Why India does not have CAS crafts?

[mikhail]

Well we did lost Mi-17 in one of the raids...
Pray for brave who gave their lives defending our frontier.

After reading almost all post, i do agree that we need to have dedicated CAS under indian Army.
and i believe good steps are being taken in this regards.

HAL LCH is great option and good to know that army has ordered 114 of these and 60 HAL rudra which can be used in roles for troops supports while transport.
but what i feel is that for the planes of rajasthan, Mi 35 in hands of IA can give our attacking troops major boast.

Airforce can keep transport helicopters (medium/heavy) but must transfer lighter helicopters baring few to army.
We will need to have a fixed wing aircraft for CAS role, either we develop new or replace it with LCA. but army don't need to have fixed wing CAS.
i would love to see most indian helicopters with door guns, they are good option, don't know if Dhruv or new MI-17 can have door or ramp guns?

i think we can easily mount door guns/galing guns on Dhruv as it is a multi mission helicopter if the IAAW really wants that.personally i think that a mini-gun is a much better option for the dhruv as it will give the IAAW the much needed fire power in case of a rescue operation in battle field.the U.S. also did the same to the UH-1 helis in Vietnam by mounting mini guns on them which proved to be an excellent decision and it also saved the lives of many G.I.s in Vietnam.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Very much needed, But as per our budget we have to consider cheaper options..

army don't need to have fixed wing CAS.

 

[t_co]

Moving Target: Raytheon’s GBU-53 Small Diameter Bomb II

These are the weapons that will make CAS craft obsolete. Precision fire support against moving ground vehicles and window/door-sized targets from over 80km away, deliverable by any air platform.

Load 80-100 of these bombs in a long-endurance, high-performance bomber (think Tu-160 or B-1B class) protected by a belt of 5th-gen fighters and you could enjoy on-call precision fire support from standoff distances against a division-sized enemy formation, even if that formation is scattered across hundreds of sq km.

Such an aerial strikeforce would be an invincible ball of death versus any enemy ground force. Give that deathball JSTARS aircraft to see 300km into the enemy formation, and it would be like having a delete button floating above every single vehicle.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

'War of attrition.. '

You must have cheaper ways to conduct simple operations..

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Of course hi-tech shock and awe ops, are very effective in blitzkrieg style warfare..

But wise should understand when to change tactics..

 

[t_co]

'War of attrition.. '

You must have cheaper ways to conduct simple operations..

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Of course hi-tech shock and awe ops, are very effective in blitzkrieg style warfare..

But wise should understand when to change tactics..

True - just curious then, what sort of ops does the IA want to prepare for? Is the view within the procurement staff tilting more towards the "big war" with Pakistan or China, or towards more low-intensity/COIN/humanitarian operations?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

All of them..

True - just curious then, what sort of ops does the IA want to prepare for? Is the view within the procurement staff tilting more towards the "big war" with Pakistan or China, or towards more low-intensity/COIN/humanitarian operations?

 

[W.G.Ewald]

The image of brave troops being able to call down lethal air support 'just in the nick of time' is a myth...

 

[W.G.Ewald]

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Hollywood version:

 

[DivineHeretic]

About CAS in general, some interesting observations and facts. (Operation Anaconda)

One problem arose when Special Forces operators, fearing fratricide, established umbrella no-fire zones around themselves and their allied Afghan fighters. These zones did not move with the forces, and were left behind to clutter the pilots' maps. "It's very hard for a pilot to know what he can and can't do when there are literally thousands of these no-fire areas," Longoria recalled. "We didn't fix it fast enough for Operation Anaconda."

A large challenge of close air support is an organizational one. The battle for the Shahikot Valley provided a hard lesson in this area, as forward air controllers proliferated on a fairly tight battlefield.
He said every 12-man Special Forces A team had an air force controller, as did SEAL teams, members of the 10th Mountain Division and "other government agencies"—popular vernacular for CIA operators. All told, Longoria said there were 37 controllers in the area, the highest density of FACs in a military operation.

"I've heard the critique that there was not enough close air support at Anaconda. That's a crock," he said. "It wasn't that we didn't have enough; we had too much "¦ When one mortar round fell, you'd have 17 people on the net. The first thing we'd have to do is tell 16 of them to shut up.

-It was up to an Air Force major in the 10th Mountain Division's tactical operation center, literally standing on a tabletop and shouting to five different service representatives in the room, to ensure that each air strike wasn't headed towards friendly forces.

There was another near miss, Longoria revealed. A 2,000-pound Joint Direct Attack Munition dropped close to the position of 70 American soldiers, but did not explode
"Anaconda would have been a terrible tragedy for the U.S. if that 2,000 pound bomb worked," he said. "It would have been one of the top 10 disasters for the U.S. military."

The future of close air support will be shaped by on the hard lessons learned in Afghanistan. Connecting the troops on the ground with the same picture is of the utmost importance. Longoria cited programs that patch pilots with ground controllers via PDAs, giving them the ability to share photos, images and even electric pen markings (similar in style to those used by football commentators) in near real time.

I wonder what is the status of CAS calling training and tactics in the IA/IAF.

 

[TrueSpirit]

A 2,000-pound Joint Direct Attack Munition dropped close to the position of 70 American soldiers, but did not explode[/B]
"Anaconda would have been a terrible tragedy for the U.S. if that 2,000 pound bomb worked," he said. "It would have been one of the top 10 disasters for the U.S. military."

What happened to that JDAM ? I mean, is it still lying there ? Was it a dumb bomb with a conversion kit or sensor-fused one ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Malfunction, one should not always relay heavy on technology..

This happened before..

What happened to that JDAM ? I mean, is it still lying there ? Was it a dumb bomb with a conversion kit or sensor-fused one ?

 

[arnabmit]

HAL pushes HTT-40 as light attack platform | idrw.org

While the Defence Ministry ponders over the IAF's recommendation that the HTT-40 basic trainer project be foreclosed, HAL is fighting back. At a recent annual general meeting of the Aeronautical Society of India, which includes influential voices from the veteran communities of the IAF and aerospace industry, HAL sought to project the HTT-40 trainer effort as a possible light attack platform.

Deputy Project Manager Prashant Bhadoria informed the audience, "The trainers of today cannot only be deployed for basic training to ab initio pilots but have also undergone systems and weapons upgradation to include functionality of fourth generation fighter aircraft. This enables them to double up as light attack and reconnaissance aircraft. A significant amount of systems training to be provided at the intermediate and advanced phase of training can be covered by the basic trainer itself, leading to enormous reduction of cost and platform fatigue." HAL, incidentally, is also seeking to weaponise the intermediate jet trainer HJT-36 Sitara with gun-pods. The company recently said in a statement, "The matter is before the competent authorities and there are no comments to offer on this subject in particular. HAL continues to whole heartedly support the progress of Indian Air Force and highly values its relationship with IAF."

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@Kunal Biswas would HTT-40 ever be able to give comparable performance to the likes of EMB 314 Super Tucano?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It depends what type of electronics they put inside like Radar warning receivers, EW suit etc, And what kind of weapon loads it can carry..

Super Tucano is well known for rugged CAS turboprop, Lets see how things goes ..

Overall this is a very good step by HAL ..

@Kunal Biswas would HTT-40 ever be able to give comparable performance to the likes of EMB 314 Super Tucano?