Bhagvad Gita faces legal ban in Russia

[Peter]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

I don`t know much about ISKCON`s ..

But i love their cooked food, I visit their place quite often ..

Yes,Kunal Sir I have also visited ISKCON twice.The people there do not haggle you for donations unlike the pandas and priests of some temples in India.Also they allow people of all castes,creed,religion to enter the temple complex unlike some temples in India.I do not understand how people here in DFI can label ISKCON as cheats,crooks etc Those who have not visited ISKCON temple please go there and then comment on their so called "ill doings".I request people not to comment on an organization on hearsay and old wive`s tales. @jackprince

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

Such things cannot be told or explained over net in words, But feel when exposed too ..

So, If you think what is right, Its good enough ..

.I do not understand how people here in DFI can label ISKCON as cheats,crooks etc

 

[jackprince]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

Look at the post I have given about myself.Also please dont teach me about Bengal.i am a Bengali Hindu( Maitra).So stop caring about Bengal and attacking me.My forefathers were zamindars in EB so I think you dont need to explain to me how the partition was for us.Also do not try to enforce your narrow minded views on me.Instead a quote from the Nobel prize winning world poet Rabindranath Tagore might help

Where The Mind Is Without Fear
Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high
Where knowledge is free
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments
By narrow domestic walls
Where words come out from the depth of truth
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way
Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit
Where the mind is led forward by thee
Into ever-widening thought and action
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.

Seems like R. Tagore`s dream would remain a dream.We have been taught to respect all religions including Islam.So I will continue to do so. I only dislike the fanatics and overzealous muslims(like Pakistanis).If you have problems with these just ignore me.

I dont give damn what ur ancestors were. My ancestors were too. Doesn't this give you a idea what happened to those who were not Zamindars? Oh, I need not tell you since u cant understand anyway.

And I don't care to ENFORCE anything on your Open and Wide mind, as if it is not going to open by learning from others' experience then it will only open through experience, which I so dearly wish must never come - as it would mean that another generation of my family would become refugee!

I also once was like you, but I have changed - I don't know whether for better or worse. Am I narrow minded? May be. Do I hate Muslims? Never. Do I fear Islamization? YES! Do I love my religion? Yes. How crazy am I for Hindu supremacy? Don't care. What do I thiink about secular state? Absolutely, but not what is being passed as secularism. What do I think about atheists? Delusional aimless materialistic people.

Btw, your open mindedness is not gonna give you a pass in BD or Pakistan, do you understand?

চিত্ত যেথা ভয়শূন্য, উচ্চ যেথা শির,
জ্ঞান যেথা মুক্ত, যেথা গৃহের প্রাচীর
আপন প্রাঙ্গণতলে দিবসশর্বরী
বসুধারে রাখে নাই খণ্ড ক্ষুদ্র করি,
যেথা বাক্য হৃদয়ের উত্--সমুখ হতে
উচ্ছ্বসিয়া উঠে, যেথা নির্বারিত স্রোতে
দেশে দেশে দিশে দিশে কর্মধারা ধায়
অজস্র সহস্রবিধ চরিতার্থতায়,
যেথা তুচ্ছ আচারের মরুবালুরাশি
বিচারের স্রোতঃপথ ফেলে নাই গ্রাসি--
পৌরুষেরে করে নি শতধা, নিত্য যেথা
তুমি সর্ব কর্ম চিন্তা আনন্দের নেতা,
নিজ হস্তে নির্দয় আঘাত করি, পিতঃ,
ভারতেরে সেই স্বর্গে করো জাগরিত॥[2]

yes, this Tagore's poem dreams of a Utopia; but it is reality not dream. In reality the Muslim like Yusuf or Saya in this forum is hard to find. Even the peaceful bengali muslims are getting hardcore if you'd care to learn. Their attitude is changing day by day. Riots are happening though being suppressed by Govt. and media for the sake of communal harmony. I personally know about desecration of Kali temple in Basirhat, what never made to news.

But the problem is not them, but you. You people think that by opening your minds you would win others' heart. How would you win those madrassa taught people's heart who from their childhood have been taught that you are inferior to them?

Do not reply to me, as I cannot care less. I usually don't get riled up by this much, but when an Idiot says that Hindus would be okey living in a Muslim majority WB, it awakens a deep-rooted fear in my sub-conscious.

 

[jackprince]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

Yes,Kunal Sir I have also visited ISKCON twice.The people there do not haggle you for donations unlike the pandas and priests of some temples in India.Also they allow people of all castes,creed,religion to enter the temple complex unlike some temples in India.I do not understand how people here in DFI can label ISKCON as cheats,crooks etc Those who have not visited ISKCON temple please go there and then comment on their so called "ill doings".I request people not to comment on an organization on hearsay and old wive`s tales. @jackprince

Old wives' tale being account of my uncle of the horror of almost losing their only son? Old wive's tale being ISKON trying to take over hundreds of year old Krishna temple in Mayapur? Old wives' tale being allowing to have sakhi and sakha w/o marriage and propagating the same to be a Hindu norm?

And who said YOU that I have not been there?

I never much cared for Vaishnavistes being a atheist first and then a Shakta - but ISKON takes the cake by presenting a crocked view to Hinduism. They should not say that they propagate Hinduism but ISKONism.

Compared to Ramakrishna Mission these guys are nothing but a opportunistic business group.

 

[Peter]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

I dont give damn what ur ancestors were. My ancestors were too. Doesn't this give you a idea what happened to those who were not Zamindars? Oh, I need not tell you since u cant understand anyway.

And I don't care to ENFORCE anything on your Open and Wide mind, as if it is not going to open by learning from others' experience then it will only open through experience, which I so dearly wish must never come - as it would mean that another generation of my family would become refugee!

I also once was like you, but I have changed - I don't know whether for better or worse. Am I narrow minded? May be. Do I hate Muslims? Never. Do I fear Islamization? YES! Do I love my religion? Yes. How crazy am I for Hindu supremacy? Don't care. What do I thiink about secular state? Absolutely, but not what is being passed as secularism. What do I think about atheists? Delusional aimless materialistic people.

Btw, your open mindedness is not gonna give you a pass in BD or Pakistan, do you understand?

চিত্ত যেথা ভয়শূন্য, উচ্চ যেথা শির,
জ্ঞান যেথা মুক্ত, যেথা গৃহের প্রাচীর
আপন প্রাঙ্গণতলে দিবসশর্বরী
বসুধারে রাখে নাই খণ্ড ক্ষুদ্র করি,
যেথা বাক্য হৃদয়ের উত্--সমুখ হতে
উচ্ছ্বসিয়া উঠে, যেথা নির্বারিত স্রোতে
দেশে দেশে দিশে দিশে কর্মধারা ধায়
অজস্র সহস্রবিধ চরিতার্থতায়,
যেথা তুচ্ছ আচারের মরুবালুরাশি
বিচারের স্রোতঃপথ ফেলে নাই গ্রাসি--
পৌরুষেরে করে নি শতধা, নিত্য যেথা
তুমি সর্ব কর্ম চিন্তা আনন্দের নেতা,
নিজ হস্তে নির্দয় আঘাত করি, পিতঃ,
ভারতেরে সেই স্বর্গে করো জাগরিত॥[2]

yes, this Tagore's poem dreams of a Utopia; but it is reality not dream. In reality the Muslim like Yusuf or Saya in this forum is hard to find. Even the peaceful bengali muslims are getting hardcore if you'd care to learn. Their attitude is changing day by day. Riots are happening though being suppressed by Govt. and media for the sake of communal harmony. I personally know about desecration of Kali temple in Basirhat, what never made to news.

But the problem is not them, but you. You people think that by opening your minds you would win others' heart. How would you win those madrassa taught people's heart who from their childhood have been taught that you are inferior to them?

Do not reply to me, as I cannot care less. I usually don't get riled up by this much, but when an Idiot says that Hindus would be okey living in a Muslim majority WB, it awakens a deep-rooted fear in my sub-conscious.

First of all do not damn my ancestors.Okay I hate that more than anything else.Learn some manners.
Also kindly do not teach me what will happen and what is the reality.I want to hear none of your wise ideas.So spare me from them.I am going to stick to my views.Also if you find my views offensive kindly ignore them next time.It will be a lot better.Now I am truly understanding why our country is so divided.If we fight among ourselves like this you can forget unity.

 

[Pratap]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

I dont give damn what ur ancestors were. My ancestors were too. Doesn't this give you a idea what happened to those who were not Zamindars? Oh, I need not tell you since u cant understand anyway.

And I don't care to ENFORCE anything on your Open and Wide mind, as if it is not going to open by learning from others' experience then it will only open through experience, which I so dearly wish must never come - as it would mean that another generation of my family would become refugee!

I also once was like you, but I have changed - I don't know whether for better or worse. Am I narrow minded? May be. Do I hate Muslims? Never. Do I fear Islamization? YES! Do I love my religion? Yes. How crazy am I for Hindu supremacy? Don't care. What do I thiink about secular state? Absolutely, but not what is being passed as secularism. What do I think about atheists? Delusional aimless materialistic people.

Btw, your open mindedness is not gonna give you a pass in BD or Pakistan, do you understand?

চিত্ত যেথা ভয়শূন্য, উচ্চ যেথা শির,
জ্ঞান যেথা মুক্ত, যেথা গৃহের প্রাচীর
আপন প্রাঙ্গণতলে দিবসশর্বরী
বসুধারে রাখে নাই খণ্ড ক্ষুদ্র করি,
যেথা বাক্য হৃদয়ের উত্--সমুখ হতে
উচ্ছ্বসিয়া উঠে, যেথা নির্বারিত স্রোতে
দেশে দেশে দিশে দিশে কর্মধারা ধায়
অজস্র সহস্রবিধ চরিতার্থতায়,
যেথা তুচ্ছ আচারের মরুবালুরাশি
বিচারের স্রোতঃপথ ফেলে নাই গ্রাসি--
পৌরুষেরে করে নি শতধা, নিত্য যেথা
তুমি সর্ব কর্ম চিন্তা আনন্দের নেতা,
নিজ হস্তে নির্দয় আঘাত করি, পিতঃ,
ভারতেরে সেই স্বর্গে করো জাগরিত॥[2]

yes, this Tagore's poem dreams of a Utopia; but it is reality not dream. In reality the Muslim like Yusuf or Saya in this forum is hard to find. Even the peaceful bengali muslims are getting hardcore if you'd care to learn. Their attitude is changing day by day. Riots are happening though being suppressed by Govt. and media for the sake of communal harmony. I personally know about desecration of Kali temple in Basirhat, what never made to news.

But the problem is not them, but you. You people think that by opening your minds you would win others' heart. How would you win those madrassa taught people's heart who from their childhood have been taught that you are inferior to them?

Do not reply to me, as I cannot care less. I usually don't get riled up by this much, but when an Idiot says that Hindus would be okey living in a Muslim majority WB, it awakens a deep-rooted fear in my sub-conscious.

I never thought that our ideas would match to this degree. Was a pleasant surprise.
I am indeed saddened by prospects of Islamization of an area where Hindu renaissance occured.

 

[jackprince]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

First of all do not damn my ancestors.Okay I hate that more than anything else.Learn some manners.
Also kindly do not teach me what will happen and what is the reality.I want to hear none of your wise ideas.So spare me from them.I am going to stick to my views.Also if you find my views offensive kindly ignore them next time.It will be a lot better.Now I am truly understanding why our country is so divided.If we fight among ourselves like this you can forget unity.

Learn the english language first, then teach me manners.

I told you not to reply to me.

You have a LOT to understand about a lots of thing, being brought up in sheltered environment.

When I understand that you are simply very young, that does not excuse your not engaging the part of your body between your ears.

Hopefully, this time around somebody will come into power to close the sieve called India-BD border.

 

[jackprince]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

First of all do not damn my ancestors.Okay I hate that more than anything else.Learn some manners.
Also kindly do not teach me what will happen and what is the reality.I want to hear none of your wise ideas.So spare me from them.I am going to stick to my views.Also if you find my views offensive kindly ignore them next time.It will be a lot better.Now I am truly understanding why our country is so divided.If we fight among ourselves like this you can forget unity.

Learn the english language first, then teach me manners.

I told you not to reply to me.

You have a LOT to understand about a lots of thing, being brought up in sheltered environment.

When I understand that you are simply very young, that does not excuse your not engaging the part of your body between your ears.

Hopefully, this time around somebody will come into power to close the sieve called India-BD border.

 

[Pratap]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

First of all do not damn my ancestors.Okay I hate that more than anything else.Learn some manners.
Also kindly do not teach me what will happen and what is the reality.I want to hear none of your wise ideas.So spare me from them.I am going to stick to my views.Also if you find my views offensive kindly ignore them next time.It will be a lot better.Now I am truly understanding why our country is so divided.If we fight among ourselves like this you can forget unity.

Your thoughts do not deserve to be ignored. We can debate on AIT and Prithviraj and may differ but if someone is happy with muslim majority, it is almost certain that others would respond harshly. You have problems with Russians because they may ban Geeta but on other hand, you are happy with destruction of hundreds of temples in East Bengal.

 

[Razor]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

Your thoughts do not deserve to be ignored. We can debate on AIT and Prithviraj and may differ but if someone is happy with muslim majority, it is almost certain that others would respond harshly. You have problems with Russians because they may ban Geeta but on other hand, you are happy with destruction of hundreds of temples in East Bengal.

For the millionth time, it is not the Gita, but an interpretation of the Gita and the case has been thrown out by the Russian courts. Stop spreading false information.

 

[Pratap]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

Learn the english language first, then teach me manners.

I told you not to reply to me.

You have a LOT to understand about a lots of thing, being brought up in sheltered environment.

When I understand that you are simply very young, that does not excuse your not engaging the part of your body between your ears.

Hopefully, this time around somebody will come into power to close the sieve called India-BD border.

Modiji will do that. Media has ignored but I have noted that he has ideas of sheltering BD Hindus too. Believe me, as i write these lines, I am sad about fate of 12 million innocent Hindus living a hellish life in that so called "liberal and sufi minded" Bangladesh. If there is some justice, we should have a government which can threaten BD for its persecution of Hindus just like Ranjit Singh did with Amirs of Sindh.

Sir, my PM facilities are not available now and if you do not mind, could you please tell me why Islamization occured in East Bengal? I have read many books but fail to get any answer. Stupid theories like "caste tyranny" are nonsense. Please note that Bengal(east) was ruled by Muslims only for 5 centuries just like west bengal so why such high number of Muslims?

 

[Peter]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

Learn the english language first, then teach me manners.

I told you not to reply to me.

You have a LOT to understand about a lots of thing, being brought up in sheltered environment.

When I understand that you are simply very young, that does not excuse your not engaging the part of your body between your ears.

Hopefully, this time around somebody will come into power to close the sieve called India-BD border.

Please do not double quote.I do not want to go to flame wars with you.However if you think that I would let you off after you damned my ancestors then you are wrong.Also for your information I got very good marks in English in both my X and XII ISC examinations.I also used to get the highest marks in English in my school.So I think I do know English.i think you are older than me so I do not wish to argue with you anymore.This would be the last time I would reply to you unless you flame-bait me again.

 

[Pratap]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

For the millionth time, it is not the Gita, but an interpretation of the Gita and the case has been thrown out by the courts.

I know. I used that for sake of brevity. I have the version which has caused this furore in Hindi. It is written by Bengali founder of ISKON Prabhupada and is quite sectarian. ISKON is busy with whites and hence , Prabhupada tried to assimilate Jesus as yet another avatar. Perhaps this is what that enraged the orthodox Russians.

 

[Peter]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

Modiji will do that. Media has ignored but I have noted that he has ideas of sheltering BD Hindus too. Believe me, as i write these lines, I am sad about fate of 12 million innocent Hindus living a hellish life in that so called "liberal and sufi minded" Bangladesh. If there is some justice, we should have a government which can threaten BD for its persecution of Hindus just like Ranjit Singh did with Amirs of Sindh.

Sir, my PM facilities are not available now and if you do not mind, could you please tell me why Islamization occured in East Bengal? I have read many books but fail to get any answer. Stupid theories like "caste tyranny" are nonsense. Please note that Bengal(east) was ruled by Muslims only for 5 centuries just like west bengal so why such high number of Muslims?

Simple,Pratap there were a lot of Shudras(I dont think they are called dalits but shudras) in West Bengal.They had been oppressed and treated badly for centuries.Also Raja Ballal Sen had imposed stern measures against them.There were other factors like payment of jizyah during drought etc.Also some people from higher castes were forcibly converted to Islam(told you about Pirali Brahmins) by Nawabs.That is why there is a large population of Muslims in Bengal.

 

[Razor]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

I know. I used that for sake of brevity. I have the version which has caused this furore in Hindi. It is written by Bengali founder of ISKON Prabhupada and is quite sectarian. ISKON is busy with whites and hence , Prabhupada tried to assimilate Jesus as yet another avatar. Perhaps this is what that enraged the orthodox Russians.

Yes I read the book in question: "Bhagavad Gita As It Is" (Sanskrit version with English translation) after borrowing it from a friend last year.
You are probably right about why some Russians took it to court.
Russians are nationalistic, no doubt about that and nothing wrong with that. They (some) have even assimilated some ideas of the vedic religion and now called it Slavic Vedism (this gives the Russians a sense of belonging to it.)
A nation which loses its nationalism will cease to exist.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

Tell me, what is wrong in what Putin has said. Tell me one thing that is wrong with what he said.
Why should Russia bow to Sharia ?
Why should Russia let its culture and language erode for the sake of people who come from elsewhere ? Because other countries do it ?
(Yes there are many languages indigenous to Russia and a lot of these languages are official in their own republic. Note that a republic is a sub-national entity (of the Russian Federation) which is considered homeland of the indigenous people that live there)
Why should special privileges be given to any minorities ? What makes any minority special ?

I believe Kunal has spelled out very clearly what Russia stands for & that is:

Russia is meant for Russians & that is nothing to be apologetic or embarrassed about. Any self-respecting nation should understand that. That is how I want India to be.

India for Indians alone. Not for Sharia-types & chest-beating NGO fanatics who have the misplaced audacity to address ex-COAS in a demeaning manner.

 

[Pratap]

R.tagore-1
Amartya Sen-1
Mohammed Yunus(I consider him a bengali and part of our culture)-1
Also Mother Teresa did most of her work in Kolkata.But let me leave her out.This is not a Nobel Prize thread but this is what is truth.

OK still your claim that Bengalis got most N prizes is wrong as M Teresa was an Albanian and that leaves us with only 3. MYunus got for Peace which again is subjective. Anyway, I have already said that Bengal was home of hindu renaissance so it is not that I am saying anything derogatory.

 

[Pratap]

Re: Massive Russian Military Movement

Simple,Pratap there were a lot of Shudras(I dont think they are called dalits but shudras) in West Bengal.They had been opressed and treated badly for centuries.Also Raja Ballal Sen had imposed stern measures against them.There were other factors like payment of jizyah during drought etc.Also some people from higher castes were forcibly converted to Islam(told you about Pirali Brahmins) by Nawabs.That is why there is a large population of Muslims in Bengal.

Thanks for response. I thought that sudras were also there in Bihar and UP and that too in large numbers. Anyway, if they converted to escape caste tyranny, why West Bengal Hindu sudras did not convert? In 1901, WB had more than 75 percent of its population as Hindu so are you saying that caste was not bad in WB but was oppressive in East Bengal?

 

[Peter]

OK still your claim that Bengalis got most N prizes is wrong as M Teresa was an Albanian and that leaves us with only 3. MYunus got for Peace which again is subjective. Anyway, I have already said that Bengal was home of hindu renaissance so it is not that I am saying anything derogatory.

Actually 2 out of 3 Tamil noble prize winners were US citizens(S. Chandrasekhar,V. Ramakrishnan-US citizen.Remember both R.Tagore,Mother Teresa and Amartya Sen were/are Indian citizens)
In that sense if you leave out M.Yunus it will be 2-1 for us.

 

[Pratap]

I believe Kunal has spelled out very clearly what Russia stands for & that is:

Russia is meant for Russians & that is nothing to be apologetic or embarrassed about. Any self-respecting nation should understand that. That is how I want India to be.

India for Indians alone. Not for Sharia-types & chest-beating NGO fanatics who have the misplaced audacity to address ex-COAS in a demeaning manner.

India for Indians means that just like Russia we recognize that there does exist a national group with its own distinctive culture, language and national heroes and we ask communities to integrate with us not allow them to have veto.
Syrian Christians, Armenians, Zoroastrians and Buddhists from Tibet have been shown how we treat communities distinct from national group. No reason why we should be apologetic about displaying Hindu symbols at national ceremonies. What is Hindu is unique to us, what is un hindu is relic of foreign conquerors. No more, no less.