China Economy: News & Discussion

[Armand2REP]

The so called rampant IP theft, trade barriers are pure pretext for trade war. IP protection and access to the market has never been better in today's China, there certainly are space for more improvement, but it has been better.

According to the WTO it is not good enough. When China joined the organisation they agreed to a long list of commitments that would lead them to a market economy. Very few of these commitments have been met and now China is being held accountable for their failure to meet the commitments they agreed to. It is the worst form of deceit to swear that you will do one thing and then do another.

If the trade war was about IP theft, why targeting Huawei which is a model in innovation and IP protection, instead of taking on some other companies that have allegedly stolen western IP? It simply doesn't make any sense, except that IP protection is not the real issue, or the issue that actually matters is to maintain western dominance in technology hence to keep China stay at the bottom of the value chain.

Huawei is indicted on 23 counts of various felonies in US courts. They had no choice but to blacklist them for their long list of crimes. The tariffs are a separate issue from the actions taken against Huawei.

The thing that really pisses west is not the so called IP theft, because it is clear that those who steals IP are always behind. What panicks them is that Chinese start investing heavily in technology, that is how China climbs the value chain and start taking a bite into industries that are traditionally controlled by the west.

When you have to use Western IP to climb the value chain and you don't make licensing agreements with the patent holders you are breaking the law. If you wish to be a nation of criminals then be a nation of criminals. Don't be upset when you are called out for it.

That is why they are critcizing the "made in China 2025" plan, calling the investment we put into the key sectors unfair subsidy, because if it's successfully implemented, China will be technologically independent, shattering western dominance.

In order to be technologically independent you must first innovate your own technology. Basing an industry off of the work of others who will no longer allow you access to their research will quickly fall behind. China has contributed little to the global research community so its absence from it will not be missed.

 

[Armand2REP]

it would be fine only if Chinese keep working at sweatshops for minimum wages, instead of attempting to take high-paid jobs from the west.

It is not the West that prevents China from innovating and legally using IP developed by others. It is the factory education system that promotes rote learning and cheating. Communism is not conducive to free thought, without your own ideas the only thing left is to copy the ideas of others. There are legal ways to go about using the IP of others, such as buying the license to use their patents but they refuse to do that in any case where they can successfully copy it and only buy it if they can't.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

India did not succeed because of lack of common ideology and India being designed as a ailed state and a LEFTOVER of land remaining after separation of Pakistan and because of lack of natural resources in large quantities.

Socialism and not diversity was reason for slow growth of India.

 

[Vijyes]

Socialism and not diversity was reason for slow growth of India.

What socialism? How did socialism prevent India from developing defence? Reason for Indian weakness is poor defence development and that was in no way due to socialism. India has little major diversity except for some Abrahamic cults. The diversity in minor level is not an issue as there is always some difference between 2 people, even if they are family members.

The problem was lack of 'actionable ideology'. Indians had no aim in life and just lived like animals with no proper thinking. Vivekananda har put this attitude of Hindus as 'touch me not' attitude.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

What socialism? How did socialism prevent India from developing defence? Reason for Indian weakness is poor defence development and that was in no way due to socialism. India has little major diversity except for some Abrahamic cults. The diversity in minor level is not an issue as there is always some difference between 2 people, even if they are family members.

The problem was lack of 'actionable ideology'. Indians had no aim in life and just lived like animals with no proper thinking. Vivekananda har put this attitude of Hindus as 'touch me not' attitude.

Care fo explain how "touch me not" attitude and diversity affects economic & technological improvement.

Explaining what I said.

Socialism is about spending money for very short lived temporary appeasements which don't generate revenue. It's not diversity but socialism (and sometimes declining population) which unites countries who didn't grow.
http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/rankings/growth-projections/

Both ideological as well as atheist states are rich & poor.

 

[nimo_cn]

According to the WTO it is not good enough. When China joined the organisation they agreed to a long list of commitments that would lead them to a market economy. Very few of these commitments have been met and now China is being held accountable for their failure to meet the commitments they agreed to. It is the worst form of deceit to swear that you will do one thing and then do another.



Huawei is indicted on 23 counts of various felonies in US courts. They had no choice but to blacklist them for their long list of crimes. The tariffs are a separate issue from the actions taken against Huawei.



When you have to use Western IP to climb the value chain and you don't make licensing agreements with the patent holders you are breaking the law. If you wish to be a nation of criminals then be a nation of criminals. Don't be upset when you are called out for it.



In order to be technologically independent you must first innovate your own technology. Basing an industry off of the work of others who will no longer allow you access to their research will quickly fall behind. China has contributed little to the global research community so its absence from it will not be missed.

Go to WTO and sue China for not doing enough, let WTO decide the matter.

How many indictment against Huawei were verdicted by the courts? You can bring as many indictments as you wish, that doesn't prove a damn thing. Huawei is not banned for IP infringement, if Americans are sure about Huawei stealing their IP property, why would they accuse Huawei of endangering national security? And in which way Huawei is endangering American national security? where is the proof? nothing!

If you are so sure that China will never catch up, then relax and let things be what they were before. why getting so upset with the growth of Chinese companies like Huawei?

 

[Vijyes]

Care fo explain how "touch me not" attitude and diversity affects economic & technological improvement.

Explaining what I said.

Socialism is about spending money for very short lived temporary appeasements which don't generate revenue. It's not diversity but socialism (and sometimes declining population) which unites countries who didn't grow.
http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/rankings/growth-projections/

Both ideological as well as atheist states are rich & poor.

Culture is the backbone of Technology. Technology requires that people work as a team with common agenda over long periods of time to have a common solution to problems. If there is touch-me-not attitude, this is impossible. Similarly, India was not diverse but just 'agenda-less' or 'savage' which prevented people from joining hands.

Economy is more reliant on natural resources availability rather than Technology. Culture can only be used as a tool to gain strength and acquire natural resources from 'weaker' people. But, economy at the end of the day, relies 90% on natural resources. So, I don't consider it right to mix economy with technology.

Socialism is about giving equitable access to natural resources to people. It has nothing to do with spending in short term. Socialism just seeks yo avoid wealth accumulation in private entities but allows government accumulation of wealth.

Ideology includes atheism and not jut religion. Almost entire atheist countries' atheism agenda comes out of communism and hence is also an ideology. Subject to availability of resources and population, no ideological country is weak internally and no ideologically driven country has had internal political disunity. So, ideology gives internal strength and sense of teamwork

 

[Vijyes]

Socialism/Communism and some xyz isms which originated in West follows only one path i.e MATERIALISM or INDIVIDUALISM or mix of both

Eastern philosophy is Collectivism or Spiritualism or mix of both.

Who is winning?

Eastern want Cars&i-phones but no western care about Monks or Yogis.... So west is winning from last 400 yrs.


In this materialistic world only Indians are some what survived rest all are blindly copying West.

Eastern culture also is material. What Dorian you are seeing is due to Buddhist degradation. People like chanakya, krishna etc were all practical people. So, mistaking degradation and savagery as eastern culture is foolish to say the least.

 

[Vijyes]

Broadly u may say 10- max 20% East is Materialistic or Individualism and 10- max 20% West is Collectivism or Spiritualism.

Again, you are mistaking east and west as if they are constantly same. Remember time before 1500AD when west believed in flat earth, followed church, beat up Coppernicus for calling out lies of church, hunting down witches. This is not materialistic, is it?

Change is a reality of life. Don't talk as if things are constant

 

[amoy]

FDI to Vietnam increases 28.6 pct in first 4 months of 2019FDI to Vietnam increases 28.6 pct in first 4 months of 2019

HANOI, May 3 (Xinhua) -- Vietnam attracted foreign direct investment (FDI) of over 7.4 billion U.S. dollars in the first four months of this year, witnessing a year-on-year rise of 28.6 percent, according to the country's Foreign Investment Agency on Friday.


Among 51 countries and regions having fresh FDI projects in Vietnam between January and April, China was the biggest investor with more than 1.3 billion dollars, accounting for 24.6 percent of the total registered capital, followed by Singapore with 699.7 million dollars, the agency under the Ministry of Planning and Investment said, noting that Vietnam licensed 187 Chinese-invested projects in the period.

 

[Armand2REP]

Go to WTO and sue China for not doing enough, let WTO decide the matter.

How many indictment against Huawei were verdicted by the courts? You can bring as many indictments as you wish, that doesn't prove a damn thing. Huawei is not banned for IP infringement, if Americans are sure about Huawei stealing their IP property, why would they accuse Huawei of endangering national security? And in which way Huawei is endangering American national security? where is the proof? nothing!

If you are so sure that China will never catch up, then relax and let things be what they were before. why getting so upset with the growth of Chinese companies like Huawei?

There are already 200 judgments against China in the WTO. It isn't up to them to enforce it but gives a nation the legal right to take countermeasures which the US is legally doing. The US could have done it years ago but their ruling class paid off the politicians to overlook it for the promise of access to Chinese markets they never received.

The US can do whatever it wants to Huawei and there is nothing they can do about it just as American companies can't do anything about Chinese courts in China. You should probably read the counts of the indictments, it is multiple counts of fraud, IP theft, violating sanctions and breaches of national security. The US government feels they have enough evidence to convict Huawei, you will just have to wait for the case to find out the details. If any of Huawei's corporate board members land in a country that has extradition with the US, they will be thrown in chains and dragged in front a judge like a common criminal.

Without creating your own IP China was never going to catch up. This day was always coming.

 

[nimo_cn]

It is not the West that prevents China from innovating and legally using IP developed by others. It is the factory education system that promotes rote learning and cheating. Communism is not conducive to free thought, without your own ideas the only thing left is to copy the ideas of others. There are legal ways to go about using the IP of others, such as buying the license to use their patents but they refuse to do that in any case where they can successfully copy it and only buy it if they can't.

I have contended that IP protection in China was worse before, if it's so unbearable now, why endure it for long? too busy earning money from China?
Americans like Steve Bannon at least has the honesty to admit the trade war and technology war are means to contain the rise of China.

There are already 200 judgments against China in the WTO. It isn't up to them to enforce it but gives a nation the legal right to take countermeasures which the US is legally doing. The US could have done it years ago but their ruling class paid off the politicians to overlook it for the promise of access to Chinese markets they never received.

The US can do whatever it wants to Huawei and there is nothing they can do about it just as American companies can't do anything about Chinese courts in China. You should probably read the counts of the indictments, it is multiple counts of fraud, IP theft, violating sanctions and breaches of national security. The US government feels they have enough evidence to convict Huawei, you will just have to wait for the case to find out the details. If any of Huawei's corporate board members land in a country that has extradition with the US, they will be thrown in chains and dragged in front a judge like a common criminal.

Without creating your own IP China was never going to catch up. This day was always coming.

blah, blah, but no evidence. it's the Americans who can't wait for the results in the courts, instead they take it to an executive order bypassing the judicial process, remember?

Americans can do whatever they wish, just don't blame it on China. I am not here to beg them to stop this trade war, I am just asking people to call it what it is. It's an attempt to contain the rise of China, IP or no IP doesn't matter.

I should remind you one more time, American government banned Huawei for national security reason, not IP. And everyone knows it, even national security is a pretext, the real reason is that Huawei is leading in 5G and Americans won't allow that to continue. Trump himself confessed, 5G is a war they can't lose.

What I can't stand is not America's instinct to protect its clown as the sole superpower on the planet, but hypocrites who would rather call what it is but glorify it as a noble cause of protecting IP and fair trade.

 

[nimo_cn]

China to issue 5G licenses soon
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201906/04/WS5cf54b0ca310519142700d0b.html

China to issue 5G licenses soon
By MA SI | China Daily | Updated: 2019-06-04 00:30

An engineer stands under a 5G base station antenna in Huawei’s Songshan Lake Manufacturing Center in Dongguan, Guangdong province, on Thursday. [Photo/Agencies]
Lead in superfast technology paves way for commercial use

China will soon issue commercial licenses for 5G, as the country has established an edge in the superfast wireless technology, both in domestic innovation and international cooperation, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology said on Monday.

 

[Armand2REP]

CHINA BUSINESS & ECONOMY
BBC’s Live 5G Broadcast Fails After Using Huawei Equipment
New media report also reveals China is rigging UK security tests in favor of Huawei
BY NICOLE HAO
June 3, 2019 Updated: June 3, 2019

BBC, did two live TV broadcasts using Huawei’s equipment that day. The first one was delayed by 15 minutes, while the second one was cut short after the image stopped displaying due to poor signals.

First Live Broadcast
5G is the latest mobile telecommunication technology, with speeds 10 to 100 times faster than 4G. 5G networks can connect 100 times the number of devices that 4G can, and supply 100 percent of coverage.

BBC tried its first 5G live broadcast during the morning of May 30. Rory Cellan-Jones, a BBC technology correspondent, reported from Covent Garden in London, but could not broadcast on schedule after “the whole system went down.”

“We’d run out of data on the SIM card,” Cellan-Jones said.

Cellan-Jones explained that because using 5G takes up a lot of data, the SIM card on the BBC equipment soon ran out of storage space. He had to get a new SIM card with larger storage.

He introduced on Twitter that BBC uses 5G terminal equipment from Huawei.

He added that the connection speed was not stable. “Walk a bit that way, it [the connection speed] might be higher; walk a bit this way, it might be lower.”

But in general, the quality of the broadcasted image was good.

Second Broadcast
At lunch time, BBC tried 5G live broadcasting again in the same location.

Ten seconds after BBC News anchor Clive Myrie turned to journalist Sarah Walton at the scene, the image became blurry. At 13 seconds, the image was lost for about 1.5 seconds, then became unstable. At 42 seconds, the image was totally lost.

After another 13 seconds, BBC stopped the live broadcasting even though Walton was still talking about 5G. “Bizarrely, the 5G line isn’t working properly,” Myrie apologized.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Culture is the backbone of Technology. Technology requires that people work as a team with common agenda over long periods of time to have a common solution to problems. If there is touch-me-not attitude, this is impossible. Similarly, India was not diverse but just 'agenda-less' or 'savage' which prevented people from joining hands.

The reference from Harvard I sent doesn't agree with you.
Technology isn't there in blood or culture of people.
Google "Maslow's theory of motivation".

Economy is more reliant on natural resources availability rather than Technology. Culture can only be used as a tool to gain strength and acquire natural resources from 'weaker' people. But, economy at the end of the day, relies 90% on natural resources. So, I don't consider it right to mix economy with technology.

Wow, glad to know that economy is 90% dependent on natural resources anywhere in world outside middle east.
Seriously

Socialism is about giving equitable access to natural resources to people. It has nothing to do with spending in short term. Socialism just seeks yo avoid wealth accumulation in private entities but allows government accumulation of wealth.

Wealth isn't generated from natural resources in most countries. If invested at correct place, it increases, if wasted, it declines.
Socialism is about just handing over money like farm loan waiver etc. things which won't give any returns in future.

These are short term solutions appeasements which are not a solution to problem at all.

Ideology includes atheism and not jut religion. Almost entire atheist countries' atheism agenda comes out of communism and hence is also an ideology. Subject to availability of resources and population, no ideological country is weak internally and no ideologically driven country has had internal political disunity. So, ideology gives internal strength and sense of teamwork

None of ideologies has anything to do with modern system of economies any country runs.

 

[Vijyes]

The reference from Harvard I sent doesn't agree with you.
Technology isn't there in blood or culture of people.
Google "Maslow's theory of motivation".

Technology is not in any culture. But culture gives motivation to develop it. Technology is used to achieve an agenda. This agenda is set by culture. Since Indians had no cultural agenda, Indians did not develop Technology

Wow, glad to know that economy is 90% dependent on natural resources anywhere in world outside middle east.
Seriously

Did I say that it is directly dependent? It can be indirect dependence too

Wealth isn't generated from natural resources in most countries. If invested at correct place, it increases, if wasted, it declines.
Socialism is about just handing over money like farm loan waiver etc. things which won't give any returns in future.

These are short term solutions appeasements which are not a solution to problem at all.

Wealth is obtained by natural resources access either directly or indirectly. You seem to confuse the meaning of wealth. Wealth is itself knowledge and natural resource. Money, on the other hand is just quantification of labour.

After learning of these definition, you can see how giving monetary aid to unfortunate ones don't decrease wealth but only balances the distribution of labour and the reward.

 

[shankyz]

Self delete

30 charssssssssssssss

 

[shankyz]

@ nimo_cn

Your logic is laughable.

Facebook, Netflix, Dropbox, Google ...even Wikipedia are dangerous to China's society because it brings in information beyond the iron curtain that you guys have meticulously set up over the last few decades. And this is what the CCP fears - information in the hands of the common citizen.

US has hit China where it hurts - it did a trial run with ZTE last year, which was saved by the CCP's relentless lobbying a.k.a. begging to Uncle Sam.

This time it is Huawei. And this will stay.

For too long, Huawei being a privately held company with opaque funding info, has undercut other competitors in bidding for telecom contracts. On top of that, Huawei employees are in the news always for the wrong reasons - stealing T-Mobile robot parts, espionage activity in Poland, massive bribery in Africa, UK National Security Cyber Centre scathing reports, Vodafone Italy backdoor presence....the list goes on and on.

 

[Vijyes]

@ nimo_cn

Your logic is laughable.

Facebook, Netflix, Dropbox, Google ...even Wikipedia are dangerous to China's society because it brings in information beyond the iron curtain that you guys have meticulously set up over the last few decades. And this is what the CCP fears - information in the hands of the common citizen.

US has hit China where it hurts - it did a trial run with ZTE last year, which was saved by the CCP's relentless lobbying a.k.a. begging to Uncle Sam.

This time it is Huawei. And this will stay.

For too long, Huawei being a privately held company with opaque funding info, has undercut other competitors in bidding for telecom contracts. On top of that, Huawei employees are in the news always for the wrong reasons - stealing T-Mobile robot parts, espionage activity in Poland, massive bribery in Africa, UK National Security Cyber Centre scathing reports, Vodafone Italy backdoor presence....the list goes on and on.

Technically, FB, Twitter etc are a powerful propaganda tool. Just like we see today where Twitter is openly admitting to be having political bias, the problems of having such biased platform is immense. The evidence is right in front of your eyes and it is impossible for you to say that Twitter, FB or other USA companies are not potential political weapons.

China banning these websites was indeed a prudent move. You may criticise it for hampering free speech but reality is that it was never free speech in the first place. The moderator team of these websites are based and controlled by vested interests of the west and have political biases which have been shown to be spilling out in the open

 

[shankyz]

That is for the citizens to decide, not the Government. You have a very naive understanding of the Iron Curtain in China.

It essentially monitors controls, filters, blocks and tracks all personal information of all users in addition to blocking of websites.

Wikipedia is a political tool, Whatsapp is a political tool, really ? This is your defence.

Regarding Twitter, FB, yes moderation is done by people who have some inherent bias, this is true for all technology-based comapnies.

RT , Al Jazeera and CCTV are full blown propaganda weapons - none of which are banned in the West. It is for the people to decide which is what, not the Government.

The role social media tools like Twitter played in Indian Lok Sabha election is phenomenal - to call out fake news, to put forward your viewpoints, to make a counterpoint immediately ....China has its equivalent of Twitter - Weibo - so you are okay with that I guess just because it is Chinese.

Huawei ban was long pending & justified- don't know why it took so long to fructify. I am in the telecom industry - know how Huawei operates.