ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[saik]

It is important to graduate the puppy Mk1 -> Mk1A -> Mk2 and then on to AMCA.

There are lot of afsars who like Firang maals than home grown ones. Their interests are like double edged sword. It is hard to defy or deny them as the nature of the force is with them, secrecy and strategy must be maintained that which we can't tell out in public.

So, we all should ignore such afsars who are rooting for firang fighters.

Go LCA! make it big! we 1.2 billion will support it, and ensure it becomes the R&D platform like F16s for AMCA.
We also need to get back Arjun Mk2 and Kaveri engine back on the production lines.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

my comedy version to happened between IAF & Mod over rafale & Tejas

let me sum up how the situation played out

IAF : we want 126 rafales

Mod : we dont have teh money at the most we can give you 36 but you have to commit to Tejas

IAF : Ok

MOD & IAF announce : the IAF will get 36 rafales (18 hidden under option clause)

IAF : lets sign the deal

MOD : no first you order the 120 Tejas and commit no more changes no more spanners

IAF (thinks) : as we are getting 36_18(underoptions) lets play a game with MOD

IAF : we want to base 2 sqds of Rafale on 2 different bases

MOD : Fine as long as it does not increase the deal costs we are okay

IAF announces : we are ready to take 120 Tejas whatever Mk x y z it comes in, But we also need six more sqds of Rafale type
(thinks giving a lolipop to MOD DRDO ADA HAL & Public will work )

IAF to MOD: see we are backing Tejas Now atlest increase the order of rafale by 44 i.e. 36 + 44 = 80
(here IAF think it can bargain and get MOD to order 80 then 40 will be ordered under 50% options clause so IAF will get the original MMRCA no 120 (cloase to MMRCA 126) through back door )

MOD to IAF : (laughs and says) saale chutiya samjha hai kya - now that you are backing tejas why not wal the Talk and go the whole Hog ?
no more Rafale - AT THE MOST 36 thats it - rest tejas - get kracking

 

[tejas warrior]

In above communication, visualize MOD as Parrikar.

 

[tejas warrior]

http://idrw.org/a-coordinated-media-attack-on-lca-tejas-program/

Bang On !!

 

[sjmaverick]

What would be the expected weight of such an EW Pod cant it be placed at same place from where dead weight is proposed to be removed ?

 

[Chinmoy]

http://idrw.org/a-coordinated-media-attack-on-lca-tejas-program/

Bang On !!

Well... The day is not far away, when our media would reach the hospital ward the moment a child is born and speculate whether he/she would become a doctor or engineer based on that infant's handwriting.

I would like to ask these people to base there speculations on past, present and future performance outcome rather then things written on sticking pads.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

http://idrw.org/a-coordinated-media-attack-on-lca-tejas-program/

Bang On !!

seeing this i am convinced that what we are doing is right way to go

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

NOw this is some news

a fresh agreement which sets the course for new LCA was SIGNED on Spetember 23 by all stakeholders including IAF, HAL ADA CEMILAC and others

agreement was SIGNED


a done deal

http://idrw.org/iaf-gets-120-home-built-jets-instead-of-the-planned-40/

 

[A chauhan]

NOw this is some news

a fresh agreement which sets the course for new LCA was SIGNED on Spetember 23 by all stakeholders including IAF, HAL ADA CEMILAC and others

agreement was SIGNED


a done deal

http://idrw.org/iaf-gets-120-home-built-jets-instead-of-the-planned-40/

Actually this could have been done earlier, due to delay in induction process and stubbornness to accept LCA MK-1 now the squadron strength has weakened.Taking the time required to produce an LCA under consideration (8 LCAs per year), we can say that producing & inducting120 LCA MK-1A too will take time We should have accepted LCA MK1 and could have upgrade it gradually and thus maintaining a good squadron strength but we opted a delayed way.

At least 43 of these points can be resolved during serialised production by 2018. As per the new agreement, effort is being made to resolve these 43 points before 2018.

With the resolution of these issues and added capacity of AESA radar, advance weapons, electronic warfare suite and refuelling capability, the IAF will not need Tejas Mk II, said a senior officer.

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

NOw this is some news

a fresh agreement which sets the course for new LCA was SIGNED on Spetember 23 by all stakeholders including IAF, HAL ADA CEMILAC and others

agreement was SIGNED


a done deal

http://idrw.org/iaf-gets-120-home-built-jets-instead-of-the-planned-40/

If I understand correctly, this means the thread called LCA Tejas Mark II will be closed/go in hibernation. But the development of mark II may still continue, not as Tejas-II, but rather as Naval version. Naval version was supposed to be named something different anyway.

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

Is it 40 MkI + 120Mk IA or 40Mk I (upgraded later) + 80Mk IA?

 

[Ved]

Just 120 Tejas. No mk1 or mk1A.
just call them Mig 21 replacements.
2020 onwards when the more advanced Tejas with GE414 starts flight testing, these Tejas will be gradually upgraded. Expect around 250 Tejas in IAF.

 

[R.parida]

http://idrw.org/tejas-once-combat-ready-will-be-able-to-outgun-the-pakistan-jf-17-fighters/ just can't imagine how ridiculous this guy is, in the pictures he mentioned Mk2 is scrapped but within article expressed Mk2 possible inducted by 2024-25. He is confused and trying to confuse readers!!!

 

[Chinmoy]

www.niticentral.com/2015/10/13/iaf-induct-lca-335022.html

IAF should induct the LCA

The Modi government has been telling the Indian Air Force that over the long term the IAF has to accept at least 150-200 home-grown LCA aircraft to replace the Mig-21 which are retired. These 150-200 LCA don’t all have to be the same variety i.e. the first few squadrons can be a slightly upgraded LCA Mark-I and then after that the remaining squadrons may be LCA Mark-II. The Modi government is correct to say this because it is the logical choice for many reasons.

The first reason is that the Rafale and the LCA are different aircraft meant to satisfy different requirements. The IAF has said that 36 Rafale are not enough and that at least 6 squadrons of Rafale are needed, and so the IAF is opposing the induction of LCA saying that the LCA is vastly inferior to the Rafale. But this is illogical, because the decision to induct LCA is completely independent of how many Rafale are purchased. Even if the India buys 6 squadrons of Rafale it will still need the 150-200 LCA in order to have sufficient number of total squadrons. So in other words because India needs both the Rafale and the LCA, the decision of the Indian government to buy 36 Rafale now and also buy a few squadrons of LCA is the best choice for the present. In future India can buy more Rafale (or a similar aircraft) as needed.

The second reason is cost. The Rafale purchase of 36 aircraft is supposed to be $8 Billion i.e. each aircraft will cost about $225 Million and that is extremely expensive, even the American F-35 doesn’t cost that much. Meanwhile the cost of a HAL built LCA is less than $40 Million per aircraft. Of course it is not as capable as the Rafale but you can get 6 LCA for the cost of each Rafale. For mission critical operations of course you would use the Rafale. For routine patrol operations deploying more LCA for the purpose may be better and cheaper.

The third reason is the timeline. If the government buys 36 Rafale now, that will take some time to deliver. Similarly if the government orders 40 LCA now that will take time to deliver. After three years if India wants to place orders for more Rafale and more LCA, there may not be any delay in the delivery of the aircraft. In other words even if India orders 126 Rafale right now it will take as much as 6 years to deliver all of them, so you might as well just order 36 now and then place more orders as needed. The follow-on orders need not necessarily be for the Rafale, they could be for the Eurofighter instead, so India is keeping it’s options open without any hit to the delivery timeline. Similarly after the first few squadrons of LCA Mark I the future orders will be for LCA Mark II.

The fourth reason is weapons integration. Right now India has some Indian designed weapon systems such as the beyond-visual-range Astra missile which they want to integrate with the Rafale platform but France said this would increase the unit cost of the Rafale. So in other words even if India designs it’s own weapon systems, it will have to pay extra to integrate them with foreign fighter jets i.e. if India wants to use the Astra on the Eurofighter that also will increase the unit cost of the Eurofighter. So ultimately the only way it can be cheap for India to use Indian designed weapon systems such as the Astra missile is to integrate them with an Indian designed fighter jet such as the LCA. In other words if India wants to develop weapons systems so that you can save money, then you need the LCA in order to use those weapon systems.

This leads us to the fifth and most important reason to accelerate induction of the LCA into the IAF and that reason is “Make in India”. If the government waits until the IAF is satisfied with the LCA before it places an order then that order may never be placed because as long as the IAF is comparing the LCA to the Rafale, then the IAF will always say the LCA is not good enough. On the other hand if the government simply places an order for some 60 LCA right now, that will give life to the LCA project and encourage the quick development of the LCA Mark II. Once the first two squadrons of LCA are built and flown by IAF pilots, all the problems will be identified quickly and solutions can be found. Then the remaining squadrons will steadily improve until the LCA is a much better aircraft.

If you want to predict the future, you can bet on it that India will not stop with ordering just 36 Rafale. India will definitely buy another hundred of either the Rafale or the Eurofighter or a similar aircraft within the next five years. But when it comes to the LCA program, India is clearly at a cross-roads. Either India commits to the LCA now and places an order for at least three squadrons of an upgraded LCA Mark I right away, or the LCA program will surely die. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar stated that the government is committed to buying several squadron of the LCA and that is a good choice because the future of Indian defense manufacturing is at stake. India does not have the money to buy large numbers of foreign fighter jets, so the choice to throw the full weight of the government behind the LCA program is not only good for the LCA program, it is also the first step toward complete self-dependence for India as a nation.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Just 120 Tejas. No mk1 or mk1A.
just call them Mig 21 replacements.
2020 onwards when the more advanced Tejas with GE414 starts flight testing, these Tejas will be gradually upgraded. Expect around 250 Tejas in IAF.

as per sources ( not like the newspapers / journos)

HAL is being proded to become the lead integrator and not the wholesale mfg for LCA programme ( lca programme = LCA mk1 + LCA mk 1A/P + LCA Mk2 + NLCA )

and is being aksed to prepare plans for a production capacity of 36 / year

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

www.niticentral.com/2015/10/13/iaf-induct-lca-335022.html

IAF should induct the LCA

The Modi government has been telling the Indian Air Force that over the long term the IAF has to accept at least 150-200 home-grown LCA aircraft to replace the Mig-21 which are retired. These 150-200 LCA don’t all have to be the same variety i.e. the first few squadrons can be a slightly upgraded LCA Mark-I and then after that the remaining squadrons may be LCA Mark-II. The Modi government is correct to say this because it is the logical choice for many reasons.

The first reason is that the Rafale and the LCA are different aircraft meant to satisfy different requirements. The IAF has said that 36 Rafale are not enough and that at least 6 squadrons of Rafale are needed, and so the IAF is opposing the induction of LCA saying that the LCA is vastly inferior to the Rafale. But this is illogical, because the decision to induct LCA is completely independent of how many Rafale are purchased. Even if the India buys 6 squadrons of Rafale it will still need the 150-200 LCA in order to have sufficient number of total squadrons. So in other words because India needs both the Rafale and the LCA, the decision of the Indian government to buy 36 Rafale now and also buy a few squadrons of LCA is the best choice for the present. In future India can buy more Rafale (or a similar aircraft) as needed.

The second reason is cost. The Rafale purchase of 36 aircraft is supposed to be $8 Billion i.e. each aircraft will cost about $225 Million and that is extremely expensive, even the American F-35 doesn’t cost that much. Meanwhile the cost of a HAL built LCA is less than $40 Million per aircraft. Of course it is not as capable as the Rafale but you can get 6 LCA for the cost of each Rafale. For mission critical operations of course you would use the Rafale. For routine patrol operations deploying more LCA for the purpose may be better and cheaper.

The third reason is the timeline. If the government buys 36 Rafale now, that will take some time to deliver. Similarly if the government orders 40 LCA now that will take time to deliver. After three years if India wants to place orders for more Rafale and more LCA, there may not be any delay in the delivery of the aircraft. In other words even if India orders 126 Rafale right now it will take as much as 6 years to deliver all of them, so you might as well just order 36 now and then place more orders as needed. The follow-on orders need not necessarily be for the Rafale, they could be for the Eurofighter instead, so India is keeping it’s options open without any hit to the delivery timeline. Similarly after the first few squadrons of LCA Mark I the future orders will be for LCA Mark II.

The fourth reason is weapons integration. Right now India has some Indian designed weapon systems such as the beyond-visual-range Astra missile which they want to integrate with the Rafale platform but France said this would increase the unit cost of the Rafale. So in other words even if India designs it’s own weapon systems, it will have to pay extra to integrate them with foreign fighter jets i.e. if India wants to use the Astra on the Eurofighter that also will increase the unit cost of the Eurofighter. So ultimately the only way it can be cheap for India to use Indian designed weapon systems such as the Astra missile is to integrate them with an Indian designed fighter jet such as the LCA. In other words if India wants to develop weapons systems so that you can save money, then you need the LCA in order to use those weapon systems.

This leads us to the fifth and most important reason to accelerate induction of the LCA into the IAF and that reason is “Make in India”. If the government waits until the IAF is satisfied with the LCA before it places an order then that order may never be placed because as long as the IAF is comparing the LCA to the Rafale, then the IAF will always say the LCA is not good enough. On the other hand if the government simply places an order for some 60 LCA right now, that will give life to the LCA project and encourage the quick development of the LCA Mark II. Once the first two squadrons of LCA are built and flown by IAF pilots, all the problems will be identified quickly and solutions can be found. Then the remaining squadrons will steadily improve until the LCA is a much better aircraft.

If you want to predict the future, you can bet on it that India will not stop with ordering just 36 Rafale. India will definitely buy another hundred of either the Rafale or the Eurofighter or a similar aircraft within the next five years. But when it comes to the LCA program, India is clearly at a cross-roads. Either India commits to the LCA now and places an order for at least three squadrons of an upgraded LCA Mark I right away, or the LCA program will surely die. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar stated that the government is committed to buying several squadron of the LCA and that is a good choice because the future of Indian defense manufacturing is at stake. India does not have the money to buy large numbers of foreign fighter jets, so the choice to throw the full weight of the government behind the LCA program is not only good for the LCA program, it is also the first step toward complete self-dependence for India as a nation.

this matters as this niticentral is a RW publications considered to be an media interface of Modi

 

[tejas warrior]

as per sources ( not like the newspapers / journos)

HAL is being proded to become the lead integrator and not the wholesale mfg for LCA programme ( lca programme = LCA mk1 + LCA mk 1A/P + LCA Mk2 + NLCA )

and is being aksed to prepare plans for a production capacity of 36 / year

Source ?

Wish this is true but 36/year is way too high unless IAF comes with follow on order after 120 ?

 

[pmaitra]

The development of a Tejas Mark-II, with a more powerful engine, in turn, would be possible only by 2024-2025 at the earliest, with the production to follow thereafter. Consequently, the proposed Tejas Mark-II for the IAF now stands scrapped, though it will continue for the Navy, as was earlier reported by TOI.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...istan-JF-17-fighters/articleshow/49330846.cms

 

[aero_sp]

NOw this is some news

a fresh agreement which sets the course for new LCA was SIGNED on Spetember 23 by all stakeholders including IAF, HAL ADA CEMILAC and others

agreement was SIGNED


a done deal

http://idrw.org/iaf-gets-120-home-built-jets-instead-of-the-planned-40/

I think defence rwporting in india is very poor. I am observing that 57 dificiancies are beings mentioned repeatedly which is not true.
57 dificiancies were said to me mentioned in the CAG report which is based on 2013 status of the aircraft.
I think media need to behaive more respondibaly. There were only 7 to 8 improvements which were sought in to the MK-II. BVR missile and mid air refulling were already part of the FOC process.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Tapatalk

 

[A chauhan]

I think defence rwporting in india is very poor. I am observing that 57 dificiancies are beings mentioned repeatedly which is not true.
57 dificiancies were said to me mentioned in the CAG report which is based on 2013 status of the aircraft.
I think media need to behaive more respondibaly. There were only 7 to 8 improvements which were sought in to the MK-II. BVR missile and mid air refulling were already part of the FOC process.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Tapatalk

If you see some media channels' report on fighter aircraft you'll commit suicide for e.g. yesterday NewsNation was reporting that JF-17 is a 5th generation fighter aircraft. Though I am happy with NewsNation that it at least create reports on defence matters.