Who do Indians like: Russia or USA?

Pick a side, or you may abstain if you cannot pick a side:

  • Russian Federation

    Votes: 43 72.9%
  • United States of America

    Votes: 16 27.1%

  • Total voters
    59
  • Poll closed .

Pratap

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You are calling India artificial entity and praising islamic Extremism.Trying to justify terrorism.so.:gtfo:
I did not praise Islamic terrorism and did not justify it.

However, a nation with different parts having nothing in common is not a real state. Just today, I saw some Telegus, I could not talk with them because of language problem, which kind of country is this where you can not feel" sukh dukh" of your countrymen and can not talk with them even if you desire?

What do I have common with a guy from Kashmir valley ? Accept it we are not a nation( though i do not support break up ) but a continent joined by British.
 

Kaalapani

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I did not praise Islamic terrorism and did not justify it.

However, a nation with different parts having nothing in common is not a real state. Just today, I saw some Telegus, I could not talk with them because of language problem, which kind of country is this where you can not feel" sukh dukh" of your countrymen and can not talk with them even if you desire?

What do I have common with a guy from Kashmir valley ? Accept it we are not a nation( though i do not support break up ) but a continent joined by British.

You have no commonality with any one.You are a specimen.If you cant understand thatz your problem not country's problem.

Indian constitution dose not allow sedation.After 16 march Sedation will be crime and you will be the first to be executed.

DOnt quote me any more You are a mulla in fake name.like I said.

:finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger:


_________________________________
Read about violence of 1950 in East Bengal and then talk about USA propping up Mujahideens, they were always there, muslims are fanatic, full of hatred but they have a cause unlike Indians and so when Soviets started brutality in Afghanistan, it was inevitable that they would make jehadis.

These are your lines mulla sahib.get the ---- off.

_________________________________
 

Pratap

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You have no commonality with any one.You are a specimen.If you cant understand thatz your problem not country's problem.

Indian constitution dose not allow sedation.After 16 march Sedation will be crime and you will be the first to be executed.

DOnt quote me any more You are a mulla in fake name.like I said.

:finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger:


_________________________________
Read about violence of 1950 in East Bengal and then talk about USA propping up Mujahideens, they were always there, muslims are fanatic, full of hatred but they have a cause unlike Indians and so when Soviets started brutality in Afghanistan, it was inevitable that they would make jehadis.

These are your lines mulla sahib.get the ---- off.

_________________________________
You love conspiracy theories. Anyway, be happy with your dream that sedition will be crime after 16 May, you guys think Modi will do that and people will be executed. You will see him talking with Hurriyat, you morons.
 

Kaalapani

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You love conspiracy theories. Anyway, be happy with your dream that sedition will be crime after 16 May, you guys think Modi will do that and people will be executed. You will see him talking with Hurriyat, you morons.

Yep they will talk to Hurriyat with a stick in their hand.

It will take 5 minutes to eliminate Hurrayat leaders.---- off.

Lol those Hurrayat guys are talking to every one.not even a ---- was given.

Kashmir policy is run by army and constitution not politicians.
 

pmaitra

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Not at all, I am one who abused happy. You guys are hilarious.

Check my posting history, I picked up fight with happy and we both were warned to ignore each other.
BTW, this forum allows a man to return with new account.
The first thing that all members should do upon registration is read the Rules and Guidelines.

Please check Rule #1, under §Registration.

Do not mislead people about the rules.
 

ghost

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Why Japan and Russia are India's best friends

If you were to prepare a pithy list of India's top three friends in the world today, it is unlikely that you would name the United States, or the United Kingdom or France or even Germany – though all are having excellent relations with India right now. If you ask me I would stop at two; just two! Japan and Russia, in that order. For the third spot there may be a contest between Israel and the US, though both have their own well determined agendas which do not gel with India's scheme of things – Palestine, Syria and Iran as far as Israel is concerned and a whole lot of issues, not just China and Pakistan, when it comes to the US. The US may ostensibly win the race for the number three slot in my list of India's three best foreign policy partners for the simple reason that it is the sole superpower of the world and this status of Washington is unlikely to be challenged for the next couple of decades at least. But then partnering with the US is like running an egg-in-spoon race. The race itself is full of edge-of-the-seat excitements and the outcome is always tentative.

Moreover, with the US there is always another risk. You never know when you are an esteemed partner and when you become a liability. The US-Pakistan relations are an important reality check not just for the Indians but for anyone who wishes to get into the so-called good books of the Americans. The Americans are known to be fast in finding new friends when it suits their national interest and faster in dumping them for the same reasons. Like other major Western powers (read France particularly), the Americans have no qualms in arming India and Pakistan with lethal weapons simultaneously. Business is the sole mantra. The Israelis are more sedate and steadfast as a strategic partner of India but this small, and yet militarily powerful, nation is more like a hot potato for India given the Israeli hatred to countries like Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon which makes it difficult for any ruling party in India in India to handle. Japan and Russia are the only two countries with which India has no ideological or strategic differences. With either of the two India does not have any troublesome issues that contiguous neighbours usually have. India has no boundary dispute with either of them and does not have a chequered past of fighting a one-to-one war with any of the two for the simple reason that India does not share borders with either of these. And yet India is not far from Japan or Russia. Over the past one decade, Japan has climbed up the Indian strategic ladder, thanks to the China factor. In fact, the political proximity between India and Japan can be solely attributed to China's aggressive diplomatic and military posturing. China's increasingly assertive diplomacy and its never-stated but always practiced strategy of weaving a string of pearls around India has been directly proportional to India's tilt towards Japan. But Japan has one more claim to be India's number one friend in today's world. It has been instrumental in silently revolutionizing India's growth story which is visible to the naked eye of the man on the street in India. Japan has emerged as a solid game changer for India in infrastructure growth. No other power on earth has been so pro-actively engaged with the Indians in beefing up the Indian infrastructure like Japan has. Look at the number of ambitious infrastructure projects that the Japanese have not just been financing but also imparting their technical skills to make these happen. Delhi Metro Rail project was the first to have started with the Japanese financial and technical assistance over a decade ago. Now the Delhi Metro example is being emulated by over thirty Indian cities! The upcoming mega projects like the Delhi Mumbai Industrial Corridor (DMIC) and the Delhi Mumbai Freight Corridor are all set to eclipse the Delhi Metro glory in terms of the Japanese financial-technical assistance. The Chennai-Bengaluru corridor is another ambitious project in the impressive bouquet of Indo-Japanese global strategic partnership. Japan has shown to the world how to win the Indian hearts – by stressing on sector-by-sector approach in the Indian infrastructural growth story. So much so that other powers like the UK, France and Germany too have dropped similar hints of focusing on sector-by-sector growth of India. As far as Russia is concerned, the former superpower has had tried and tested strategic partnership with India for decades when the phrase 'strategic partnership' was not even coined. Russia is India's largest arms exporter. Russia has consciously kept the Indian strategic interests in mind and has taken care not to sell arms to Pakistan. This is despite Pakistan trying its best to cozy up to Russia in the recent past. It is not a coincidence that the only two countries with which India has been having an institutionalized mechanism of annual summits are Russia and Japan – with Russia since 2000 and with Japan since 2006. Ironically, the two countries that India is great friends with are deeply suspicious, and even inimical, with each other – Russia and Japan. This provides a wonderful diplomatic opportunity for India as New Delhi can act as a catalyst for improving Russia-Japan ties. Such a move from India is not yet in the public domain but it is a matter of when, not if, that India acts as a bridge between Russia and Japan, even as Moscow and Tokyo are already showing signs of rapprochement.

http://www.firstpost.com/world/why-japan-and-russia-are-indias-best-friends-874793.html
 

TrueSpirit1

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@TrueSpirit1 USSR was an artificial entity and it containing China is a joke.
The only artificial entity I see today is: the PRC superstate. Without USA's role in WWII, Chicoms could never have gained control of territories & nationalities they now do.

China built its nuke bomb by 63 and had a much larger industrial potential.
:lol: Do you when USSR made fusion based so called "hydrogen bombs" & by when did USSR amassed massive fleet of bombers that can travel trans-atlantic to bomb USA to antiquity ? That was much before 63.

By the way, how did the Chinese get their hands on nuke tech. in the first place ?

Coming to Industrial potential:

Looks like you are too much in awe of Chinese toys & mobiles sweeping third-world markets. Industrial potential is not just about consumer electronics & goods.

So, find out, whose investment, technology transfers & skilled manpower laid of foundation of a China that has some semblance of modern infrastructure & latest farming techniques.

It was USSR's largesse that transformed the bamboo economy. That was the 50's & 60's. Even the Chinese acknowledge it.

Coming to last 3 decades, again, find out whose technology, consultancy, capital, & project-management skills have created the Western-standard infrastructure in China ? It is the Europeans all the way.

Now, do you have idea that Soviets were rolling out SSBN & SSN by the dozen every year, at the height of Cold-War ? "Niall Ferguson".Chicoms even today cannot make a decent one worth exporting & have completely relied on Russians for decades.

Hell, the Chicoms could not even make a decent working aircraft engine of their own, even today & continue to buy stuff from Russia & CIS nations, even after 6 decades. What does that tells you about USSR ?

Talk about "industrial potential".:rofl:

USA or Britain did not create Pakistan, it was Islamic refusal to live with polytheist Hindus that was culprit, British would not have made it if Congress did not approve in 1946, blaming british for partition is where Hindu nationalists and secular fanatics come together.
There is word called "fomenting". "Buttressing" is another. Without US connivance & the leverage they had over Atlee administration due to Marshall loans & saving British asses, this voilent unrest was not happening. Read about role of Major Brown & his units in the unified state of J&K & then tell me that US/UK had no hand in any of this. It is USA/UK wily moves owing to which we have lot more than half of J&K state.

Read about violence of 1950 in East Bengal and then talk about USA propping up Mujahideens, they were always there, muslims are fanatic, full of hatred but they have a cause unlike Indians and so when Soviets started brutality in Afghanistan, it was inevitable that they would make jehadis.
Obviously, the religion itself espouses violence & bloodshed. But who is it that props, instigates, equips, trains & directs the insurgency ?

USA all the way, in unholy nexus between UK,Saudi, Isreal, China & co.

USA did ignore nuke transfer to Pak by China but then that is easily matched by USSR supplying arms to China in early 50s.
There is a difference between arming an existential nemesis (who can be cut into pieces by Indian forces on any given day; if not for Chicom supplied nukes under US patronage) & arming a rival who has already whipped our ass even without nukes & could have done much worse, if not for acclimatization & extended supply-line issues.

NE states are fanatic christians
Study the journey before jumping the gun. Where does the money comes from ? CIA & MI6 roles, etc.

US was not there when Syrian christians betrayed the king of Calicut and asked help from Vasco De Gama.
Who blames US for this ?

But, US itself was founded on principle of faith in "Holy Cross". The so-called "pilgrims" who laid the seed of US were all fanatic zealots, who placed faith over state in England. Hence, were prosecuted & driven out.

Finally, USA is responsible for Indians living in free country, if it had not dismantled British empire and had promised aid to British in case of their war with India, we would have still been ruled by British till today. You can live in your dream of "SC Bose freeing India or Indian army was rebellious" thing. If British could defeat Germans and Japanese, to think that they feared Indians who had zero military of their own is nohing but nationalistic stupidity.
Hahaha....joke of the millennium.

Can only advise you to read about European history, their economic decline & the WWII. Look up to "Niall Ferguson".

You know I enjoy debates done in civil manner so feel free to refute me without abusing as I have touched raw nerves of Indians by telling the truth.
Anyone can clearly see you have no idea about WWII, British Indian Army & the world between 1918-1963. "Your version of truth" is based on hearsay, half-baked & amateur theories, which I can only pity. I mean, I expected you to be well-read but looks like your specialization is limited to a different era, altogether.

You seriously need to come prepared when delving in topics you have little clue about. Once again, take help from a British who goes by the name "Niall Ferguson".

As of now, you don't have anything worth debating. Your assertions belong to "jokes thread".

Especially, when you start inventing history & re-writing it putting all the historians of the world to shame by saying that:

1) British defeated the Japanese :tsk: What did the USA do then ?
2) British defeated the Germans ? Seriously ? What was the USSR & USA doing then ?

You have just taken the discourse to epic depths of sub-standard fiction.
 
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TrueSpirit1

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@pmitra check this guy is duplicate account of Happy
Indians would have spoken Russian then and even after freedom , There would have been no India, 20 different nations.
@Kaalapani

Pratap is not happy. One is a student while the other earns.

Pratap is just a kid who has read a little too-much history without understanding anything. He himself does not know what he is talking about. So, he says something one-day only to summarily refute it the other day. He is a cornucopia of confused-contradictions & desperate attention-seeker who tries to go against conventional wisdom (even if he has to invent history for that) in order to get some.

Coming to his thread, he is not even qualified to comment on this topic due to lack of ammunition (experience or reading). But, he spews some logic occasionally in other history-related threads. Wars, systems, military history, & Europe are not his cup of tea.

I admit, he is particularly hilarious when he talks about WWII, European history & Indian independence/nationhood.
 
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TrueSpirit1

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This is a very important thread. It is worth while reckoning who had done what for backward India.

Russia and prior to that Soviet Union has been a steadfast friend. It was a two polar world. For some stupid reason Nehru and his leftist colleagues preferred to deal with Russia and rebuked US for Cold War, Cuban crisis and Vietnam War, leave aside countless little wars which US fought in Latin America. Then a few major wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

But other than Soviet/Russian support in UN Security Council, they had nothing to offer. India needed massive economic aid Russia had nothing to offer other than guns and a few old technology projects here and there. Hence India had to look for money and technical assistance to US.

Soviet Veto at UN kept Kashmir slipping out of India's hand. But none of these vetoes were worth anything if it came without developmental aid.

Now let us see how US dealt with India.

1. The rogue duo of John and Allen Dulles ridiculed India for everything in fifties. Pakistan was there favourite country for economic and military aid.

2. During height of El Niño in 1965/67 when India's farm output took a serious hit, US shipped 10 million tons of grain to stave off hunger.

3. During 1962 Chinese invasion John F Kennedy sided with India and told Chinese to turn back. India began to appreciate US more, but that was not to be.

4. That massive military assistance US provided to Pakistan was used by them in 1965. Luckily that highly advanced weaponry was outside the technical capability of Pakistan. Pakistan failed and India rejoiced.

5. In 1971 the greatest disservice to India was done when during height of Bangladesh War, US rushed nuclear equipped seventh fleet to Bay of Bengal to beat up India.

6. Later US after 1971, a bit dismayed with their client Pakistan, increased economic aid to India via World Bank and IMF etc. a special grouping of Aid India Club was created . It channeled huge amount of aid including farm aid to India. In ten years India was food surplus. It imported some but exported equal amount.

7. With Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, India was alarmed. Pakistan was again a favoured nation for military assistance. This alarmed India and it turned to Soviet Union for cut rate guns and fighters.

8. Two Clinton's (President Clinton and his wife Hillary Clinton) we're the worst from India's point of view. President Clinton had China focus for FDI and development and Hillary Clinton, although always smiled at you but stabbed in the back during her stint as Secretary of State from 2008-12. India wished to be considered as a candidate for FDI on a massive scale but President Clinton would have none of it under one pretext or other. India continuously reminded them that you were giving too much assistance to china. The latter had killed 30,000 US service men in Korean War and were still the enemy. Instead Clinton wished India to be subservient to China. The famous words from US think tank "road for improvement of India and US relations passes thru Peking". During this period Of 1991 to 2004, China received $500 billion in FDI to build their factories and infrastructure, India received $50 billion.

10. President Bush (jr) era saw some understanding of India and FDI and FII flow was increased but not much, although Indo -US nuclear deal could spur some investment. Thanks to Hillary Clinton, all gains were sabotaged while she smiled at you. The Indo-US Nuclear deal went to the back burner on one pretext or other.

11. Nit picking by US on Indian policy in the Indian Ocean region has been used by left over Hillary Clinton friends in the State a Department to sabotage Indo-US relations. It resulted in arrest of an Indian diplomat in New York on flimsy grounds. India could arrest US diplomats on the same grounds in India but India refrained.

With all it's short comings US is the only country which could provide you a sum of $500 billion in FDI. This will be overriding conditions on all small and big issues. Just as China temporarily walked into US camp and gained massively, India has to find ways and means to reach out to US. The new government could help.

Russia can neither provide this kind of aid nor is willing. After the fall of Soviet Union they have become stingy friends. They overcharge in every arms and ammunition they supply. They massively over charged in refurbishing of India Aircfraft carrier. It is pity.

In the end; Russia is a penniless friend. It has nothing to offer. Hence the choice will still fall on US. We have to settle with them in the same way as China settled with them to make economic gains.
While the post is readable prima-facie, it has categorically ignored the fundamental commercial & security dynamics of Central Asia, SCO, emerging geo-political realities (shale-gas, Arab Spring, Maidan, Shia-Sunni conflict, petro-dollars, Syria, Iran etc.), clout of Russia among some CIS nations, changes in US geo-political interests & its relative decline in statue/leverage vis-a-vis PRC, US leadership deficit w.r.t Russia, the permanent shared threat of Islamic extremism & several other shared interests between India & Russia.

Also, the single-most important angle of comprehensive nation security, i.e. "energy security" was completely ignored & Russia was referred to as a "penniless friend" notwithstanding the numerous factors that make India & Russia natural complementary allies; which was what made the post overall "shallow", if you will. A deeper analysis of these angles would help.
 

thakur_ritesh

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None, I am more business like. Both have something to offer, and I would purely look to extract what best the two can offer, I have no emotional leanings for any.

USA provides us with a bigger playing field in today's context, this is a pure need based partnership, and with eroding power structure for the US, we are decently well placed to leverage from the emerging situation, and their need for us further increases with the rise of a bully China.

Russia balances out this partnership with the US. Russia in today's context is an after thought, if not the US, there is Russia to fall back on. That said, Putin's Russia is a very refreshing emergence, and his being a toughie furthers our agenda.

Anyway, our interests would have been best served with China, but the fools there do not quite get it. China could easily go on to be the biggest ever hegemonic power ever, provided they let go off the land grab ambitions had have harboured for long. If they give up today, and have all the US' allies by their side in the region, surrounding their neighbourhood, with India and Russia alongside, which would be a massive catch, China from there on can truly look to dominate and challenge the US, and in their backyards, but that is way too much for thinking, let alone asking!

If I was to make a one sided choice, it would have to be the US, for the sheer reason of opportunities they can offer, but the biggest give with the US is, they have always been interested in a weaker leadership, keen to toe their line, and we have for long suffered because of weak leaderships by now, so we need strong leadership which should have the ability to force the point on the US. At least our bureaucracy is better off than our political leadership, and they showed that nicely with the Devyani case.

@pmaitra you haven't given the option of none.
 
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PredictablyMalicious

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Btw how many trillions has India lost to Russian backed socialism over the past few decades? Does anyone know how to come up with a number?
 

pmaitra

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Please focus on the topic, and keep the discussion serious.
 

amoy

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I'd rather see this through a multipolar prism, be it for India or for China.

Dominance of either is no gospel for other laymen. Like in energy sector, American to start shale gas fracking and export shall be welcomed to break any monopoly and keep prices down. In the same vein for arms trade competition shall be encourage (esp. for a sheer importer like India). And in geopolitics we've seen enough in the aftermaths of UNIPOLAR primacy without check and balance, such as Iraq, Libya (where China had to evacuate 30,000 expatriates), and most recently Syria.

Whatever is good for evolution to a MULTIPOLAR world shall be "liked" and encouraged IMO, beneficial for other promising contenders to have a say. The reverse of it shall be "disliked", meaning squeezed space for others.
 

Razor

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@Kaalapani

Pratap is not happy. One is a student while the other earns.

Pratap is just a kid who has read a little too-much history without understanding anything. He himself does not know what he is talking about. So, he says something one-day only to summarily refute it the other day. He is a cornucopia of confused-contradictions & desperate attention-seeker who tries to go against conventional wisdom (even if he has to invent history for that) in order to get some.

Coming to his thread, he is not even qualified to comment on this topic due to lack of ammunition (experience or reading). But, he spews some logic occasionally in other history-related threads. Wars, systems, military history, & Europe are not his cup of tea.

I admit, he is particularly hilarious when he talks about WWII, European history & Indian independence/nationhood.
I suspected this, his posts show that he has a wavering/unstable mind. I have seen him contradict his words on some of the threads on the forum, but I simply don't have the patience to point it out. :(
 
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