Chinese Navy Destroyers

[Love Charger]

You totally confused with USSR with Russia. Russia follows EU design, similar to India. Chinese follow USN currently & EU design for export.China switching from USSR design to US design, IN always follows EU & PN also follows EU naval ship building designs.

Sir can you elaborate on this aspect, about IN following EU ship design trends

 

[johnj]

Sir can you elaborate on this aspect, about IN following EU ship design trends

EU prefer low vls, and give special importance to some features, giving unique capabilities, consider cost value, uses multiple types of vls if required, and multi role boats considering export. The major difference is vls, low vls compared to USN. IN follows UK/French/Italian designs - considering small/medium CBGs, less vls in ships, more comfort space for crews & give more importance to sea than land/air- defensive in nature with limited offensive capability if required. Also you can consider placement of multi function radar, which is similar to EU boats, & not like type55/52/USN boats. No RAM missiles, but sr-qr-sam, etc.

 

[Love Charger]

EU prefer low vls, and give special importance to some features, giving unique capabilities, consider cost value, uses multiple types of vls if required, and multi role boats considering export. The major difference is vls, low vls compared to USN. IN follows UK/French/Italian designs - considering small/medium CBGs, less vls in ships, more comfort space for crews & give more importance to sea than land/air- defensive in nature with limited offensive capability if required. Also you can consider placement of multi function radar, which is similar to EU boats, & not like type55/52/USN boats. No RAM missiles, but sr-qr-sam, etc.

Thye have less ships , and even lesser area to dominate or control sir, we have three large water bodies, on three sides .
When Britain had an empire they had 1000 warship navy with 16 inch battleships too .
Why are we following them ?
China has done right by adopting American concepts

 

[rockdog]

We are very worried
Even though india shifting to western standards is long drawn phenomena
The Sovietization of Indian military started in 70s ,due to cheapness and ofcourse liberal license manufacturing deals , along with long term payment programs.
But india continued to buy western tech from neutral nations like France and Britain
When it comes to artillery, india could have opted to go to Soviet calibre of 152 mm , but we didn't
We opted of 155 mm , for our tank projects we used 120 mm guns instead of 125 mm ones.
As far as our ballistic missile programs go. Germany and French were instrumental in providing us help initially.
Later on it is Isreal and own efforts.
Now , india has regularly ditched russian equipment many times. We bought artillery from USA and South Korea. We bought fighter aircrafts from France.
Along with our government companies setting up technical cooperation treaties with these nations .
Not only defense , we know rusian equipment and tech is not upto the mark even when other technical fields are considered.
Be it steel plants or oil rigs , western tech is inheritenly superior than Russia
@BON PLAN
So much so, when india did a airstrike in Pakistan in 2019, it was French mirage over newer Russian migs and sukhoi 30 mkis which IAF deployes

Very good analysis.

It's almost the same path PLAN went through.

China decided to go with western standard from 1980s China US honeymoon. Western gave lots of equipment and desgin concept and desgin standard to counter USSR before 1991.

The turbo engine was LM2500 for 051 destroyers and helicopters from French. The GJB Chinese military standard was highly took USA standard as reference and our commcation and command system purchased French for a long time, even the diesel engine we purchased from Germany for our 054 frigates. We never a fan of Soviet navy, just had no choice during 2000s, but 15 years ago we totally abandoned Russian equipment for our navy.

 

[johnj]

Thye have less ships , and even lesser area to dominate or control sir, we have three large water bodies, on three sides .
When Britain had an empire they had 1000 warship navy with 16 inch battleships too .
Why are we following them ?
China has done right by adopting American concepts

Money.
USA having more than 20 aircraft carriers, PLAN also considering more than 15 AC, IN only have two and waiting for new naval fighter jets for iac1.

 

[Love Charger]

Very good analysis.

It's almost the same path PLAN went through.

China decided to go with western standard from 1980s China US honeymoon. Western gave lots of equipment and desgin concept and desgin standard to counter USSR before 1991.

The turbo engine was LM2500 for 051 destroyers and helicopters from French. The GJB Chinese military standard was highly took USA standard as reference and our commcation and command system purchased French for a long time, even the diesel engine we purchased from Germany for our 054 frigates. We never a fan of Soviet navy, just had no choice during 2000s, but 15 years ago we totally abandoned Russian equipment for our navy.

You were about to standardize on 175 mm artillery, somehow it was deemed as a ridiculous idea by PLA and they opted for 155 mm like else

 

[Love Charger]

Very good analysis.

It's almost the same path PLAN went through.

China decided to go with western standard from 1980s China US honeymoon. Western gave lots of equipment and desgin concept and desgin standard to counter USSR before 1991.

The turbo engine was LM2500 for 051 destroyers and helicopters from French. The GJB Chinese military standard was highly took USA standard as reference and our commcation and command system purchased French for a long time, even the diesel engine we purchased from Germany for our 054 frigates. We never a fan of Soviet navy, just had no choice during 2000s, but 15 years ago we totally abandoned Russian equipment for our navy.

India is also replacing almost all rusisan tech with western ones , especially Israeli and well Israeli.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

You totally confused with USSR with Russia. Russia follows EU design, similar to India. Chinese follow USN currently & EU design for export.China switching from USSR design to US design, IN always follows EU & PN also follows EU naval ship building designs.

Actually that response is to the statement that Chinese systems are Russian inspirations. This is not the case at all since the design philosophies are completely different. You answered that as well.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

This is the basic modern Chinese navy design, typified by the Type 052D -- there are 25 of them built and another 5 building so that is a pretty good sample size

The key is the UVLS system provides for all weapons aside from point defense (HHQ-10 and CIWS.) This maximizes use of space on a ship and also standardizes construction even across classes. Type 055 is much larger than Type 052D but is armed with the same systems just larger loadouts.

So the result is a heavy loadout of missiles across the fleet.

The Type 052D between the 64-cell UVLS and the 24-round HHQ-10 has a total of 88 missiles to throw at all situations!

 

[jai jaganath]

India is also replacing almost all rusisan tech with western ones , especially Israeli and well Israeli.

Along with indigenous techs as well
Govt wants to take benefit of this situation and convince armed forces to incorporate indigenous tech in order to shape future mic

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Although both American and Chinese deploy UVLS systems, there is a huge difference -- Chinese VLS cells are about 300% larger in volume! They are designed to eventually carry ballistic missiles.

Loadout on American ships through the Mk41 and Mk57 are a bit more in total numbers but the cells are far smaller which constrain the size and effectiveness of missiles that can be carried.

K-VLS is the Korean VLS system. South Korea is moving away from the Mk41 and towards their own system with enlarged their cells but reducing total count.

 

[Love Charger]

Although both American and Chinese deploy UVLS systems, there is a huge difference -- Chinese VLS cells are about 300% larger in volume! They are designed to eventually carry ballistic missiles.

View attachment 183190

Loadout on American ships through the Mk41 and Mk57 are a bit more in total numbers but the cells are far smaller which constrain the size and effectiveness of missiles that can be carried.

K-VLS is the Korean VLS system. South Korea is moving away from the Mk41 and towards their own system with enlarged their cells but reducing total count.

A good girl from Europe approves the design
@rockdog. @shiphone

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The current Chinese surface fleet is four tiered:

Heavy Destroyers	Type 055	13000 tons	8 units
Destroyers	Type 052D	7500 tons	30 units
Frigates	Type 054A	4000 tons	40 units
Corvette	Type 056	1500 tons	72 units

Each tier is a weight class that determines range and capability. Corvettes are green water while frigate and destroyer classes are blue.

Listed in the chart are the main types but there are other earlier types in each category such as Type 052B, Type 052C, Type 051, Type 053 and Sovremny that support them.

 

[Super falcon]

Did any one heared about PLAN type 051 G Guided missile Destroyer just been upgraded few of them with HQ 16 long range surface to air missiles and YJ 21 Anti ship cruise missiles

Few of these will be decommissioned but G varients will serve up till 2035

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Did any one heared about PLAN type 051 G Guided missile Destroyer just been upgraded few of them with HQ 16 long range surface to air missiles and YJ 21 Anti ship cruise missiles

Few of these will be decommissioned but G varients will serve up till 2035

The Type 51Gs were actually decommisioned just two years ago. They were used as testbeds for a lot of the weapon systems that went into new Type 054A and Type 052B/C/Ds. There are no original 3900-ton Type 51 (including upgraded ones) left in service.

The upgraded 6100-ton Type 051B is the one that will remain in service.

It is an unique vessel with no sisters.

Before upgrade:

After (note VLS!):

 

[SexyChineseLady]

There are two 051Cs that should be nearing MLU in the coming years. It should be interesting how they'll refit those!

They have old revolver style VLS for SAMs!

 

[J20!]

Hot launch from a Type 055 UVLS

 

[SexyChineseLady]

 

[SexyChineseLady]

There are 25 Type 052Ds launched and another five more being built simultaneously in Dalian. So at least 30 that we know of. Thirty destroyers each with 88 (64 UVLS plus 24 HHQ-10 point defense) missiles! With quad packing in the large UVLS cells, the number of missiles could be over 100.

And there are modules for more in Shanghai. The latest variant is the Type 052DL:

 

[BON PLAN]

There are 25 Type 052Ds launched and another five more being built simultaneously in Dalian. So at least 30 that we know of. Thirty destroyers each with 88 (64 UVLS plus 24 HHQ-10 point defense) missiles! With quad packing in the large UVLS cells, the number of missiles could be over 100.

And there are modules for more in Shanghai. The latest variant is the Type 052DL:

View attachment 192844

View attachment 192845

Impressive.
For a so called peacefull nation it is preoccupant.