Why China failed in creating own brands

[Compersion]

many of them
there are many Chinese private companies which have done IPO in the USA

Name some please

Primary listing in the USA of a PRC company, (you can say alibaba)

 

[Compersion]

do you want to make ppl laugh? huge amount of CEOs/Bosses are without CCP membership, here just name few internet giants

Baidu.com Robin Li
Tencent Huateng Ma
Qihoo 360 Hongyi Zhou

the profits go to the individual bosses' pocket, why do you think the CCP have the ultimate beneficiary?



world.time.com/2013/09/05/in-china-economic-woes-stoke-tensions-between-business-leaders-and-venal-officials/

BTW, why should the CCP not let CEO's offsprings to inherit the company to raise anger from the public? it is totally bullshit


you still havn't answered me the question "so accroding to your knowledge, a person with a Phd degree is not allowed to be a CEO or build a private company? YES or NO?",
besides, why should Phd have advantages over other ppl without Phd when it comes to being selected as a CEO?.

R u serious by saying baidu , tencent , qihoo have no communist party control and it is absolutely private individuals control and they can do whatever they want because they get money in their pockets, - be serious.

One can say the opportunity the communist party is giving these individuals to have money in their pockets is reason enough for them not to disobey the communist party. Communist party is pro business no doubt and probably a better asset manager and investment banker compared to many world renowned institutions.

Again I repeat there is nothing wrong it's a approach. The economy and brand generation of PRC are through the hard workings of the communist party. Sure alibaba is a new approach but unlikely happen in such a way ever again.

The communist party does not like offsprings of business people to inherit because it develops a alternative way to develop control. That control needs to be centralised and managed by communist party. Sure enough there are family members that do well and become rich but that is with the communist party approval.

But if you go to Hong Kong and macaus and Taiwan it is different ... The communist party will give respect to business families. Perhaps the communist party is the "business family" in PRC.

According to me if a candidate in PRC has qualifications like a PhD and someone else is selected by communist party the question is why.

I believe you are getting there, use the words over-qualified and better-qualified also.

I am not saying all CEOs and board members and senior managers are not qualified. Communist party is not stupid.

 

[kenduffy]

Name some please

Primary listing in the USA of a PRC company, (you can say alibaba)

too many companies with IPO in usa

jd.com

qihoo 360

perfect world

 

[Compersion]

world.time.com/2013/09/05/in-china-economic-woes-stoke-tensions-between-business-leaders-and-venal-officials/

Have you read the article you posted. It's says exactly what I have said, please post the article in full and explain each paragraph in your own words. It's a hard hitting piece,

 

[kenduffy]

R u serious by saying baidu , tencent , qihoo have no communist party control and it is absolutely private individuals control and they can do whatever they want because they get money in their pockets, - be serious.

One can say the opportunity the communist party is giving these individuals to have money in their pockets is reason enough for them not to disobey the communist party. Communist party is pro business no doubt and probably a better asset manager and investment banker compared to many world renowned institutions.

Again I repeat there is nothing wrong it's a approach. The economy and brand generation of PRC are through the hard workings of the communist party. Sure alibaba is a new approach but unlikely happen in such a way ever again.

The communist party does not like offsprings of business people to inherit because it develops a alternative way to develop control. That control needs to be centralised and managed by communist party. Sure enough there are family members that do well and become rich but that is with the communist party approval.

But if you go to Hong Kong and macaus and Taiwan it is different ... The communist party will give respect to business families. Perhaps the communist party is the "business family" in PRC.

According to me if a candidate in PRC has qualifications like a PhD and someone else is selected by communist party the question is why.

I believe you are getting there, use the words over-qualified and better-qualified also.

I am not saying all CEOs and board members and senior managers are not qualified. Communist party is not stupid.

you are just playing word game.

If a Phd starts a company using his money and run it well, the company belongs to that Phd. The CCP can't decide the CEO of that company.
If a company is state-owned company, then of course the government has a say on the CEO. Any Board of directors in any country have their preference for CEO candidates, whether they are Phd or not, is there anything wrong?

Any individual in PRC can start his own business, earn his money, pass his wealth and company to his offsprings. Yes, they should obey the law and rules set by the government, but can companies disobey the laws and rules in the US, singapore, Uk?

Ma Yun and Alibaba also obey the rules, no difference with other Chinese companies, so Alibaba is a Chinese company.

 

[kenduffy]

Have you read the article you posted. It's says exactly what I have said, please post the article in full and explain each paragraph in your own words. It's a hard hitting piece,

whatever she said, she offended the government and she still inherit and manages the company. This is the reality.

 

[Compersion]

too many companies with IPO in usa

jd.com

qihoo 360

perfect world

I don't think that there are too many. It might have been a experiment(s) but the communist party prefer other ways.

The names you listed compare these to the alibaba. That is a foreign owned tech firm that is penetrating into PRC and is private company owned by foreigners including the direction and position of the business model that wants to do a primary list in USA.

I ought to have be more specific please name a PRC company that is foreign owned that has its primary listing overseas.

The firms you are mentioned originate from PRC and one can put a strong assumption that they are directed and controlled by the communist party.

Who are the owners and major shareholders and people with control for the above firms. They won't be able to survive doing business if beneficial ownership is not connected with communist party.

In 2011 and 2012, Qihoo 360 has experienced scrutiny from short sellers on the stock exchange. The main concerns have been quality of accounts and quality of user data provided by Qihoo 360. The short sellers have mainly pointed to the discrepancy in reporting figures market shares between Qihoo 360 and firms such as Baidu. The most prominent critique has come from Citron Research, the stock research firm, and Anonymous Analytics, the hacker network.[5][6] However, Qihoo 360 responded forcefully to both of these critiques by releasing the 20-F full annual report which was audited by Deloitte which is very unusual for American listed Chinese companies and a response to Anonymous Analytics

A conflict of nationality ...

American listed PRC company.

American primary listed PRC company does that mean the brand is not 100% PRC. The communist party knows the risk.

 

[Compersion]

whatever she said, she offended the government and she still inherit and manages the company. This is the reality.

Post the article also read exactly what she says. Also there is more to the article outside her comments only.

She won't survive in PRC if she piss off the communist party,

But there is much much more in the article.

 

[kenduffy]

Post the article also read exactly what she says. Also there is more to the article outside her comments only.

She won't survive in PRC if she piss off the communist party,

But there is much much more in the article.

whatever she said,
you can't deny the truth that she offended the government and she still inherit and manages the company.
This is the reality.

 

[Compersion]

you are just playing word game.

If a Phd starts a company using his money and run it well, the company belongs to that Phd. The CCP can't decide the CEO of that company.
If a company is state-owned company, then of course the government has a say on the CEO. Any Board of directors in any country have their preference for CEO candidates, whether they are Phd or not, is there anything wrong?

Any individual in PRC can start his own business, earn his money, pass his wealth and company to his offsprings. Yes, they should obey the law and rules set by the government, but can companies disobey the laws and rules in the US, singapore, Uk?

Ma Yun and Alibaba also obey the rules, no difference with other Chinese companies, so Alibaba is a Chinese company.

Good thing talking with you is that you are explaining your view point and its a western influence approach. You have to think that what is being done from PRC and communist party approach.

If a phd forms a company in PRC and does really well and he piss off the communist party for example deny them control what do you think will happen.

State owned company you agree with what I say ... Case closed.

If any PRC company want to pass wealth on to tending children and the children do not behave like their parents by giving control to communist party what do you think will happen.

That is different from obeying laws and rules in USA, Singapore, uk. Because one can go to court if unfair rules and laws applied and also sue the government if they try impose control without any justification.

The article you posted has a quote that's worth exploring ...

On Aug. 22, Li Chuntu, founder of Hunan Prince Milk Group, told local media that he was forced to hand over all his company shares to the local government for free. Li had been jailed under suspicion of illegal fundraising in 2010. After spending 15 months in prison, he was released because of insufficient evidence. "When I refused to sign the [shares] agreement, the government arrested my son, my sister and my brother, they intimidated my elderly mother and my uncle was even driven to death," Li told a Beijing-based newspaper. "I have seen so many private entrepreneurs put into prison after they expand and strengthen their business."

 

[Compersion]

whatever she said,
you can't deny the truth that she offended the government and she still inherit and manages the company.
This is the reality.

You mean say that she is the primary owner today. You mean to tell me her father is not the owner right now and given everything to his daughter (who apparently has said some pretty strong words). R u sure.

During a press interview earlier this year, Zong Qinghou, the Chinese beverage tycoon and one of the nation's richest men, stated the obvious: a successful businessman in China needs to understand politics. Five months later, Zong has discovered that his own daughter may not be up to the task. In late August, Kelly Zong, who serves as president of the Hangzhou Wahaha Group, the largest beverage company in mainland China, complained about the effort expended to maintain relations with the government and ensure the success of China's biggest beverage maker. "I think the government needs to face our generation," she was quoted as saying in the Communist Party's mouthpiece, the People's Daily.

Also you think such a quote will tolerate by communist party:

When asked whether she might even move the business overseas, the Wahaha heiress replied: "It is really possible "¦ Why can't I do such a thing in the future?"

This would be taught in the communist party class room to be a lesson and justification why not to give control to family members in business. I won't be surprised if the above company hires a new president (on direction of communist party).

Unless she has explained her communist party credentials.

Her father is where he is because of the communist party. It clearly said that,

He is married to Shi Youzhen (施幼珍), with whom he has one daughter Kelly Zong (宗馥莉). Shi is the Purchasing Manager at Wahaha.[6] Zong formerly held permanent resident status in the United States, which he obtained in order to make it easier for him to travel to the country and look after his investments there.[11] His daughter attended Pepperdine University in Southern California and naturalized as a U.S. citizen, but later moved back to China and in 2007 began the procedure to renounce her U.S. citizenship.[12][13] Zong gained wide support as he played the role of "David" against a French "Goliath" gobbling up Chinese companies. However, with the revelation of his green card in 2008, public perceptions changed and his reputation sufered.[14] In 2013, he stated that because he did not re-enter the U.S. for several years, his status was thus deemed abandoned.[11]

Tax evasion allegations
Zong claimed to have been paid a salary of 3,000 EUR and 100,000 EUR annual allowances plus a bonus worth 1% of the annual profit of the joint ventures, totalling 70 million yuan of income every year.[15]

Caijing reported in April 2008 that Zong was being investigated for allegedly evading taxes amounting to some ¥ 300 million. An investigator had alleged that Zong "...earned far more than this and hasn't fully reported the tax for years". Caijing implied there may have been less than transparent payments through web of Hong Kong-registered accounts of Zong, Shi, daughter Fuli; and the former Party secretary of Wahaha, Du Jianying. Zong had apparently paid more than 200 million yuan in back taxes in October 2007, after the investigation kicked off. However, the magazine suspected Zong still owed millions more.[15]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zong_Qinghou

There is enough there to show not to cross the communist party and they control business environment in PRC.

 

[kenduffy]

I don't think that there are too many. It might have been a experiment(s) but the communist party prefer other ways.

nearly every Internet company in China has its goal set to do IPO in the USA, and there are thousands of Internet companies in China.
There are tens of or maybe over 100 Internet companies which have done IPO in the US.

The names you listed compare these to the alibaba. That is a foreign owned tech firm that is penetrating into PRC and is private company owned by foreigners including the direction and position of the business model that wants to do a primary list in USA.

Alibaba was started by Ma Yun in 1999, and he is a Chinese national. After founding Alibaba, he notice he need risk investment and thus he resort to softbank and other foreign investment. The direction, business model are all controlled by Ma Yun. There are thousands of Chinese companies are like this, they get investment from foreign risk investment. Alibaba is not special.

 

[Compersion]

whatever she said,
you can't deny the truth that she offended the government and she still inherit and manages the company.
This is the reality.

In 2007, the relationship turned sour. Danone had accused Wahaha of "secretly operating a set of parallel companies that mirrored the joint venture's operations with virtually identical products and siphoned off as much as $100 million from the partnership." Danone and Wahaha reached a settlement and dissolved their partnership. Zong resigned as Chairman of the joint ventures on 5 June 2007

Zong Qinghou - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Hangzhou Wahaha Group Co. Ltd. is 29.4% owned Zong, 26.4% by the employees and management as represented by Zhejiang Wahaha Industries Joint-stock Co. ("ZHI") (浙江娃哈哈实业股份有限公司), and 46% by Shangcheng District Government.[4] Zong's shares are controlled by British Virgin Islands registered Ever Maple Trading Ltd. (恒枫) through Hangzhou Hongsheng Beverage Co Ltd (杭州娃哈哈广盛投资公司).[9] Ever Maple's legal representative is Zong's daughter Zong Fuli.[10]

Hangzhou Wahaha Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shangcheng District Government - 46% and employees 26 %

Another communist party company.

 

[kenduffy]

Good thing talking with you is that you are explaining your view point and its a western influence approach. You have to think that what is being done from PRC and communist party approach.

If a phd forms a company in PRC and does really well and he piss off the communist party for example deny them control what do you think will happen.

State owned company you agree with what I say ... Case closed.

If any PRC company want to pass wealth on to tending children and the children do not behave like their parents by giving control to communist party what do you think will happen.

That is different from obeying laws and rules in USA, Singapore, uk. Because one can go to court if unfair rules and laws applied and also sue the government if they try impose control without any justification.

The article you posted has a quote that's worth exploring ...

the Hunan Prince Milk Group issues are due to local corrupt government officials, it is a corruption issue, it is not a regular issue

 

[kenduffy]

You mean say that she is the primary owner today. You mean to tell me her father is not the owner right now and given everything to his daughter (who apparently has said some pretty strong words). R u sure.

if you question whether the offsprings of a boss can inherit the company or not, then you can read the following article
民营企业迎来换帅潮 富二代陆续接手父辈产业_财经_腾讯网

yes, it is Chinese ,but you can use google translate to read it
it shows some cases of company inheritance

 

[kenduffy]

Zong Qinghou - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Hangzhou Wahaha Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shangcheng District Government - 46% and employees 26 %

Another communist party company.

sorry, this case is not good, but there are so many private companies and they have been passed by to the second generation.

 

[Compersion]

nearly every Internet company in China has its goal set to do IPO in the USA, and there are thousands of Internet companies in China.
There are tens of or maybe over 100 Internet companies which have done IPO in the US.


Alibaba was started by Ma Yun in 1999, and he is a Chinese national. After founding Alibaba, he notice he need risk investment and thus he resort to softbank and other foreign investment. The direction, business model are all controlled by Ma Yun. There are thousands of Chinese companies are like this, they get investment from foreign risk investment. Alibaba is not special.

I want to see a example of a foreign owned internet tech company that only does business in PRC and is listed overseas.

You have mention control in alibaba. The control is not with jack ma at this moment, and majority ownership is with foreigners like you said. further the plan is to have control with jack ma and "partners". In other words compliance with communist party.

Yahoo sold and wants to sell. SoftBank also will in future. Pretty expensive for jack ma if he was the brain child. R u saying jack ma is like the Steve jobs.

 

[Compersion]

the Hunan Prince Milk Group issues are due to local corrupt government officials, it is a corruption issue, it is not a regular issue

Corruption issue can be control by communist party.

 

[Compersion]

if you question whether the offsprings of a boss can inherit the company or not, then you can read the following article
民营企业迎来换帅潮 富二代陆续接手父辈产业_财经_腾讯网

yes, it is Chinese ,but you can use google translate to read it
it shows some cases of company inheritance

I am using mobile device perhaps you can post it here with translation I am always open to learn more and gain knowledge. Please don't take anything I say to be offensive is to you and anyone. I am only trying to express what I think and am open to reasonable and justified discussion.

 

[kenduffy]

The firms you are mentioned originate from PRC and one can put a strong assumption that they are directed and controlled by the communist party.

I ought to have be more specific please name a PRC company that is foreign owned that has its primary listing overseas.

sina.com
Yinlu FOOD
Harbin Brewery
Little Sheep Group
Red Chilli Group
blabla


[/QUOTE]
A conflict of nationality ...

American listed PRC company.

American primary listed PRC company does that mean the brand is not 100% PRC. The communist party knows the risk.[/QUOTE]

what conflict? conflict against your imagination, right?