Turkey shot down Russian Su 24

[Razor]

1. The US does have the risk of racial violence but I do not think it will result in separatism. Not yet.
2. Large volumes can be sent over land as well. Transporting goods over trains is always more convenient than via ships. That is what I think. Many cities have flourished at trade junctions far away from the seas.

1. We'll have to wait till whites are a minority
2. But still they pale in comparison to coastal cities.
Anway that's what i think at least.

 

[pmaitra]

Are you sure?

What if turkey says it is at war with say the Kurds, or any other bogeyman.
Then declares a state of war; and declares the bosporus closed for military vessels so as not to escalate situation etc.
So now russia is not at war with turkey but still straits got closed.

Isn't that possible?

If Turkey says it is at war with the Kurds, it can block Kurdish naval vessels (if there is any), but it cannot block Russian naval vessels.

 

[Razor]

If Turkey says it is at war with the Kurds, it can block Kurdish naval vessels (if there is any), but it cannot block Russian naval vessels.

I don't think this is true because there are no such rules.
And if in the situation i previously mentioned in the earlier post, russia decides to force its way throught the turkish straits, it will be considered an act of war by russia on turkey.

EDIT: There you go from the article you cited

All Black Sea powers not at war with Turkey can send naval ships as per the Montreux Convention. If Turkey closes it, it means Turkey is at a state of war, and can be interpreted as Turkey declaring war on Russia.

Turkey was authorised to close the Straits to all foreign warships in wartime or when it was threatened by aggression; additionally, it was authorised to refuse transit from merchant ships belonging to countries at war with Turkey.

In April 1982, the Convention was amended to allow Turkey to close the Straits at its discretion in peacetime as well as during wartime.

 

[Akim]

If Turkey says it is at war with the Kurds, it can block Kurdish naval vessels (if there is any), but it cannot block Russian naval vessels.

According to the agreement of 36 year, Turkey may close the Straits to third countries, if it threatens its national security.

 

[Cadian]

Are you sure?

What if turkey says it is at war with say the Kurds, or any other bogeyman.
Then declares a state of war; and declares the bosporus closed for military vessels so as not to escalate situation etc.
So now russia is not at war with turkey but still straits got closed.

Isn't that possible?

If Turkey closes straits for Russian ships, then Russia closes gas flow through Blue Stream gas pipeline.

 

[pmaitra]

I don't think this is true because there are no such rules.
And if in the situation i previously mentioned in the earlier post, russia decides to force its way throught the turkish straits, it will be considered an act of war by russia on turkey.

EDIT: There you go from the article you cited

Ok, so that means Turkey can close it citing war with some XYZ state. Interesting. What would happen then? I think the Russians will just send a few missiles and flood both sides of the Bosphorus and Dardanelles.

Basically, hand over Russia to Vladimir Zhirinovsky.

Anyway, I think @Cadian gave a better answer.

 

[Razor]

If Turkey closes straits for Russian ships, then Russia closes gas flow through Blue Stream gas pipeline.

Of course, russia can.

But you will have to read the flow of posts to get at what I'm tryying to say: which is something like, US is cornering russia on all fronts wrt syria. And this is not just about what turkey will do/not do.

Russia better come up with some sound strategies.

 

[Akim]

Ok, so that means Turkey can close it citing war with some XYZ state. Interesting. What would happen then? I think the Russians will just send a few missiles and flood both sides of the Bosphorus and Dardanelles.

The British in 1915 was thinking also.

 

[Razor]

1. Ok, so that means Turkey can close it citing war with some XYZ state. 2. Interesting. What would happen then? I think the Russians will just send a few missiles and flood both sides of the Bosphorus and Dardanelles.

3. Basically, hand over Russia to Vladimir Zhirinovsky.

Anyway, I think @Cadian gave a better answer.

1. This is probably because the bosporus never exceeds 24 nautical miles in width, hence turkish territorial waters.
2. Which is what i was saying earlier; this will be seen as "russian aggression" And it will be a carnival in the western media.
3. He is only interested in washing his boots in indian ocean, not mediterranean. Ok that's my sense of humor. I know, weak.

 

[Screambowl]

Of course, russia can.

But you will have to read the flow of posts to get at what I'm tryying to say: which is something like, US is cornering russia on all fronts. And this is not just about what turkey will do/not do.

Russia better come up with some sound strategies.

US is silent over this issue. They are just asking turkey to divert Russia'S attention from IS to Russia Turkey crisis. Putin is clever and will not fall for such distractions.
They will do it, but after controlling the situation in Syria

 

[Cadian]

Of course, russia can.

But you will have to read the flow of posts to get at what I'm tryying to say: which is something like, US is cornering russia on all fronts. And this is not just about what turkey will do/not do.

Russia better come up with some sound strategies.

So far strategy seems to be in breaking US game in the surrounding regions and buying time to prepare.

In US-seized Ukraine it's taking Crimean bridgehead and scrapping the country's military resources in Donbass conflict.

In Syria it's supporting Assad and deterring Islamists' expansion.

These all buys time.

 

[pmaitra]

US is silent over this issue. They are just asking turkey to divert Russia'S attention from IS to Russia Turkey crisis. Putin is clever and will not fall for such distractions.
They will do it, but after controlling the situation in Syria

The US was also silent when Turkey was bombing the Kurds, and has reportedly killed a few US citizens in the process. The US might be a great power, but it still needs to helplessly watch its citizens killed, for strategic benefits.

 

[pmaitra]

So far strategy seems to be in breaking US game in the surrounding regions and buying time to prepare.

In US-seized Ukraine it's taking Crimean bridgehead and scrapping the country's military resources in Donbass conflict.

In Syria it's supporting Assad and deterring Islamists' expansion.

These all buys time.

I agree with you. It seems so to me as well.

I still think the long term strategy should be to oust the Dollar as the international currency for trade. Kill the Dollar and the US will become like what the UK is today.

 

[Razor]

So far strategy seems to be in breaking US game in the surrounding regions and buying time to prepare.

In US-seized Ukraine it's taking Crimean bridgehead and scrapping the country's military resources in Donbass conflict.

In Syria it's supporting Assad and deterring Islamists' expansion.

These all buys time.

Yes, russia is making some good moves. But some people here are getting kinda overconfident. So listen, all i'm saying is the US/Uk combo is not something you take lightly.

 

[Akim]

I still think the long term strategy should be to oust the Dollar as the international currency for trade. Kill the Dollar and the US will become like what the UK is today.

Besides China nobody is able.
...............................................

 

[pmaitra]

Yes, russia is making some good moves. But some people here are getting kinda overconfident. So listen, all i'm saying is the US/Uk combo is not something you take lightly.

Exactly the reason why I posted this article. We wish Russia to come out as the victor, and we wish to point out the possible vulnerabilities that Russia might have.

 

[pmaitra]

Besides China nobody is able.
...............................................

I agree. PRC is the most capable entity to kill the Dollar, but with Russian help, it can make it quick.

 

[pmaitra]

Off topic comment for @Cadian, @Akim, and @gadeshi.

Our PM Modi is making sure there is no "cookie-distributor" in India. Check this out: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ts-by-us-officials-despite-warmer-ties.74017/

 

[Akim]

I agree. PRC is the most capable entity to kill the Dollar, but with Russian help, it can make it quick.

We should not overestimate the economic power of Russia. China does not want the collapse of the dollar.

 

[Cadian]

Yes, russia is making some good moves. But some people here are getting kinda overconfident. So listen, all i'm saying is the US/Uk combo is not something you take lightly.

This clearly won't be a walk in the park.