BSF shot dead teenagers trying to exfilterate to Pakistan

[Ray]

At the border, not only the terrorist are active attempting crossing, but also spies!

Smugglers too!

If one has legitimate work across the border, then they would go through the official border crossing post and with legitimate papers. Surely, they don't have to cross at night like thieves or worse miscreants.

 

[JayATL]

This happens in the US



So, the US Border Patrol kills across the IB!!

Not a terrorist. but a 15 year old rock thrower!

Ray , do you know the difference between policy and someone breaking it? The US border has a no shoot period at anyone who is unarmed policy! unless the agents life is in immediate danger. That example is silly. The agent in question in under indictment and could face up to life in prison if convicted.

I''l like to ask you, when an Indian senior army officer get caught in a land scan deal, does that mean the indian militray as a "policy" allows its personnel to scam others? were you allowed to scam?

side note: YOU CAN ADD ANY USER TO IGNORE LIST IN DFI GO TO SETTINGS AND DO THE REST any details ask me how :- MOD and for us here every member is same so no need to get personal with any member

 

[amitkriit]

Ray , do you know the difference between policy and someone breaking it? The US border has a no shoot period at anyone who is unarmed policy! unless the agents life is in immediate danger. That example is silly. The agent in question in under indictment and could face up to life in prison if convicted.

I''l like to ask you, when an Indian senior army officer get caught in a land scan deal, does that mean the indian militray as a "policy" allows its personnel to scam others? were you allowed to scam?

side note: I almost vomited in my mouth when I saw AJTR post here. is there away someone can add people to a /ignore list on these boards?

India is not USA; Pakistan, Bangladesh are not Mexico. There is a good reason why USA had to send it's birds half way across the world to drop bombs. Indians are having to live in one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the world. Let us not try to draw a parallel between USA's border policing and India's border policing. Levels of threat are quite different. People of India still carry the baggage of 1947 partition, ancestors of these infiltrators were responsible for the partition, and these new generations are not very different from their ancestors ideologically, in fact they carry more radical socio-political views. USA never had to face anything like Kashmir, Punjab and NE insurgency.

 

[warriorextreme]

^^^
LOL... I never said don't shoot terrorists

is it for me jay?
cause i never quoted you

 

[Ray]

Ray , do you know the difference between policy and someone breaking it? The US border has a no shoot period at anyone who is unarmed policy! unless the agents life is in immediate danger. That example is silly. The agent in question in under indictment and could face up to life in prison if convicted.

It is obvious that you do not know the difference in policy and what it takes to guard a border that has so many illegal activities going on?

Your claims the US is more civilised than others is a fiction. I am not getting the link of the TIME story on the US Bounty Hunters hunting Mexican illegals like rats nor Zakaria show on the subject.

We are not talking of one case. Please check how many were at the hand of the US border patrol and how many at the hands of those who took law into their own hands, euphemistically termed as 'vigilantes'.

The US Border Patrol not only acts within the US Borders, but has the audacity to kill across the border!! Arrogance personified! And kill by broad daylight! No chance of any mistaken identity either!

We are well aware of the 'fairness' and the 'humane treatment' meted out to the inmates in Guantanamo and how they were not brought to justice.

Also, check how fair things are with the US:
US withdraws copies of human rights
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1318.shtml

I would say that you have no idea of the border in India and hence you fail to comprehend. At night, on the wrong side of the fence, you expect one to find out if the man is armed or unarmed duly hidden in the sarkanda. Even an eagle by day would fail!

Your use of silly and other invectives not only here but everywhere is not appreciated. Debate like a gentleman. Please consider this as a caution given as the Mentor. Your disabusing our generosity is not a display of good taste and grooming. You must remember this is an Indian forum and we are not accustomed to the use of American gung ho and insulting terminology.

I''l like to ask you, when an Indian senior army officer get caught in a land scan deal, does that mean the indian militray as a "policy" allows its personnel to scam others? were you allowed to scam?

side note: I almost vomited in my mouth when I saw AJTR post here. is there away someone can add people to a /ignore list on these boards?

As usual, you know how to veer the subject to another tangent, when you know your are on a sticky wicket!

Are you aware of policies of the Indian Govt, or do you think that because you are in the US, you know all or that the 'natives' out here will swoon at your being there!

I fail to understand your thought's 'food chain' wherein you can travel from border shooting to land scams.

 

[Ray]

^^ did you read the post from which I was quoting ray? did you bother to or just come in with arms flailing in every direction to reply to me?

No he is not a bird.

I would be quite straight, it is you who is flailing your arms in all directions and even clutching straws like a drowning man!

Check this thread, where you have been quite insulting to posters.

I believe in American terminology one could feel you are being 'smart assed' and attempting to brow beat the posters with a Holier than Thou attitude and sneer. Misplaced I would say.

My sincere advice to you is to discuss point by point without insulting people and instead as a gentleman would do. It does none any good to be supercilious, trotting around with a false arrogance and attempting to feel that invectives can substitute for lack of knowledge.

Maybe feasible in the US, but not in India and surely not in DFI.

 

[Ray]

I have come into this thread late.

If Ajtr has made you vomit, do report it.

I am sure Ajtr will be taken to task if wrong.

Ajtr

Please note.

 

[Ray]

India or peace loving country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Who was the Glasgow bomber then???An indian.There are examples of indian citizens being arrested in from europe to africa on terrorism charges.(check out old world terror thread threads if it still exists.i had updated a lot many such examples in that thread.).Who created LTTE/nurtured LTTE for its own interests in srilanka.

Good point.

The Glasgow bomber, was the NHS doctor who tried to murder thousands of people in the London and Glasgow car bombings had been part of a terrorist cell in Iraq.

So, a good decent Indian was indoctrinated by who? He was not an Iraqi. Now, who was running the terrorist cell? Indians?

Of course, there are terrorists of Indian origin, but important is the issue, who is training them? And why are they being indoctrinated? What is the power to indoctrinate innocent, decent Indians?

So quit blaming Indians.

LTTE.

Who was creating a genocide in North Sri Lanka?

And where would the backlash be?

 

[Ray]

That is india's domestic political problem. indian politicians encourage this for their own gains.solve it in political circles first.Why uyou should ve problem when shiela dixit herself says BD people are our guests.If you 've problem with that then change the govt in election.Why you keep voting the same govt. and then cry foul.

The Shiela Dixits and Digvijay Singhs of India cry foul when terrorists they have welcomed and nurtured act foul with India and are nabbed.

The helpless common man then calls 'foul'.

Change the govt?

Where are you from?

Paradise?

Haven't you notice the total corruption in Indian governance and polity?

It has become a greater and more interesting soap opera than Saas Teri Kabhi Badboo thi!

 

[JayATL]

It is obvious that you do not know the difference in policy and what it takes to guard a border that has so many illegal activities going on?

Your claims the US is more civilised than others is a fiction. I am not getting the link of the TIME story on the US Bounty Hunters hunting Mexican illegals like rats nor Zakaria show on the subject.

We are not talking of one case. Please check how many were at the hand of the US border patrol and how many at the hands of those who took law into their own hands, euphemistically termed as 'vigilantes'.

The US Border Patrol not only acts within the US Borders, but has the audacity to kill across the border!! Arrogance personified! And kill by broad daylight! No chance of any mistaken identity either!

We are well aware of the 'fairness' and the 'humane treatment' meted out to the inmates in Guantanamo and how they were not brought to justice.

Also, check how fair things are with the US:
US withdraws copies of human rights
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1318.shtml

I would say that you have no idea of the border in India and hence you fail to comprehend. At night, on the wrong side of the fence, you expect one to find out if the man is armed or unarmed duly hidden in the sarkanda. Even an eagle by day would fail!

Your use of silly and other invectives not only here but everywhere is not appreciated. Debate like a gentleman. Please consider this as a caution given as the Mentor. Your disabusing our generosity is not a display of good taste and grooming. You must remember this is an Indian forum and we are not accustomed to the use of American gung ho and insulting terminology.



As usual, you know how to veer the subject to another tangent, when you know your are on a sticky wicket!

Are you aware of policies of the Indian Govt, or do you think that because you are in the US, you know all or that the 'natives' out here will swoon at your being there!

I fail to understand your thought's 'food chain' wherein you can travel from border shooting to land scams.

Here is where you get dense and stubborn and start taking personal shots at me. You state a rogue agent(s) and incorrectly quote the bounty hunter episode ( stick to local issues is my advice to you) - as some proof positive of the US immigration/ border security policy arm and ill deeds on their borders .

The US Border Patrol not only acts within the US Borders, but has the audacity to kill across the border!! Arrogance personified!

Incorrect, wrong , false---Brigadier like I suggested above stick to desi talk please. if referring to Mexican episode - it was bounty hunters on an illegal mission, they are not aligned with any official law enforcement arm. It's like a local militia. but yet different . If border secruity crosses then they have done in direct violation of US policies , get fired, thrown in jail if they killed someone. just like BSF jawan who takes bribes - he is acting against policy and can be thrown in jail.

While the BSF shooting is not because of some perception on their behalf rather it is the POLICY or WAS to shoot all on sight. In fact I'm surprised "the brigadier " has no clue that INDIA acknowledged and changed their policy! Your arguing a point that has been even accepted by the Inidan govt as been faulty!

You publish some report from 2003 where a political arm of the US govt ( by moronic bush's cronies)pulled a human rights report to please Israel and re publish it. Does that mean they also pulled all human ' rights' from the US? Did that translate to rights being taken away?

BTW and as you put it my " Thoughts food chain" ; was trying to show you an example of silliness when you equate a rogue action(s) to a policy of a governing body" - I'll try to keep my "thoughts food chain" more precise- the next time around for you!

As far as your disdain for me being American. such pettiness is unbecoming of an officer and gentleman. Please understand that I'm also Indian, my family is in India, we have been Indians for generations. and you nor anyone has anymore claim of being patriotic anymore than my family.

Finally- I repeat, as in the military it is always considered best to repeat I told by dear wifey: You are arguing a point that even the GOI has accepted was faulty and incorrect and has ordered your former ilk to adhere to. Roger that? 10-4 over and out!

P.S can I inquire what division of the militray you were involved with ?

 

[JayATL]

I have come into this thread late.

If Ajtr has made you vomit, do report it.

I am sure Ajtr will be taken to task if wrong.

Ajtr

Please note.

No thank you. I try to avoid you like ..... well you are good at analogies. I'll approach some other mods if I have an issue. Cheers

 

[Ray]

No thank you. I try to avoid you like ..... well you are good at analogies. I'll approach some other mods if I have an issue. Cheers

It also shows you are quite ignorant even as to how this forum operates.

When you use the Report Button, it does not go to any single Moderator.

Moderation is not a one man show!

 

[A.V.]

Debate like a gentleman. Please consider this as a caution given as the Mentor. Your disabusing our generosity is not a display of good taste and grooming.

[hl]In the Words Of RAY sir this warning goes to all users , next up will be infarctions , yellowcards and red cards which i hate to do ., is it so difficult to bring out the points of debate without resorting to those cheap shots.[/hl]

I have already warned members and deleted posts in this thread so dont make me do it again as i can see members have become unruly debating topics , all member again i say cut out the sarcasm and attitude this is not the place where its appreciated

 

[Ray]

here is where you get dense and stubborn and start taking personal shots at me. You state a rogue agents(s) and incorrectly quote the bounty hunter episode ( stick to local issues is my advice to you) - as some proof positive of the US immigration/ border security policy arm and ill deeds on their borders .

Dense?

Do forgive me, I cannot stoop to your level of boorishness and street language. If I could bring myself to your low level, I would have told you where you get off in the language that you understand. Apparently, you don't understand gentleman's language.

I am well aware of what is on at the US Border and it is infantile to claim that the atrocities are to be blamed on just a few. If it can happen, then the Border Patrol is a command denied organisation.

While the BSF shooting is not because of some perception on their behalf rather it is the POLICY or WAS to shoot all on sight. In fact I'm surprised "the brigadier " has no clue that INDIA acknowledged and changed their policy! Your arguing a point that has been even accepted by the Inidan govt as been faulty!

I am afraid, you are too obsessed with US policies and so you superimpose it in your befuddled imagination that India has a shoot at sight policy!!! I am not 'the Brigadier'. I am for real! Mods have met me and I am a published person in Defence magazines of the IA. However, your credential is doubtful! You are merely a cyberspace assumption!

do you not get that... or would you like to come back with some old over used y like sticky wicket analogy again? or publish some report from 2003 where a political arm of the US govt ( by moronic bush's cronies)pulled a human rights report to please Israel and re publish it. does that mean they also pulled all human ' rights' from the US? Did that translate to rights being taken away? BTW the as put my " Thoughts food chain" ; was trying to show you an example of silliness when you equate a rogue action(s) to a policy of a governing body" - I'll try to keep my thoughts food chain more precise the next time for you!

Rogue action. Bush;s cronies. You are pathetic.

I am not silly. Guess who is?

Rather infantile I would add.

As far as you disdain for me being American. such pettiness is unbecoming of an officer and gentleman.

Not really. As an Indian, I do take it rather insulting when you assume a moral highhorse berating the posters when you are totally low on substance and high on insults!

Your behaviour is unbecoming of a human being!

I repeat, as in the military it is always considered best to repeat I told by dear wifey: You are arguing a point that even the GOI has accepted was faulty and incorrect and has ordered your former ilk to adhere to. Roger that? 10-4 over and out!

P.S can I inquire what division of the militray you were involved with ?

I fail to see the connection with your wife. How does she come into this?

What has the GoI agreed upon?

There is nothing like 'over and out'.

In radio communication one has to be brief since it can be intercepted.

'Over' means I have finished, have you anything to add.

'Out' means end of transmission.

Even such a simple thing you do not know! But act smart assed to use your americanism!

 

[Ray]

I find that AV has taken action to prevent this thread from getting OT.

jayATl,

As far as my Division is concerned, in the Army you are not in any one Division.

 

[warriorextreme]

i see my post is deleted which was meant for ajtr
i dont consider him/her even remotely indian at all...and i wont debate seriously with such traitors

you have to be indian by heart and not by birth.
here is a good example of that

American political activist who idolised Gandhi dies after setting fire to himself in India

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...its-suicide-northern-India.html#ixzz1CSRlu1hd

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351531/American-political-activist-idolised-Gandhi-commits-suicide-northern-India.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

 

[A.V.]

i see my post is deleted which was meant for ajtr
i dont consider him/her even remotely indian at all...and i wont debate seriously with such traitors

you have to be indian by heart and not by birth.
here is a good example of that

American political activist who idolised Gandhi dies after setting fire to himself in India

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...its-suicide-northern-India.html#ixzz1CSRlu1hd

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351531/American-political-activist-idolised-Gandhi-commits-suicide-northern-India.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

1. IS the Forum based just to debate with Indians ? whats the purpose of a forum them, let me tell you we hardly delete posts but then things were going too bad here with personal remarks which is not good for the health of this thread and forum , let any member be from any part of the world doses not mean we dont show respect or debate if you want to ignore a certain member it can be done via the usercp and those member posts wont be visible to you at all

2.AGAIN I tell you i am sorry we hate to delete posts but do it on compulsion and for the sake of the forum

 

[JayATL]

I find that AV has taken action to prevent this thread from getting OT.

jayATl,

As far as my Division is concerned, in the Army you are not in any one Division.

101st airborne division. The U.S. Army had 28 Divisions - 18 active and 10 National Guard . thought Indian army would have that too. you can have say a 3 star general over a division, in charge of a division.

 

[Contract Killer]

1. IS the Forum based just to debate with Indians ? whats the purpose of a forum them, let me tell you we hardly delete posts but then things were going too bad here with personal remarks which is not good for the health of this thread and forum , let any member be from any part of the world doses not mean we dont show respect or debate if you want to ignore a certain member it can be done via the usercp and those member posts wont be visible to you at all

2.AGAIN I tell you i am sorry we hate to delete posts but do it on compulsion and for the sake of the forum

Hi A.V..................... My respect for you guys have grown further more. By deleting few of my Posts, you have proved that this Forum is not just for Indian, but for every one across the planet.

I knew my post was bit offensive towards Ajtr. It was due to her dirty mentality and hate posts. I dont carry any personal grudges against Ajtr, but my fight with her is of ideology/ her thankless attitude towards the Nation which has given her so much.

Though i will try to restrain from personal attack.............. but i cannot guarantee it.

Regards.......

 

[Ray]

101st airborne division. The U.S. Army had 28 Divisions - 18 active and 10 National Guard . thought Indian army would have that too. you can have say a 3 star general over a division, in charge of a division.

In the IA, all Divisions are active Divisions i.e. have a role in any war.

They have a permanent location. Some Divisions are in active areas and some in peace location.

Divisions are commanded by a Major General (two star).

Personnel in the IA cannot always be in an active area. They will wear out and would have no respite or family life.

Therefore, while the Divisions are in permanent location, the units are rotated to the active division for a tenure and then turned over to a Division in a peace location for training, rest and refit.

The operational environment of the US and the IA are different.

Are US Divisions always composed of the same units?

I am not aware as to how the US Army operates.