DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[ersakthivel]

@Khagesh you talk of Navy, then here it is

Research and Development activities need to be dynamic in order to cope with the highly complex and technology intensive requirements of the Navy. The development of equipment, sonar systems, underwater weapons and materials for naval platforms such as ships, submarines and aircrafts require incorporation and integration of multi-disciplinary technologies. To achieve this, the Directorate of Naval Research & Development (DNRD) at DRDO HQ acts as the interface and facilitates effective interaction between Indian Navy and DRDO Labs. The Directorate deals with technologies in areas such as underwater Weapons, underwater Sensors, Naval Materials and Marine Biology, underwater Ranges, Oceanography, Ship Hydrodynamics and Structure, and Fuel Cell and Marine Stealth.

DRDO has a network of three naval laboratories, viz. Naval Material Research Laboratory (NMRL), Ambernath with competency in metallurgy, polymer science and technology; Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL), Kochi engaged in the design and development of underwater surveillance systems and Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL), Visakhapatnam, dedicated to the design and development of
underwater weapons and associated systems for the Navy.

Like other DRDO laboratories, Naval Laboratories also take up Mission Mode (MM)/Staff projects, Technology Demonstration projects (TD)/Research and Development projects (R&D)/Science and Technology (S&T) and Infrastructure Facility (IF) projects.

http://www.saiindia.gov.in/english/...n_compliance/2014/Defence/Report_4/Chap_6.pdf

In the same way F-35 project is an even bigger disaster,

A Rusian FGFA prototype about to take off on an airshow caught fire and failed to take off,Its engines and radars far from completion, It was sanctioned in 1990s.

Armata the recent russian tank failed to move in a demo to Putin,

For years Arjun baiters were accusing it of overweight!!! Saying that 40 ton capacity british built bridges in india cant support 60 ton 4 men crew Arjun!!!!Now Armata too weighs around 60 tons even with 4 men crew!!!

Most of the man portable ATGMs failed to hit their target in any distance beyond 2.5 Kms in recent trials in hot indian desert conditions,(target given to nag by IA is in excess of 4 Kms!!!)

can we advocate closure of all these projects.

Also most of the russian supplied T-90s simply pack up their electronics in desert heats and even russians couldn't fix the AC. During operation Parakram IA desperately sounded out Vajpayee govt that these T-90s are not worthy in desert conditions as they are capable of killing their own crew and electronics in desert summer conditions!!!

Till then no one knew about that. Guess what IA has asked the same wretched DRDO to put a suitable AC on T-90 to fight !!!!

In a scam to paint to T-90 cheap , the then MOD purchased T-90 with no tech for Gun and armor!!! Guess what ? The arjun armor and gun tech were used in T-90 to cover up this scam!!!!

Can we send back all those T-90s and ask our payment back from the russians?

less said about Ghorshkov deal the better!!!!

A brand new C-17 crashed and we dont know why?

gripens prototypes repeatedly crashed for fly by wire errors and they have to ask US to develop fly by wire tech for them!!! The wretched ADA has at least given fly by wire tech to the country with 3000 safe flights of tejas.

F-22s last heard are killing their own pilots from suffocation. USAF pilots were mulling industrial strike on that issue and moved court!!! It still does not have a HMDS enabled WVR missile , even tejas mk1 does.It turned out to be prohibitively costly that US itself stopped their protection with just 200 numbers.

A hundred odd Mig-23s were grounded by IAF after a group captain was killed in accident , with IAF saying that these mig-23s have irreparable engine design faults!!!!

See, defence projects are as complicated as it gets even when given full backing the respective armed forces and funding by their governements with full international co operation in a sanction free world!!!

 

[ersakthivel]

40 is not a small number. Let me just say that even orders for 10 nos. have not been discussed with these guys.

Have they ordered 40 GE-404 INS 6 engines?
I have heard that composite panel orders for TAML were given for 20 tejas.Is that right?
DM is saying that tejas in serial production, Is he right or wrong?

 

[ersakthivel]

So if I understand your point :

No Rafale.
No Grippen.
Tejas not going into serially mass production anytime soon.
AMCA also not in the horizon anytime soon.
Sukhoi beset with issues.
Reasonable to assume : FGFA/PAK-FA also doubtful for the future.

I think the only thing that fits is Grippen + Tejas to replace Mig 21+27. Not only is Grippen cheaper than Rafale but they have Adani onboard too.

So the rumour mill is perhaps right.

No gripen is ever going to come in IAF.

 

[Singh]

No gripen is ever going to come in IAF.

Parrikar said this sometime back "

"Rafale is not a replacement for MiG-21. LCA Tejas is a replacement for MiG-21. Or, if we build some other fighter under 'Make in India', that is also possible. If we build another single engine [fighter] in India, which is possible, that could be a replacement for the MiG-21", said Parrikar."

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...o-replace-mig-21-parrikar-115041500007_1.html

Rumour mill : Adani met with Saab apparently, and the plant will be setup in Maharashtra with Fadnavis having a benami share in the company.

 

[SajeevJino]

.

I don't know peoples will fight the IAF to induct Tejas.. I'm aksing are they think IAF is like Nigerian or CHAD air force, they have to fight in the modern airspace which is guarded by array of Anti Air missile batteries.

As some stated are they think Air combat in future will take Hours.. Typically Air actions finished within Minutes, only the Photo Recon ELINT missions takes more time in the Air, even with safe Air spaces.

So here only couple of option, maybe I sure we can expect follow on Rafales or nothing , No LCA, no MK2 no blah blah

 

[ersakthivel]

Parrikar said this sometime back "

"Rafale is not a replacement for MiG-21. LCA Tejas is a replacement for MiG-21. Or, if we build some other fighter under 'Make in India', that is also possible. If we build another single engine [fighter] in India, which is possible, that could be a replacement for the MiG-21", said Parrikar."

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...o-replace-mig-21-parrikar-115041500007_1.html

Rumour mill : Adani met with Saab apparently, and the plant will be setup in Maharashtra with Fadnavis having a benami share in the company.

With present IAF chief Aroop raha himself saying that there is no doubt in IAF over tejas's fighting capability, I dont know how this govt can justify gripen which is thrice costlier than tejas with no significant performance point improvement to justify the costs.

Adani couldn't even secure the recent SBI loan for his Australian coal mines!!!!

So dont know how credible is this new rumour!!!!

Last statement by DM explicitly indicates that money saved from rafale buy will be invested in tejas. he did not mention any other platform.

With Design work on AMCA going on , engine thrust vectoring concept for AMCA engine JV with Kilmov in the works, I dont know where Adani-SAAB JV can bring AMCA.

ADA has built the fly by wire tech for RSS fighters which is so crucial to AMCA , which took up the first 500 flights flown over five year period from 2001.

Incidentally the database of control laws from those 500 flights will serve as a common database for future RSS fly by wire efforts like AMCA.

SAAB incidentaly has failed in fly by wire tech for gripen , as a result US company was asked to develop fly by wire tech for SAAB.

SO how SAAB is going to perfect fly by wire tech with Adani's help is even more of a puzzle!!!
Is ADA going to turn over that expertise to SAAB-Adani venture for the new AMCA? fascinating!!!!

Most people don't know that SAAB owns only the air frame tech of gripen, All critical items like ASEA radars, actuators, engine , fly by wire tech even the most basic bombs and all its missiles are from US and Europe. So how are they going to develop them for AMCA?

So ADA and HAL going to turn over the hard earned composites, fly by wire and the proposed 3D thrust vectoring tech to AMCA and gift Astra missiles , all of them developed at the expense of indian tax payer's money to the new Adani-SAAB AMCA,!!!!

And still expect the opposition to keep quiet in parliament silently endorsing this sell out!!!!

Even people churning out rumours should have some credible points to base that,seems to be forgotten!!!!

 

[Singh]

With present IAF chief Aroop raha himself saying that there is no doubt in IAF over tejas's fighting capability, I dont know how this govt can justify gripen which is thrice costlier than tejas with no significant performance point improvement to justify the costs.

Adani couldn't even secure the recent SBI loan for his Australian coal mines!!!!

So dont know how credible is this new rumour!!!!

Last statement by DM explicitly indicates that money saved from rafale buy will be invested in tejas. he did not mention any other platform.

With Design work on AMCA going on , engine thrust vectoring concept for AMCA engine JV with Kilmov in the works, I dont know where Adani-SAAB JV can bring AMCA.

ADA has built the fly by wire tech for RSS fighters which is so crucial to AMCA .SAAB incidentaly has failed in fly by wire tech for gripen , as a result US company was asked to fly by tech for SAAB. SO how SAAB is going to perfect fly by wire tech with Adani's help is even more of a puzzle!!!

Tejas is a great replacement for Mig21 no doubt.

But @sob saar as per his sources is saying that HAL has been communicated this info.

I have strong suspicions that another single engine fighter might be inducted alongside Tejas and it'll probably be Grippen.

 

[ersakthivel]

.

I don't know peoples will fight the IAF to induct Tejas.. I'm aksing are they think IAF is like Nigerian or CHAD air force, they have to fight in the modern airspace which is guarded by array of Anti Air missile batteries.

As some stated are they think Air combat in future will take Hours.. Typically Air actions finished within Minutes, only the Photo Recon ELINT missions takes more time in the Air, even with safe Air spaces.

So here only couple of option, maybe I sure we can expect follow on Rafales or nothing , No LCA, no MK2 no blah blah

Please state what gs can be pulled by air to air missiles at what speeds

and

what gs can be pulled by fighters at what speeds before discussing chad or nigerian airforce!!!!

What is the concept of no escape zone is something else all together!!!

And what is the extra capability of rafale to escape that missile ? Dont say spectra. Against powerful AWACS and ground radar Spectra is ant piss,

is the Air to Air missile tech currently rests at the performance gap between rafale and tejas is another interesting question to ask!!!!

How could you determine all other fighters in IAF have crossed this missile gap and only tejas blah blah can not?

Last time I asked you why rafale needed a total six fuel load to cross 10000 Km hot indian ocean flight to re union islands , with just two air to ground strategic munition along with three external fuel tanks.

You are yet to answer that!!!!

 

[ersakthivel]

Tejas is a great replacement for Mig21 no doubt.

But @sob saar as per his sources is saying that HAL has been communicated this info.

I have strong suspicions that another single engine fighter might be inducted alongside Tejas and it'll probably be Grippen.

Other than Mig-21 , 23,27 nothing else in IAF needs replacement as far as I know.

IAF even wants the jag to continue for some time!!!


If ADANI can pull so much off, why couldn't they secure a simple billion dollar loan(mere loan against security l!!!) from SBI for their Australian coal mine which had the support of both the Aus and Indian govt?

 

[Khagesh]

With present IAF chief Aroop raha himself saying that there is no doubt in IAF over tejas's fighting capability, I dont know how this govt can justify gripen which is thrice costlier than tejas with no significant performance point improvement to justify the costs.

Adani couldn't even secure the recent SBI loan for his Australian coal mines!!!!

So dont know how credible is this new rumour!!!!

Last statement by DM explicitly indicates that money saved from rafale buy will be invested in tejas. he did not mention any other platform.

With Design work on AMCA going on , engine thrust vectoring concept for AMCA engine JV with Kilmov in the works, I dont know where Adani-SAAB JV can bring AMCA.

ADA has built the fly by wire tech for RSS fighters which is so crucial to AMCA , which took up the first 500 flights flown over five year period from 2001.

Incidentally the database of control laws from those 500 flights will serve as a common database for future RSS fly by wire efforts like AMCA.

SAAB incidentaly has failed in fly by wire tech for gripen , as a result US company was asked to develop fly by wire tech for SAAB.

Also tell them that control laws had to be redone after they were confiscated in US. Fully done work down the drain. Thankfully the brain power was not confiscated and they re-did it.

Also seems like you believe SAAB JV will do designing. Perish the thought. No Sanghi worth the salt will depend on a foreigner. SAAB JV at the most will be to make per designs. And if the JV partner does not play the politics right then the JV willl do job work for HAL.

But listening to Amit Shah in the Aaj Tak do, it seems these guys are not particularly averse to PSUs either. If HAL can then they will support HAL. But if HAL cannot and instead they send their prize advisor to another chatterbox meeting outside India then HAL perhaps may get into trouble with the politicos. In any case yiou have to realize that HAL is deeply into the development phases of ADA projects. There is no real hope for SAAB JV unless they are willing to be numbers players, producing say 2 times more than HAL. For that kind of venture an Adani would be very well suited. You always need somebody who can play the politcos well for this kind of project.

Gripen whatever ain't gonna come. And for multiple reasons. For IAF it will be impossible to support it having rejected it once. The political opposition will cry foul and they will get the support of all jingos (my guess around 4000 on internet, enough to make and break stories). That is a nightmare for politicos.

 

[Singh]

Other than Mig-21 , 23,27 nothing else in IAF needs replacement as far as I know.

IAF even wants the jag to continue for some time!!!

IAF wants Jag, M2k, Mig29 to continue due to the dwindling numbers.

From what I see, IAF is leaning towards this :

L-MRCA - M2K, Tejas, Grippen?
M-MRCA - Mig 29, Rafale Future : AMCA
H-MRCA - Su30MKI Future : FGFA/Su-35MKI
CAS?/DPSA - Jaguar

No point wasting expensive airframes for the kind of job cheaper aircrafts can perform.

If ADANI can pull so much off, why couldn't they secure a simple billion dollar loan(mere loan against security l!!!) from SBI for their Australian coal mine which had the support of both the Aus and Indian govt?

Are you that naive ?? Purely because of adverse PR. No why didn't Adani/Modi advertize his other trips ?

SBI already has a 20,000 crore exposure to Adani. Adani will easily raise money some other way, but right now he is facing trouble from oz, opposition, green groups and Virgin's Branson in oz and low prices. So he is not in a tearing hurry for the loan.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...l-secure-loan-likely/articleshow/47368137.cms

 

[SajeevJino]

Please state what gs can be pulled by air to air missiles at what speeds

and

what gs can be pulled by fighters at what speeds before discussing chad or nigerian airforce!!!!

Should I make another big post sates 40g, 24 g and 9g

What is the concept of no escape zone is something else all together!!!

Exactly.. I'm talking about the No escaping zone, that's why the Half min Battle

And what is the extra capability of rafale to escape that missile ? Dont say spectra. Against powerful AWACS and ground radar Spectra is ant piss,

Believe in the ECM and Spectra, if the Missile smart enough Missile wins

is the Air to Air missile tech currently rests at the performance gap between rafale and tejas is another interesting question to ask!!!!

let me say the survivability rate Rafale 40 % and Tejas 5%

How could you determine all other fighters in IAF have crossed this missile gap and only tejas blah blah can not?

lol , everything ..

Last time I asked you why rafale needed a total six fuel load to cross 10000 Km hot indian ocean flight to re union islands , with just two air to ground strategic munition along with three external fuel tanks.

You are yet to answer that!!!!

You think Rafale's ferry Range less than 1000 km, if you calculate the distance ..!!

you sure The Rafale's fly path similar to Ballistic or Straight trajectory,

I think Flights follow pre planned Around ways to reach their destination

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its already on ..

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

Tejas not going into serially mass production anytime soon.

 

[Singh]

Its already on ..

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

I am just getting an IMG] tag...

Also tagging @sob @sayareakd ..................................

 

[Khagesh]

Only Armata is unafraid of Putin.

Bhadra bhai you are ignoring how the development business takes place. You start small and build up knowledge, then when you are world class in something you replace everybody in that one niche area, in the home market. Rinse repeat for many different projects and items. Eventually you get to be a power-house. Along the way there are going to be many failures. DARE electronics had to be made in the early phase of the EW/Avionics development cycle. Today DARE products are everywhere. At times their products are project agnostic. The HUD of LCA is being used in other aircrafts. You don't sign some obsure 4 letter treaty with US, you will be denied some critical for-allies-only item and the datalink-2 is born.

On the Indian Navy front, sir ji you should not even try. All 3 branches of armed forces established some or the other labs. Only Indian Navy continued uninterrupted its control and cooperation with the Naval research Board scientists. Many years back there was a report where a Scientist (later some bigshot) had said that at NPOL he could not even figure out the difference between a Navy officer and a scientist. IN takes its scientists on to its platforms for real life feel and their ops and engineers and commanders are regularly and in a planned manner introduce and extroduce the design and development.

In your audit extract the longest period is of 9 years 6 months. Most likely it is the ATAS Nagan. But what you leave unsaid, or perhaps don't know is that the follow on of Nagan was immediately sanctioned by IN, the moment it realised that while Nagan has been delayed, still the import options are not really going to add much either. Then based on the Nagan experience, the follow on ALTAS was prepared in record time and was delivered for testing much before the scheduled date. IN was able to leverage its ability to cooperate with the research and development team to identify, at a very fast pace, the fact that foreign supplies are not going to help it and ended up with a great piece of equipment for testing. And the story does not end there because the current 5 year plan they already are planning for going into new directions. Ultra low frequencies is an identified priority area for research.

IN is the kind of organization which gave money out of its own pocket to develop a naval variant of Tejas when Tejas was not even designed from that perspective. It is a shame that NLCA will happen only after LCA Mk-1. Even more of a shame is the fact that AMCA is also being made with IAF in mind. Should have been the reverse.ct

You were asked by a member to provide a comparative with other countries. You failed to do that even for one item on your list. The whole list is obviously too much. I ask you to do a simpler thing. Just total up the losses on account of delays and divide that with the value of the products being currently made based on DRDO tech. Simple & easy. And should you wish to bring in non-monetizables like missed opportunity costs for the numerator then don't forget to add all future sales of military hardware and software in the denominator.

Because one day or the other all of it is gonna get Made In India. No self-respecting Indian will seek protection under imported items. And self respect is still strong amongst Indians.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You are filling thread with very outdated data for your claims & leaving out the source links so no one can see the dates ..

MK3 Carl Gustaf is in mass in Army, Their are few MK2 so does the ammunition, 120mm mortar produced by OFB is better than many 120mm mortars in used by foreign countries including US ..

A lot of technological innovation has taken place in this system specially in its ammunition but remains the same old system in IA.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I can see the screen shot which was taken from MOD Annual report ..

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

 

[Singh]

I can see the screen shot which was taken from MOD Annual report ..

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

Will try from a different browser, some firewall issue at my end it seems.

As per @sob saar HAL guys haven't been communicated that they are the anointed ones. I will let @sob saar judge how much more info to reveal publicly or not.

 

[Khagesh]

Indian Navy imported some big ticket aircrafts and nobody complained.

IAF imported some big ticket aircrafts and everybody complains.

There is a difference that the world perceives.

You are complaining about a delayed Varunastra even when the IN is going to introduce it. You say nothing about the AShM that has just begun its design work. Why did the IN make that happen? And don't forget to tell us the answer when you figure out why.

Meantime I will enjoy my lager imagining some outrageous idea like the mating of some AShM with some surface ships or even subs.

 

[Bhadra]

You are filling thread with very outdated data for your claims & leaving out the source links so no one can see the dates ..

MK3 Carl Gustaf is in mass in Army, Their are few MK2 so does the ammunition, 120mm mortar produced by OFB is better than many 120mm mortars in used by foreign countries including US ..

I have given references to each of my posts keeping you in mind....
Even then if you feel I should leave this forum for your pleasure I shall happily do that like I did for last four years.. if the forum has to run for your pleasure
I am not unemployed or hardly employed..

Rebut the posts and facts rather than cry every now and then.. then delete my posts for which I work very hard