China disarming India without fighting

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Yusuf, Feb 25, 2013.

  1. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    China disarming India without fighting | Niti Central


    More than 2,000 years back, Sun Tzu, the author of the Art of War wrote, “For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill; to subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.”

    If I was a Chinese general and keen to defeat India without combating, do you know what I would do?

    I would provide ‘proofs’ that foreign arms dealers have corrupted some Indian officials or politicians by paying hefty ‘commissions’. I would repeat this for each and every armament deal.

    The result would be terrific. The Indian Ministry of Defence would immediately cancel all the deals, no more arms for the three Indian services! It would be rather easy to realise. One just has to ‘inform’ the Indian Government that something has gone wrong in the procurement process, and ‘someone’ has taken money.

    So easy to do and easy to believe! The reverse would be unbelievable.

    A few days ago, a US company, Mandiant, identified the People’s Liberation Army’s Shanghai-based unit 61398 as the organisation behind most computer attacks against the United States. Through Unit 61398, I would leak some ‘details’ about the bribes to the MoD or better, to a gullible ‘breaking news’ channel.

    Mandiant’s detailed 60-page study tracked individuals of a sophisticated hacking group, known in the United States as ‘Comment Crew’. The report said, “The activity we have directly observed likely represents only a small fraction of the cyber espionage that APT1 has conducted.” APT1 stands for ‘Advanced Persistent Threat’, the most dominant being termed APT1.

    The report continues, “We have analysed the group’s intrusions against nearly 150 victims over seven years. We uncovered (in Shanghai) a substantial amount of APT1’s attack infrastructure, command and control, and modus operandi (tools, tactics, and procedures) Our research found that People’s Liberation Army (PLA’s) Unit 61398 is similar to APT1 in its mission, capabilities, and resources.”

    Further, it was discovered that PLA Unit 61398 is located exactly in the place from which APT1 activity originates.

    As a Chinese general, I would have the perfect tool to win the war. Let us take an example, the latest scam or Choppergate.

    In 2010, the Government signed a Rs 4,000 crore contract for procurement of 12 AW101 helicopters from the Anglo-Italian firm AgustaWestland for the use of Indian VVIPs. Three of the 12 helicopters ordered have already been delivered (and an advance of 40 per cent has been paid).

    Citing an ‘integrity clause’, Defence Minister AK Antony immediately announced that the contract will be cancelled and a show-cause notice was sent to the company to this effect.

    Defence expert, Ajai Shukla commented in Business Standard, “Defence Minister AK Antony’s ‘strong action’ against Italian defence giant Finmeccanica, and its Anglo-Italian helicopter subsidiary, AgustaWestland, is aimed at making him sound like a man of steel.”

    Now, Antony has no proof of any offence as yet, as the Italian prosecutors in Milan have refused to share incriminating documents with India. This is logical as the trial has not yet started, but it does not matter as, in India, loud voices have started asking for a ban. One commentator even suggested cancelling the deal for 126 Rafales because the fighter planes of Dassault Aviation were armed with missiles manufactured by the European company MBDA, of which Finmeccanica is a minority shareholder.

    The rule, say the babus, is when a defence firm, Indian or foreign, comes under a corruption cloud, not only are all its contracts, present and the future, cancelled, but the entire group of companies are blacklisted and they can’t work in India for a minimum of 10 years.

    According to this thinking, Dassault would be banned because Rafale may use weapons made by MBDA; the French firm being owned by BAE (37.5 per cent) and EADS (37.5 per cent). The Rafale’s rival Eurofighter would also be banned as Finmeccanica is part of the Eurofighter GMBH consortium, etc, etc, etc.

    At the end, I, the Chinese general will effortlessly win the war, because India will not get a single piece of armament required for its defence and this, for the next one or two decades. I would merely have to leak some credible information into a few Indian computers.

    Some will say, “It is a good thing; we shall now indigenise the defence production.” Faster said than done, the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft has been on the HAL drawing table for the past decades. Air Chief NAK Browne recently declared, “By my estimate the Initial Operational Clearance should be by the end of 2013 and the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) should take another year-and-half more.” Ditto for many DRDO projects.

    So, as a Chinese general, I would used Unit 61398 or any other ‘research labs’ to pass on to South Block the information that there is something ‘fishy’ in each and every armament deal and the trick will be done.

    The next day, the MoD will ‘cancel’ the deal using the ‘termination clause’.

    I would subdue my enemy without a fight! That’s skill! India’s tragedy is that it prefers to punish the bribe-givers and leave free the bribe-takers and then ban the former in order to look honest. Unless the rotten apples are booked, the Chinese generals will keep laughing.

    Separate issue: I am wondering what the Ministry of Defence is doing against Unit 61398 or its sister/brother concerns? Whether one likes it or not, cyberwar will be tomorrow’s war; the Chinese are far in advance on us in this field.
     
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  3. natarajan

    natarajan Senior Member Senior Member

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    Is antony aware of this
     
  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    It's for us people to realize who keep crying hoarse about corruption in arms deals and stop every single deal.

    I really don't care about the money swindled as getting weapons for our forces is more important than some scoundrels making money.what was the nett result of Bofors? Money never came back but we didn't purchase another gun since. That's 30 years! Actually the Chinese don't even have to do all that. We Indians are adept in screwing ourselves.
     
  5. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Why would 61398 hv to do this? Could it be Dassault alike playing this against AgustaWestland ? Competition! Good! Cyberwars launched by Sun Tzu or Chinese generals have made these deals suspicious. Pls resume them :p Hopefully such witch hunting can be helpful in India's election campaigns too - Blame it on Chinese!
     
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  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    All options are on the table. The Eurofighter team itself tried the corruotion card to nix the Rafale deal. Te easiest way to cancel a defence deal in India is to day kickbacks were paid.
     
  7. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Anyway babus will take bribes whoever the deal is awarded to. So long as India doesn't do "copycat" like China it always procures from them.

    And these European firms are doing this all the way. Nothing new. Sourcing from A or B makes no difference. Keep buying pls

     
  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    There will be corruotion in arms purchase no matter where or no matter how hard one tries to prevent. The scale of it is very big for anyone to NOT indulge. Like I said, this whole liasoning thing costs a lot of money. The Bofors was and still remains a bloody good gun.

    Good equipments cost a lot. Sometimes when people are looking at just te price (as India was doing till a few years back) these top class manufacturers hire people to make sure their products are sold. That costs money. Well not a bad thing for the forces in the end if they get a good weapons platform. Imagine if India had not selected Bofors and some lower capability gun was inducted, India would have found it difficult in Kargil.

    Many of these top manufacturers pay money to get the tender raise the bar in terms of capability or pay directly to people deciding. No one will deny that the Rafale is a bloody good bird. Doesn't come cheap but it is capable.
    But look at the tender, it was widened to include all kinds of birds "to increase competition". Who knows how many people were paid to "widen" this competition. But who can complain if the Rafale enters service.

    However when money is given to swing a sale of a lower quality or tech product, that is dangerous overall. Like how Agusta did by paying money to lower the service ceiling requirement.
     
  9. vishwaprasad

    vishwaprasad Regular Member

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    Didn't Rafale come out CLEAN after Antony asked to investigate the whole process when that stupid Mysoora Reddy raised doubts?

    Now here I am little confused....Is there a 100% possibility of Rafale deal getting scrapped or this is just being imagined....hope its just an imagination....If Rafale gets cancelled then it would be the saddest day for me.... :(
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  10. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Buy American so that there will be no insinuations of corruption.
     
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  11. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Anything is possible in India. It will be sad not only for your but the entire coutry especially the Air Force whose numbers are decreasing drastically.
     
  12. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Stupid article.

    Last I heard the blanket ban on banned defence firms will be lifted without notice. In future, there will be no ban but penalties and court cases through the 'integrity clause'.
     
  13. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    What DD said. Stupid article. If anything there is only one lesson for India in this whole melee. Make our weapons ourselves.
     
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  14. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    There will be corruption even if Indian companies produce world class weapons and compete with each other. Perhaps we should learn from the US system of weapons development and production.
     
  15. vishwaprasad

    vishwaprasad Regular Member

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    Yes it will be very sad for whole nation and Air Force....looks like these days halting India's defense procurement plans is a child's play. Anyone can come,raise doubts and our stupid MOD will stop or delay the entire process....what was the use of those testings by IAF through out the years to select a fighter when any tom, dick and harry can come and stop it just by writing a letter to MOD....god save this nation.....
     
  16. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Crucial deals will continue even if there are corruption allegations. Eg: Barak deal.
     
  17. vishwaprasad

    vishwaprasad Regular Member

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    But they will be delayed further...
     
  18. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Barak isn't delayed. It is on schedule.

    The corruption allegation was for Barak 1.
     
  19. vishwaprasad

    vishwaprasad Regular Member

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    Hope it does not affect Rafale deal as well and deal is done ASAP.
     
  20. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Chinese conspiracy, Pakistani conspiracy, competition, aliens at work, and more ...... ?

    This will keep happening till we don't find home grown solutions.

    Our way is look outside for solutions, delay the decision for as long as we can, forget that there is a good private sector back home that needs to be engaged rather extensively, when failures seen outside, look for inefficient solutions within in the form of DPSUs, and they utterly fail, as they keep doing, then say we can't produce anything worth while.

    It was high time the private sector was trusted, and cultivated.

    A better article would have been how China, when faced with weapons embargo, looked inside for solutions, that is something we want to conveniently ignore for they must be manufacturing "junk", and when they come up with hi-tech stuff, we start to look for lame excuses again!

    As is the perception of the Indian way, no firm decisions will be taken but as usual we will argue senselessly, and again nothing to show, and another 10 years wasted.
     
  21. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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