Armored Personnel Carriers & Infantry Fighting Vehicles

[farhan_9909]

@Keshav Murali

as per serbian defence minister and serbian sources pakistan bought the manufacturing facility aka under license production
as per a serbian member on def.pk pakistan had signed a deal with serbia for lazar 2 when it was not even revealed to the public

Lazar 2 is not a MRAP but rather a MRAV

courtesy a serbian member

Because Lazar 2 is not MRAP. It has some characteristics of MRAP like side windows, but in whole it's a MRAV vehicle like Patria AMV or GTK Boxer. After all first we need to know the needs of Pakistan army.

MRAP vehicles are basically armored buses, with V shaped hull and highly raised chassis, lightly armed (in most cases with 7.62 or 12.7mm machine guns), but with a high resistance to IEDs. So basically they are god for patrolling the roads, and stuf like that.

While MRAV vehicles can be used for many other things, depending on the vehicle configuration. You can put something like Protector RWS on them and they will practly be armored transporters. But if you put on them some additional armor, slat cage and 30mm RWS, you will get an IVF.

Only real advantage of MRAP over MRAV vehicle is their higher resistance to IED. But for one modern MRAV vehicle, you can probably buy 5 modern MRAP vehicles

some more detail of the machine

 

[Blackwater]

@Keshav Murali

as per serbian defence minister and serbian sources pakistan bought the manufacturing facility aka under license production
as per a serbian member on def.pk pakistan had signed a deal with serbia for lazar 2 when it was not even revealed to the public

Lazar 2 is not a MRAP but rather a MRAV

courtesy a serbian member



some more detail of the machine

serious Q

who will pay??

pls respond seriously

 

[farhan_9909]

serious Q

who will pay??

pls respond seriously

should not be your concern

Must be paid from the 6billions dollars+ budget of army

 

[Blackwater]

should not be your concern

Must be paid from the 6billions dollars+ budget of army

how will those 6 billions $$ comes ???

hope its not from IMF 5 billion $$

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Why you didn't buy Chinese, brother?

BTW, Lazar seems good enough vehicle. IA needs to modernize our wheeled APCs which I think are now long overdue.

Specs? Well let me see....

> ERA
> Good SATCOMMs and Radios
> + 20 HP/ton Power to weight
> Ceiling mounted seats like Lazar
> Auto Cannon + Missile firing

@ersakthivel, @Kunalbiswas and other Gurus, input please......

Pakistan signed a contract with serbia for 100 lazar 2 MPV

 

[farhan_9909]

@kushalappa

last year we signed a deal with China for unknown number of vp3 mrap aswell but lazar 2 is more of an long term plan with local manufacturing aswell

beside this lazar 2 is not a mrap but rather a multi purpose armoured vehicle which means lazar 2 can be modified for variety of roles

 

[Akim]

The declared characteristics, "Lazar-2" good APC. But weakened lateral projection.

 

[The Last Stand]

The declared characteristics, "Lazar-2" good APC. But weakened lateral projection.

You mean the side protection?

 

[Akim]

You mean the side protection?

Yes, of course. Forgot this word. Armored glass, severely undermining the protection. On the other photo, shows that they are not thick. Direct hit fragments may damage it. Although the Serbs have good battle experience. They probably calculated margin of safety.

 

[methos]

Yes, of course. Forgot this word. Armored glass, severely undermining the protection. On the other photo, shows that they are not thick. Direct hit fragments may damage it. Although the Serbs have good battle experience. They probably calculated margin of safety.

The "armoured glass" might be transparent ceramic armour. It is possible to achieve protection against 14.5 mm AP from 200 m (STANAG 4569 level 4) with transparent ceramic layers and transparent polymers (used as foil in order to keep the ceramic tile from falling apart).

 

[bhramos]

Falar mal muitos falam.
Eu quero ver BATER DE FRENTE!
"CAVEIRAS AVANÇAR"

 

[Akim]

SP ATGM for Thailand based on the BTR-3 (BTR-3RK)

 

[The Last Stand]

SP ATGM for Thailand based on the BTR-3 (BTR-3RK)

Which ATGM is that? Metis-M?

 

[Akim]

Which ATGM is that? Metis-M?

No. 130-mm Barrier and 152-mm Shmel (Bumblebee).

 

[farhan_9909]

So they arrived before the withrawal.need alot of repairing.

Time for HIT to start the reverse engineering and strip them down into pieces

 

[Dazzler]

Lazar 2 in Pakistan..



Speaking on Tuesday in Belgrade, he added that EUR 75 million will be invested "this year only."

Vučić was touring Defense Expo Partner 2013 when he stressed that the investments would be "strictly controlled to ensure they were used for improving production."

"There is room for more jobs in the defense industry and potential for Serbia to show the world it can still do what it used to be most successful at," he noted, adding he expected new employees soon at Utva, a Pančevo based company that makes training aircraft.

"You could see here the significant improvements we have achieved when it comes to drones, radar systems, radiogoniometers and everything else the Military Technical Institute has designed and defense companies made," Vučić stated.

"It proves Serbia is capable of keeping up with world trends when it comes to the defense industry," he pointed out.

He was "particularly pleased," Tanjug reported, with the unveiling of the armored vehicle Lazar2, which was improved significantly compared to its predecessor.

"Lazar2 is up to three times cheaper than its counterpart from Finland, Patria, and its advantages in price and equipment are proven by the fact that buyers have already been found and that 3 vehicles have been sold to Pakistan,"Vučić said.

Commenting on the negotiations with the Russian side about buying new combat aircraft, Vučić remarked he expected "a new round of talks in order to find the best arrangement for Serbia."

equipped with Zastava autocannon

its a TOT agreement with Serbs

 

[Akim]

The price of the Patria AMV. is 1.3-1.8 million dollars. Can't Lazar2 cost three times cheaper. This is a deception. Only autocannon M98 costs about 7 thousand dollars.

 

[methos]

The price of the Patria AMV. is 1.3-1.8 million dollars. Can't Lazar2 cost three times cheaper. This is a deception. Only autocannon M98 costs about 7 thousand dollars.

272 Boxers and support equipment costed 891 million € (so a single one with support equipment would roughly cost about 3.2 million € or 4.3 million U.S. dollars).

 

[farhan_9909]

272 Boxers and support equipment costed 891 million € (so a single one with support equipment would roughly cost about 3.2 million € or 4.3 million U.S. dollars).

This is more expensive than even the Al khalid tank?

why this so?

 

[methos]

This is more expensive than even the Al khalid tank?

why this so?

Expensive technology and reduced orders. Originally it was planned to have several thousand Boxers in NATO service. The Boxer is the result of a military procurement programme of four countries (France, UK, Netherlands, Germany). The French government decided to drop out of the programme, after the French prototype (made by the state owned GIAT) lost in the trials to the Boxer (which is a co-development of Germany and the Netherlands). The UK later decided also to drop out because they decided to copy the American idea of a Future Combat System with their FRES (Future Rapid Effect System) programme. In the FRES programme they still considered the Boxer as one of the possible wheeled ground vehicles, but later decided to favour the Piranha V, just to decide a few months later that the Piranha V is not meeting their requirements (and since then there hasn't been any attempts to procure a new wheeled plattform).

This resulted in the Germans and Dutch having to pay most of the development and procurement costs by themselves, even though it was planned originally that all four countries would pay them. But the most important factor is the downsizing of the contracts. It was planned that the initial order (after France dropped out) would be a minium of 600 vehicles (instead of 472) and possible be above 800. The total required amount of Boxers was believed to be more than 1,000 vehicles per country - iirc. the UK was estimated to need 1,500 6 x 6 Boxers and some 600 8 x 8 Boxers (but the 6 x 6 version was canceled after the UK dropped out of the programme).

Follow-on orders for the Boxer from Germany and the Netherlands were/are very unlikely, so the whole development cost for a programmed planned to create more than 4,000 vehicles were distributed on just 472 vehicles, But apparently Saudi-Arabia and Qatar have shown interest in the Boxer. It has been claimed in various newspapers that the Saudi-Arabian order alone would be 800 to 1,000 newly built Boxers. But the German export laws have slowed down (and possibly even prevented) this sale.