want NAL to go it alone or bring in a strategic collaborator in the project . Ideally we need NAL to gain technical expertise too which is why it's better NAL is merged in to HAL to create a separate civilian aerospace designer cum manufacturer on the lines of ADA + HAL.

Otherwise we ought to be prepared for the long haul on the lines of the Tejas except in this case there is no defined user sitting on NAL's head to get the job done which is why I thought merging the IAF's requirements of an MTA with the RTA & rope in someone like EMBRAER is prudent , which is pretty much what I asked for here .

Indian Economy: News and Discussion

My understanding is both Airbus and Boeing (and their governments) have absolutely declined to even discuss manufacturing in India like they do in China. There seems to be a collusion between the only two players in the world. And India badly needs airplanes in order to make the next level of...

defenceforumindia.com

As far as the Indian aerospace industry or ecosystem goes , the following post brilliantly captures our situation & this is equally true of any defence product / platform ecosystem in India & also extends to programs of dual use like the RTA & MTA or exclusively civilian programs too.

https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/ada-tejas-mark-ii-medium-weight-fighter.45058/post-2509482

As I've remarked before , at your age one doesn't expect you to be a storehouse of knowledge but at least you ought to be able to discern wheat from chaff. Then again for someone who goes about liking every Chinese member's post here , what can one expect.

I mean I may stated you were brain damaged being dropped on your head in your childhood as a joke earlier but now I'm not quite sure it was a joke .

 

[jai jaganath]

This is the status of the Saras Mk-2 . It's still in the stage of the final drawings being released following which it'd be taken up for production of prototype in 2024. I didn't see any issue related to funds in this article & it's barely a few months old .

India’s small aircraft mfg ambitions to take wings in 2024 with SARAS MK II prototypes - ET Infra

In an interaction with ET Infra in February at the Aero India event held at Yelahanka Air Force base in Bengaluru, Dr. Abhay A. Pashilkar, Director, CSIR-National Aerospace Laboratories, shared the current status of India's small aircraft programme, which is now getting closer to flight testing...

infra.economictimes.indiatimes.com

The RTA was first conceived in the early to mid 2000 as a JV with Russia following which it underwent a lot of avatars before reaching where it has now.

As far as releasing funds go it's the GoI's call whether they want NAL to go it alone or bring in a strategic collaborator in the project . Ideally we need NAL to gain technical expertise too which is why it's better NAL is merged in to HAL to create a separate civilian aerospace designer cum manufacturer on the lines of ADA + HAL.

Otherwise we ought to be prepared for the long haul on the lines of the Tejas except in this case there is no defined user sitting on NAL's head to get the job done which is why I thought merging the IAF's requirements of an MTA with the RTA & rope in someone like EMBRAER is prudent , which is pretty much what I asked for here .

Indian Economy: News and Discussion

My understanding is both Airbus and Boeing (and their governments) have absolutely declined to even discuss manufacturing in India like they do in China. There seems to be a collusion between the only two players in the world. And India badly needs airplanes in order to make the next level of...

defenceforumindia.com

As far as the Indian aerospace industry or ecosystem goes , the following post brilliantly captures our situation & this is equally true of any defence product / platform ecosystem in India & also extends to programs of dual use like the RTA & MTA or exclusively civilian programs too.

https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/ada-tejas-mark-ii-medium-weight-fighter.45058/post-2509482

As I've remarked before , at your age one doesn't expect you to be a storehouse of knowledge but at least you ought to be able to discern wheat from chaff. Then again for someone who goes about liking every Chinese member's post here , what can one expect.

I mean I may stated you were brain damaged being dropped on your head in your childhood as a joke earlier but now I'm not quite sure it was a joke .

First it was u who wrote saras mk2 flying
Coming to it again this project in mk1 stage was pulled by nda govt and also said that they have requirement of 140 aircrafts even signed mou for 15 saras in 2011 where is 15 ?
Again u seem to lack knowledge regarding mk2 here its not a recent project it was thought when they were developing mk1 in pusher configuration and wanted in turboprop configuration
Even if we take latest beginning of so-called project it's in 2018 even now these buffoons shout first prototype reveling will be on 2024 until now clearance is not given
It's not clear it has completed cdr
Even if clearance given 36 months for roll out
Are u serious u will see saras mk2 in near future
Coming to RTA it's design review being done by NAL so no question of collab here except regarding manufacturing
Serious bro you are defending it by saying they were associated with Russians since 2000 then until now nothing is in reality that itself speaks about failure
After spending decades behind Russia speaks about their incompetency
Even after Russian ditched them they were thinking of recovery recently
R u seriously believing them and their timelines
Whatever @MonaLazy ji has written is the exact reason why I say India will never get any civilian aircraft till eternity
Coming my age and intellectualism ig I can't argue with a guy who was claiming mk2 flying without reading full news that it's some mk2 tech flying in saras mk1 prototype

 

[Azaad]

First it was u who wrote saras mk2 flying
Coming to it again this project in mk1 stage was pulled by nda govt and also said that they have requirement of 140 aircrafts even signed mou for 15 saras in 2011 where is 15 ?
Again u seem to lack knowledge regarding mk2 here its not a recent project it was thought when they were developing mk1 in pusher configuration and wanted in turboprop configuration
Even if we take latest beginning of so-called project it's in 2018 even now these buffoons shout first prototype reveling will be on 2024 until now clearance is not given
It's not clear it has completed cdr
Even if clearance given 36 months for roll out
Are u serious u will see saras mk2 in near future
Coming to RTA it's design review being done by NAL so no question of collab here except regarding manufacturing
Serious bro you are defending it by saying they were associated with Russians since 2000 then until now nothing is in reality that itself speaks about failure
After spending decades behind Russia speaks about their incompetency
Even after Russian ditched them they were thinking of recovery recently
R u seriously believing them and their timelines
Whatever @MonaLazy ji has written is the exact reason why I say India will never get any civilian aircraft till eternity
Coming my age and intellectualism ig I can't argue with a guy who was claiming mk2 flying without reading full news that it's some mk2 tech flying in saras mk1 prototype

Right. Pls point out where did I write Saras Mk-2 is flying. The Saras program much like the RTA program underwent a lot of changes in the past 2 decades out of which design changes were one of the major changes except the RTA remained on paper & underwent changes on paper.

Without complete shopfloor drawings how do you proceed to prototype stage ? It's quite clear you don't come from a technical background & if you do & you're making statements like this you're not applying your mind coz you don't have any for reasons previously given . FYI - funding upto prototype stage has been provided . It's only on completion of shopfloor drawings that NAL can approach the GoI for further funds . That's the established procedure.

Ditto for CDR. There's no fixed customer for the NAL to do the CDR & issue a press release. The very fact that they've progressed to the shopfloor drawings stage means they've completed the CDR , which may well have been an internal process.

The original requirement of the RTA in JV with Russia didn't materialize the last time around for reasons detailed in this article. The previous time in the early to mid 90s ( the original project was for an LTA & conceived in the early 80's ) the requirement was for a light transport aircraft which eventually became the Saras , didn't materialize then due to the collapse of the SU & subsequent lack of funds with the Russian Federation for such an endeavour . Eventually negotiations picked up in the early to mid 2000s & after a lot of twists & turns culminated in this manner.

India-Russia Aircraft Deal Terminated

The Indo-Russian program to develop a new military transport aircraft has reportedly been cancelled.

thediplomat.com

 

[jai jaganath]

Right. Pls point out where did I write Saras Mk-2 is flying. The Saras program much like the RTA program underwent a lot of changes in the past 2 decades out of which design changes were one of the major changes except the RTA remained on paper & underwent changes on paper.

Without complete shopfloor drawings how do you proceed to prototype stage ? It's quite clear you don't come from a technical background & if you do & you're making statements like this you're not applying your mind coz you don't have any for reasons previously given . FYI - funding upto prototype stage has been provided . It's only on completion of shopfloor drawings that NAL can approach the GoI for further funds . That's the established procedure.

Ditto for CDR. There's no fixed customer for the NAL to do the CDR & issue a press release. The very fact that they've progressed to the shopfloor drawings stage means they've completed the CDR , which may well have been an internal process.

The original requirement of the RTA in JV with Russia didn't materialize the last time around for reasons detailed in this article. The previous time in the early to mid 90s ( the original project was for an LTA & conceived in the early 80's ) the requirement was for a light transport aircraft which eventually became the Saras , didn't materialize then due to the collapse of the SU & subsequent lack of funds with the Russian Federation for such an endeavour . Eventually negotiations picked up in the early to mid 2000s & after a lot of twists & turns culminated in this manner.

India-Russia Aircraft Deal Terminated

The Indo-Russian program to develop a new military transport aircraft has reportedly been cancelled.

thediplomat.com

When did I say they must run for funds before cdr
I said they make themselves jokers by giving timelines which they have never achieved
It might be their own fault or govt or any institutions fault point is they have failed and they are responsible
Saras mk2 and RTA funding is not provided till prototype it's provided till cdr post cdr they will receive funds for prototype
Now I don't know who is speaking about clarity
And which specifically aircraft are u speaking whose cdr us completed even for saras mk2 it's timeline is end of 2023
They haven't completed cdr of neither mk2 nor RTA
Especially RTA is at very nascent stage although being officially planned since 2000s
There is no point to bring Russia or Soviet Union as we lost time or trust blah blah
These guys were believing Russians for RTA in 2000s shows their seriousness
Point is they haven't completed saras mk1 successfully neither received 15 nos order nor 140 anticipated nos
Mk2 haven't completed cdr so no prototype building until then
RTA both 70 and 90 seater version still in nascent stage

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

That's why China is making cj1000 cj2000...

And if u don't control the capital, brand, IP of an engine. The 40% of value still not urs, even u have 10000 people working there. I can see Indian members don't feel that proud there are so many mobile factories in India and desperatedly to own ur own brand. Been a factory is not a bad business but nothing to be proud of, same applys to engine business.

China doesn’t have capital power anymore to spend on vanity projects. The thing is you are cutoff from global tech as well. So, the R&D gets even more expensive, while China’s spending power is shrinking. If the CCP cannot get the chinese economy going again (which it cannot due to poor demographics), competing with the west + Japan/Korea is all gone.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Chinese captial is helping Brazil in electric.

China's State Grid: Linking North and South of Brazil

State Grid helps Brazil harness power | english.scio.gov.cn

This is all in the past. China’s BRI loans are in serious trouble as most countries won’t pay them back resulting in further lowering of Chinese money power. You need to see the future of China, not the past.