AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[slayingheaven]

ak

also rafale is a small'er' aircraft so it require more compact engines m88 weight is 890kg vs 1100 of f414 it also shorter thinner than that of f414

Sigh, the statement "rafale is a smaller aircraft so it requires more compact engines" is wrong. You design a plane around engines available, the statement should be " the engines are compact enough such that the rafale is compact" not otherway.

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

Sigh, the statement "rafale is a smaller aircraft so it requires more compact engines" is wrong. You design a plane around engines available, the statement should be " the engines are compact enough such that the rafale is compact" not otherway.

yeah not like us where we sit with 73kn engine for years either ways thanks for correcting

 

[Blood+]

I know what supercruise is..you obviously don't know what supercruise is when you say "why Snecma M-88 was not considered when it has supercruise and F-414 doesnt"..as if an engine has supercruise instead of the airplane that is is powering.

M-88 is a 75 kN afterburning thrust engine and you're saying "it has supercruise" whereas the GE F-414 with 98 kN afterburning thrust does not?!

But I still cannot understand why they didn't go for the EPE version??!!

 

[Satish Sharma]

Did metal cutting not start some 2 years back?

Not of all parts.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Sigh, the statement "rafale is a smaller aircraft so it requires more compact engines" is wrong. You design a plane around engines available, the statement should be " the engines are compact enough such that the rafale is compact" not otherway.

It all depends on aerodynamics guys one can achieve super cruise with even less thrust if aircraft is more aerodynamic..
Super Cruise is game of aerodynamic.
No engine no compact body nothing like that..

Rafale with 4 missile & centre line supersonic ext. Fuel tank could reach around mach 1.4-1.5 without afterburner.. whereas eurofighter can reach mach 1.1x (~1.2)With a2a payload
( eurofighter can semi submerge it's missile in body like kf21) means less drag..

Point to note rafale has 2x 50kn dry thrust producing engines & eurofighter has 2x60kn dry thrust producing engines. However it can be increased to 70kn incase of emergency for very short span...
Still rafale can reach mach 1.5 and eurofighter can't even surpass mach 1.2

So it all depends on aerodynamic also empty weight of aircraft it is stated that rafale c weights 10 tons and eurofighter 11 tons..
I always felt the snecma m88-4e engine used in rafale must be making alot more power than what they have said. It's engine has evolved over the period from m88-1 to current m884e.
It just hard to believe 2x 50kn can do this much.. anyways this is my assumption if it not the case
Then rafale is truly epitome of aerodynamic
And also it is easy for delta wings to supercruise compared to conventional wing design..as deltas have less drag at supersonic & transonic flight...

 

[Blood+]

It all depends on aerodynamics guys one can achieve super cruise with even less thrust if aircraft is more aerodynamic..
Super Cruise is game of aerodynamic.
No engine no compact body nothing like that..

Rafale with 4 missile & centre line supersonic ext. Fuel tank could reach around mach 1.4-1.5 without afterburner.. whereas eurofighter can reach mach 1.1x (~1.2)With a2a payload
( eurofighter can semi submerge it's missile in body like kf21) means less drag..

Point to note rafale has 2x 50kn dry thrust producing engines & eurofighter has 2x60kn dry thrust producing engines. However it can be increased to 70kn incase of emergency for very short span...
Still rafale can reach mach 1.5 and eurofighter can't even surpass mach 1.2

So it all depends on aerodynamic also empty weight of aircraft it is stated that rafale c weights 10 tons and eurofighter 11 tons..
I always felt the snecma m88-4e engine used in rafale must be making alot more power than what they have said. It's engine has evolved over the period from m88-1 to current m884e.
It just hard to believe 2x 50kn can do this much.. anyways this is my assumption if it not the case
Then rafale is truly epitome of aerodynamic
And also it is easy for delta wings to supercruise compared to conventional wing design..as deltas have less drag at supersonic & transonic flight...

Are we absolutely certain those supercruise figures of Rafale are correct??

 

[Satish Sharma]

Are we absolutely certain those supercruise figures of Rafale are correct??

 

[NutCracker]

But I still cannot understand why they didn't go for the EPE version??!!

I guess it's not developed yet . Probably we would've had to shell out 100s of millions for something which won't yield any IPR to us.

 

[slayingheaven]

My wish is AMCA could be like this, maximizing stealth. Atleast would be nice in AMCA mk2View attachment 244276

 

[Blood+]

I guess it's not developed yet . Probably we would've had to shell out 100s of millions for something which won't yield any IPR to us.

I see. In that case, good call.

 

[Satish Sharma]

But I still cannot understand why they didn't go for the EPE version??!!

Air mass flow rate, cost,
And do you really think they will give us TOT of a engine as modern as f119..
Its dry thrust is 75kn has reduced 6hp stages & has more life. It is just one step behind reaching the level of f119(116kn dry thrust and 156kn wet thrust..) with just 3 stage fan &6 HP stages. & still has got ~9k hrs life.
They had offered us for amca mk2 hope we don't go for it. If we go for mk2 then we will get it's tot.
Engine developed with France will have even more electric output and high bypass ratio..if possible variable bypass too...

I guess it's not developed yet . Probably we would've had to shell out 100s of millions for something which won't yield any IPR to us.

It is already developed us navy has even ordered it.. it hasn't gotten on all f18s..
But it has gotten on all dedicated electronic Warfare f18s & some extra f18s too.

Are we absolutely certain those supercruise figures of Rafale are correct??

They have said it so lets believe them..
There are going to be more complexities like altitude at above x altitude only etc etc.

 

[NutCracker]

It is already developed us navy has even ordered it.. it hasn't gotten on all f18s..
But it has gotten on all dedicated electronic Warfare f18s & some extra f18s too.

You sure about it actually been fitted into f18 SH / Growler??
Last I checked one year back and no such news was there

 

[Phantom001]

I know what supercruise is..you obviously don't know what supercruise is when you say "why Snecma M-88 was not considered when it has supercruise and F-414 doesnt"..as if an engine has supercruise instead of the airplane that is is powering.

M-88 is a 75 kN afterburning thrust engine and you're saying "it has supercruise" whereas the GE F-414 with 98 kN afterburning thrust does not?!

Thanks

 

[slayingheaven]

Air mass flow rate, cost,
And do you really think they will give us TOT of a engine as modern as f119..
Its dry thrust is 75kn has reduced 6hp stages & has more life. It is just one step behind reaching the level of f119(116kn dry thrust and 156kn wet thrust..) with just 3 stage fan &6 HP stages. & still has got ~9k hrs life.
They had offered us for amca mk2 hope we don't go for it. If we go for mk2 then we will get it's tot.
Engine developed with France will have even more electric output and high bypass ratio..if possible variable bypass too...


It is already developed us navy has even ordered it.. it hasn't gotten on all f18s..
But it has gotten on all dedicated electronic Warfare f18s & some extra f18s too.


They have said it so lets believe them..
There are going to be more complexities like altitude at above x altitude only etc etc.
View attachment 244287View attachment 244288

Also another thing important in future Engines for 5th/6th gen aircraft is Electric Power output, in this regard the Japanese XF9 produces some gigantic 180kW alone on one engine and has 360kW in two engines. With such power high energy lasers to decimate incoming missiles(atleast the seekers) is possible. F-35 has 160kW and it can maul any plane easily. Now imagine such 360kW power on a 5th/6th gen jet.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Also another thing important in future Engines for 5th/6th gen aircraft is Electric Power output, in this regard the Japanese XF9 produces some gigantic 180kW alone on one engine and has 360kW in two engines. With such power high energy lasers to decimate incoming missiles(atleast the seekers) is possible.

I have heard that RR too achieved some gigantic breakthrough they fitted a motors in the axle/shaft of engine which would Turn engine on and generate electric power output too...
Hope indi French engine will have this thing too...

 

[Satish Sharma]

You sure about it actually been fitted into f18 SH / Growler??
Last I checked one year back and no such news was there

Not sure of growler but us navy has received 78 f18 block 3, which has f414 epe.. so it is developed airborne in operation,
That order of epe was my mistake..

 

[Satish Sharma]

Amca to takeoff with in 4.5 years - project director Krishna rajendra
Production will take 10 years,by 2034 for amca mk1..
Kuch nhi ho sakta Bhai 10 saal Bina stealth aircraft ke rahenge hum..
Ye log inte lambe chodte hai yaar.
'first prototype will roll out in 3 years and all prototypes will be delivered in 5 years'

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

Amca to takeoff with in 4.5 years - project director Krishna rajendra

good i already said somewhere that 3 is very tight timeline 4.5 seem right
either ways i want to see mrfa and tejas mk2 to materialize quickly they would be our bread and butter fighter jets for at least 2050

 

[mokoman]

Amca to takeoff with in 4.5 years - project director Krishna rajendra
Production will take 10 years,by 2034 for amca mk1..
Kuch nhi ho sakta Bhai 10 saal Bina stealth aircraft ke rahenge hum..
Ye log inte lambe chodte hai yaar.
'first prototype will roll out in 3 years and all prototypes will be delivered in 5 years'

but 5th gen fighter from nothing to first flight in 4.5 years is amazing ?

i only hope it happens in that timeline . most likely will end up getting delayd

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

but 5th gen fighter from nothing to first flight in 4.5 years is amazing ?

i only hope it happens in that timeline .

thats where the catch is hope they stick to THEIR timeline