China Military News & Updates

shotgunner

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Taiwan's nuclear program was stopped by the US in the 70's after relations b/w China and the US opened up.
Yes. It is not a secret that Taiwan possessed nuclear weapon design. Like-wise, countries like Japan, SK, S Africa, some middle east nations and some Eurpoean countries have know-how to build nuclear weapons. It is the US that stop them from doing so, either by political pressure, military protection, sanction on essetial materials/equipments, etc.

On projectile tech, Taiwan has developed SRBM tech.
 

Known_Unknown

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So shotgunner, what are you saying? That India should not consider China to be a long term threat despite all the provocations from China? That China should continue to help India's enemies and build up its forces on the Macmahon line, and encircle India and block India's economic development by opposing loans from the Asian Development Bank and block India's nuclear exemption at the NSG etc, but India should just relax and do nothing about it?

If you're trying to justify China's help to Pak by using the "Cold War" argument, then what is the argument for blocking loans for the development of Arunachal Pradesh at the ADB or blocking the exemption for India at the NSG? It is China which has tried to hurt India at every opportunity it could, and you common Chinese folk have been so brainwashed and kept in the dark by the CCP propaganda that you're ready to excuse any of their behaviour by making up ridiculous arguments.

Even if China nukes India tomorrow, you will be saying that "India should forget it and co-operate with China". :rolleyes:
 

shotgunner

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It beats sending them over on fishing trawlers. :sarcastic:
Are you sure it beats fishing trawlers? Any link please?

If they are better than fishing trawlers, which probably then serve as backup plans. Does Russia have any backup plans to T-72/T-80 after what was seen on the Iraqi battlefield? I guess that's necessary to know what they beat.

Like-wise, how about Scud, Mig-29?

Do you have fishing trawlers in Russia too? What can beat them?
 
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ku why waste your time Hillary came and we have signed a bunch of military and defense pacts with USA; China will be put in check.
 

Yusuf

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Appreciate your thinking grey boy. But to an extent it's wishful as well.
Though I too think there will be no war between the two countries. But to think China will abandon Pakistan for India? I don't think so. China will fight India to the last Pakistani.
 

Known_Unknown

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Greyboy, if only your leaders thought that way. But I appreciate the sentiments. The thing is, I have a bunch of Chinese friends in real life, and they are very nice people, and most of them don't even know much about the Indo-China war and the aftermath. They don't know that their government has tried to hurt India at every opportunity, and that China is seen in India as a long term national security threat due to its aggressive actions.

This ignorance is no doubt due to the CCP's censorship of media in China. But I have hope that if and when in the future a democratic government comes to power in China and there is free flow of information, China will stop being hostile towards India and may even start real co-operation for a change.
 

Pintu

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Grey boy , I appreciate your thinking my friend , we have large Han Chinese community in Kolkata , who live here from early 18th Century, they are very friendly and thrives in Business (Restaurant and Shoe making mainly) , contributes greatly in City's economy, this thought is need of the hour.

Regards
 

shotgunner

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So shotgunner, what are you saying? That India should not consider China to be a long term threat despite all the provocations from China? That China should continue to help India's enemies and build up its forces on the Macmahon line, and encircle India and block India's economic development by opposing loans from the Asian Development Bank and block India's nuclear exemption at the NSG etc, but India should just relax and do nothing about it?

If you're trying to justify China's help to Pak by using the "Cold War" argument, then what is the argument for blocking loans for the development of Arunachal Pradesh at the ADB or blocking the exemption for India at the NSG? It is China which has tried to hurt India at every opportunity it could, and you common Chinese folk have been so brainwashed and kept in the dark by the CCP propaganda that you're ready to excuse any of their behaviour by making up ridiculous arguments.

Even if China nukes India tomorrow, you will be saying that "India should forget it and co-operate with China". :rolleyes:
Provocations from China?
- Pakistan will continue to receive aids from USA as long as Pakistan is useful to US geopolitical strategy, from China as long as it is useful as market, supply source and supply route. I hope Pakistan will no longer be Indian enemy, and that rely on a lot of things including your both countries' efforts & US decision.
- China's military presence along the McMahom Line is smaller than Indian counter-part, as discussed openly by Indian bloggers here.
- ADB loan is a provocation to China who is on passive side. If either Japan or Russia applied for ADB loan in N4 islands, the other side will object. Disputed territory is an issue, as discussed in separate threads.
- On NSG, check it out more deeply will you, on Indian media. (3 nations hold out at NSG, India faces delay) Why blame China, and China only?

You common Indian fellows are so brainwashed by Western Media (Indian Media parrot that most of the times) to hate (like one side had massacred millions on the other side) and fear China (even roads, railways become fearful! what's next, country parks become landing zones?).

There should be no hate, no fear, no threat. Team work, like business partners, negotiate, make things constructive to living standards, and move on.

ku why waste your time Hillary came and we have signed a bunch of military and defense pacts with USA; China will be put in check.
Hello American, you win again, lots of steady cashflow will be going from this developing Asian country to your corporate executive pay cheques.

Taiwanese stop buying, so more cheap computers for you, sad ha? No problem, you sold Pakistani F16, now Indians, how smart! Like you sold to all sides in the Gulf, better they replenish the stocks by using them, but they pay you back in oil, what do the S Asians pay?

Have you ever cared about the poor, sick, uneducated and homeless in S Asia? Oh I forget, you elite don't even care about those people back in the US. Then at least sell Asians medical equipments, transportation, affordable TV's, green energy? Oh again I forget, you don't make them. Finally, at least give them loan even in US$? Oh I forget, you have to bail out the banks & auto companies, and fund the $663.8B defence budget next year.

How come China is put in check by those arms deals? Those are way behind what Japan is getting, and even more meaningless compared to your B2 & N-subs already stationed in Guam.
 

Known_Unknown

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Let's take your statements one by one:

- Pakistan will continue to receive aids from USA as long as Pakistan is useful to US geopolitical strategy, from China as long as it is useful as market, supply source and supply route. I hope Pakistan will no longer be Indian enemy, and that rely on a lot of things including your both countries' efforts & US decision.
Don't equate US' relations with Pak to China's. Sure, US supplies F-16 to Pak and other military equipment, but they don't do it out out malice or hate towards India. In fact, they are willing to offer India much better weapons and even nuclear technology that they would never give to Pakistan. China's relations with Pakistan are due to the saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". China considers India to be her long term enemy and hence has tried to hurt India's interests at every chance she gets.

- China's military presence along the McMahom Line is smaller than Indian counter-part, as discussed openly by Indian bloggers here.
I challenge you to show me one single post here or elsewhere, which shows that China's military presence is smaller than the Indian presence. China's armed forces in Tibet dwarf the Indian deployment along the Mcmahon line, and that is exactly the reason why the Indian government has started to increase military presence in those areas.

- ADB loan is a provocation to China who is on passive side. If either Japan or Russia applied for ADB loan in N4 islands, the other side will object. Disputed territory is an issue, as discussed in separate threads.
Don't make hypothetical speculations on what Japan would do or what Russia would do. Tell me the basis of your opposition. On one hand, China refuses to give a visa to Indians from Arunachal Pradesh claiming that they're Chinese and hence they don't need a visa, and on the other hand, you block a loan which is to be used for the development of their land. Do you want your so-called "Chinese brethren" in Arunachal Pradesh to remain poor, hungry and starving?

- On NSG, check it out more deeply will you, on Indian media. (3 nations hold out at NSG, India faces delay) Why blame China, and China only?
Except, there's no reason for the other nations like New Zealand, Australia etc to have a grudge or have a vested interest in denying India nuclear technology. The reason they block it is to placate their domestic opinion which is strongly in favour of nuclear non-proliferation and disarmament. The governments in these countries have to face criticism from their people which might make them lose the next election.

In China, there's no question of your government losing elections. There's no strong non-proliferation lobby in China either. So why was China blocking India's entry again?
 
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SammyCheung

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India is not willing to settle the territorial dispute. China is looking for at least half of what you call AP (including Tawang). Until that dispute is settled, China cannot help but see India as an occupier on its land. But if India is willing to settle, China would much rather have a neutral India that will side with China on developing country matters (like climate accord).
 

Yusuf

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Forget about AP. Nothing is going to happen.
 

hit&run

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@ shotgunner & grey boy
India faces growing Chinese hostility after 26/11

As China strengthens its navy with acquisition of aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, India will soon find that unless it boosts its maritime muscle, it will be strategically marginalised and outflanked by an assertive and expansionist China,
While India received overwhelming international sympathy and support during the 26/11 terrorist outrage, the Chinese reaction was one of almost unbridled glee, while backing Pakistani protestations of innocence. The state-run China Institute of Contemporary International Relations claimed that the terrorists who carried out the attack came from India.

Moreover, even as the terrorist strike was on, yet another Chinese “scholar” gleefully noted: “The Mumbai attack exposed the internal weakness of India, a power that is otherwise raising its status both in the region and in the world”.

Not to be outdone, the Foreign Ministry-run China Institute of Strategic Studies warned: “China can firmly support Pakistan in the event of war”, adding: “While Pakistan can benefit from its military co-operation with China while fighting India, the People’s Republic of China may have the option of resorting to a strategic military action in Southern Tibet (Arunachal Pradesh), to thoroughly liberate the people there”.

Rather than condemning the terrorists and their supporters, Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesman Qin Gang urged India and Pakistan to “maintain calm” and investigate the “cause” of the terror attack jointly. The visiting Chairman of Pakistan’s Joint Chiefs of Staff General, Tariq Majid, was received like a state dignitary by Chinese leaders, with promises of support on weapons supplies ranging from fighter aircraft to frigates.

Unsought advice
The Chinese then got into the diplomatic act, purporting to show that they were actually good Samaritans seeking to promote peace and reconciliation between India and Pakistan. The rising star in China’s diplomatic hierarchy, Vice Foreign Minister He Yafei, visited Islamabad and met the Pakistan leadership, including the ubiquitous Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani.

Rather than asking Pakistan to curb the Lashkar-e-Taiba, He Yafei stressed the need for Pakistan and India to address “outstanding Issues through dialogue and co-operation”. Shortly thereafter, the ubiquitous “Good Samaritan” He Yafei landed up in Delhi, again with the object of demonstrating to the world that China had urged “restraint” on India and promoted India-Pakistan dialogue.

Mercifully, for once, our pusillanimous Mandarins signalled that we did not need China’s purported “good offices” in dealing with the fallout of 26/11.

Just as China was becoming a net importer of oil in 1993, Zhao Nanqui a senior official of China’s People’s Liberation Army proclaimed: “We can no longer accept the Indian Ocean as an Ocean of the Indians”. Another naval analyst Zhang Ming recently proclaimed that the Islands of India’s Andaman and Nicobar Archipelago could be used as a “metal chain” to block Chinese access to the Straits of Malacca.

China has used such arguments to boost its naval presence in the Indian Ocean. Adopting a “string of pearls strategy” to encircle and contain India in the Indian Ocean, it has acquired base facilities at Gwadar and Pasni in the Makran coast of Pakistan, virtually at the mouth of the Persian Gulf.

Naval presence

It is building a fuelling station in the port of Hambantota in Southern Sri Lanka, a container facility with naval and commercial access in Chittagong and linking its Yunnan province to the Indian Ocean through Myanmar.

It has gone as far as Mauritius and Maldives, for securing a strategic presence, with promises of massive economic assistance.

China has also planned its most ambitious project in the Indian Ocean, proposing a canal access across the Isthmus of Krai in Thailand, linking the Indian Ocean to its Pacific coast.

China has reinforced these measures by sending its first naval expeditionary force spearheaded by two destroyers into the Indian Ocean, purportedly to deal with piracy off the Somalia coast. A Chinese fleet last entered the India Ocean in the 15th century, when an expeditionary force under Admiral Zheng He sailed across the Indian Ocean to Calicut, Muscat, Maldives and Mogadishu. Hu Jintao’s China appears desirous of reviving the Imperial ambitions of the Emperors of the Ming Dynasty!

As China strengthens its navy with acquisition of aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, India will soon find that unless it combines the boosting of its maritime muscle with imaginative diplomacy in its Indian Ocean neighbourhood and on China’s Pacific shores, it will be strategically marginalised and outflanked by an assertive and expansionist China, which appears bent on exploiting the high costs of Imperial overreach by the Americans in recent years. Given the manner in which China has joined hands with Pakistan to sabotage India’s quest for permanent membership of the UN Security Council and the devious role played by China in the Nuclear Suppliers Group to undermine moves to end global nuclear sanctions against India, we should have no doubt that “strategic containment” of India will remain the cornerstone of Chinese foreign policy in the foreseeable future.

US-China relationship

New Delhi should also have no doubt that China will exploit the American economic downturn and the pro-Chinese views of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, to get the Americans to revert to the policies of the Nixon, Carter and Clinton Presidencies and to make common cause with it on issues like nuclear non-proliferation, the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and even on Afghanistan and Pakistan, while undermining Indian interests.

Echoing the Pakistani line, the Communist Party mouthpiece, The People’s Daily recently suggested that for the United States to deal with problems in Afghanistan, it should not merely involve itself in the “Afghanistan problem” and the “Pakistan problem” but also in the “India-Pakistan problem”.

Hillary Clinton has characterised the US-China relationship as the “most important bilateral relationship in the world in this century”. Her visit to China was followed almost immediately by the visit to Beijing of a senior Pentagon official, who joyously proclaimed the resumption of defence ties with China.

The Bush Administration had an overarching strategic vision of its relations with India, premised on India’s pivotal role in confronting terrorism, safeguarding the sea lanes of the Indian Ocean and in promoting “strategic stability” in Asia. With elections around the corner and the UPA Government in a “lame duck” mode, Washington is unlikely to take any interest in fashioning a larger vision for India-US relations.

The challenge we face in coming months is on how we can pursue our interests in the aftermath of the 26/11 carnage, without making the Indo-US relationship exclusively fashioned by developments our western borders. The Obama Administration’s decision to curb outsourcing, without any prior consultations, manifests an American propensity to act unilaterally and peremptorily on issues of vital interest to India.

The Prime Minister’s Special Envoy Shyam Saran recently noted “an apparent willingness on the part of the US to accommodate China’s regional and global interests as a price to be paid for China refraining from tipping the US into a full blown economic and financial crisis through its own policy interventions and, hopefully, supporting US economic recovery”.

China appears set to exploit current developments to transform the American dominated unipolar world order by a bipolar world order in which it shares global hegemony with the United States. Saran perceptively noted: “This will imply a more energetic pursuit of our relations with countries like Russia and middle powers like Brazil, South Africa and Mexico. The European Union and, in particular, some of its individual members like France, can be useful political and economic partners”.

It remains to be seen if we can fashion imaginative strategies to deal with these emerging challenges.

(The author is a former High Commissioner to Pakistan. [email protected]

Hindi chini bhai bhai, Indian chines Brother-Brother it was a chines joke. India has learnt with its past experience and current circumstances are telling the same that peace never comes with slogans and isn't cheap to have. Beggers have no choice. we will go for peace with china for sure by creating parallel power. If china mind India's growing power then its intentions are further exposed. What is wrong if India is a parallel power to china and a friend as well?

Article has sub continent origin not western
 

Known_Unknown

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India is not willing to settle the territorial dispute. China is looking for at least half of what you call AP (including Tawang). Until that dispute is settled, China cannot help but see India as an occupier on its land. But if India is willing to settle, China would much rather have a neutral India that will side with China on developing country matters (like climate accord).
Fine, you give us back Aksai Chin and we will settle AP.
 

Known_Unknown

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I know, but let's humour him for a while Yusuf. I'm interested in what his response will be. :wink:
 

Yusuf

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The reply will be we were ready for a trade off of AP in recognition for Aksai Chin to China.
India refused long back.
 

Known_Unknown

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Yea, long back, but now that tradeoff makes sense. We don't need Aksai Chin, and even geographically, it is militarily indefensible. If you've checked it out in satellite pictures of Google Maps, you can see how a high mountain wall of the Himalayas blocks off the Aksai Chin valley from the rest of Ladakh. However, we do need AP, because it sends representatives to the Indian Parliament.

In the Chinese case, they need both Aksai Chin and parts of AP. Aksai Chin because it has the only all weather road from Xinjiang to Tibet and the rest of China. And parts of AP including Tawang to strengthen its hold over Tibet and centres of Tibetian Buddhist religious learning such as the Tawang monastery.
 

ShyAngel

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Greyboy, if only your leaders thought that way. But I appreciate the sentiments. The thing is, I have a bunch of Chinese friends in real life, and they are very nice people, and most of them don't even know much about the Indo-China war and the aftermath. They don't know that their government has tried to hurt India at every opportunity, and that China is seen in India as a long term national security threat due to its aggressive actions.

This ignorance is no doubt due to the CCP's censorship of media in China. But I have hope that if and when in the future a democratic government comes to power in China and there is free flow of information, China will stop being hostile towards India and may even start real co-operation for a change.
Forget about indo-china war. Average chinese doesn't even know where Tibet is located or how it looks. 90% of chinese never once been to Tibet or seen Tibet apart from the cheap military who work in Tibet and kills innocent tibetans on himalayan mountain aka near india and nepal boarder. And also the chinese who run little shops, and strip clubs here and there around lhasa and amdo(shanghi) provence. That's about it! Rest have no idea that the roof of the world was and is occupied by their curl government.

Parrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr china man wake up!:mornin:
 

grey boy

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Greyboy, if only your leaders thought that way. But I appreciate the sentiments. The thing is, I have a bunch of Chinese friends in real life, and they are very nice people, and most of them don't even know much about the Indo-China war and the aftermath. They don't know that their government has tried to hurt India at every opportunity, and that China is seen in India as a long term national security threat due to its aggressive actions.

This ignorance is no doubt due to the CCP's censorship of media in China. But I have hope that if and when in the future a democratic government comes to power in China and there is free flow of information, China will stop being hostile towards India and may even start real co-operation for a change.
Known_Unknown,

no offence, just try to explain to you, there are always another side of a story. An example like me, i came from hongkong, a brittish
colony untill 1997. Over 90% were western media, because the last thing the
brittish want us to do was to get influnce by the CCP. So i propably brainwash
by the west instead of the CCP.

A personal real story, i never knew there was a Indo-China war untill i start to get interest in defence a few years back. May be it was happened such a long time ago. The first war i have ever came across was
the China-vietnam, according from the western media, we won the war.

It wasn't untill one day i was surfing on a Pakistan defence forum, a Chinese was haven't an argument with an India member about the
China-vietnam war during the 1979. The Indian member was mocking the chinese got their butt kick by the Vietnamies with a LINK. I was shock, but later on got it figure out, because at that time USA leading the west were backing China against the USSR backing Vietnam.

Sadly including me, when we read news that favour our country, we hardly will bother to confirm it, i guess this is human nature.

In my humble opinion, most of the media perform according to their government interest. Hope tomorrow will be a better day for everybody.
 

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